Touring/AT NSers...

jblaskiAs someone who works on a medic engine in a large career fire department, with one of the highest save percentage in the country right now, that is not good advice. Please don't listen to it. Hands-only CPR is designed for the average joe citiczen who is too stupid/scared to do real CPR. Not carrying a mask to save space is absurd, especially as a patroller. They're take up the same space as a golf ball.

A golf ball?! no way dude. Try a pack of 3 maybe 4 and your close. I've seen people have it caught in the back of chairlift cross bar twice! and the patroller bullwheeled! We have ski doos, little plastic breath shields that are just a barrier and not a mask that work totally fine. But, please, try and play me out some more and chastise me for not being responsible!

Also, because I think it's lame you're trying to call me out, we have 02 packs, nrb, cannula, bvm, and cpr masks at the top of every lift, all over the property. There's nothing even sort of not ok about me not keeping a CPR mask in my vest. Only people I know that do are volunteers who also happen to have 48 types of bandaid too.

You think everyone touring should carry a CPR mask? Ok, that's fine I guess. I'd say take a little more beef jerky instead.

P.S. bragging about save rates or whatever is pretty tacky

I'm from BC and I love touring in USA ski vacation destinations first before going out of the country.

jblaskiAs someone who works on a medic engine in a large career fire department, with one of the highest save percentage in the country right now, that is not good advice. Please don't listen to it. Hands-only CPR is designed for the average joe citiczen who is too stupid/scared to do real CPR. Not carrying a mask to save space is absurd, especially as a patroller. They're take up the same space as a golf ball.

casualA golf ball?! no way dude. Try a pack of 3 maybe 4 and your close. I've seen people have it caught in the back of chairlift cross bar twice! and the patroller bullwheeled! We have ski doos, little plastic breath shields that are just a barrier and not a mask that work totally fine. But, please, try and play me out some more and chastise me for not being responsible!

It's been a while since I recerted my CPR, but these sorts of differing opinions are what I find so confusing.

On one hand, I feel like the no breaths thing is just some Heart Association initiative to get people to actually do CPR, when that's not a huge barrier for me. On the other, if it truly doesn't matter to give breaths, then I'll save the pack space.

casual, could you speak to this distinction a bit more? I'm all ears here.

LiteratureIt's been a while since I recerted my CPR, but these sorts of differing opinions are what I find so confusing.

On one hand, I feel like the no breaths thing is just some Heart Association initiative to get people to actually do CPR, when that's not a huge barrier for me. On the other, if it truly doesn't matter to give breaths, then I'll save the pack space.

casual, could you speak to this distinction a bit more? I'm all ears here.

the last cpr class i took said that they had stopped teaching the breath technique of cpr because the average joe couldnt do the correct technique and that it was an outdated method, generally didnt provide much more of a save rate. didnt give me a ton of info based on why not.

LiteratureIt's been a while since I recerted my CPR, but these sorts of differing opinions are what I find so confusing.

On one hand, I feel like the no breaths thing is just some Heart Association initiative to get people to actually do CPR, when that's not a huge barrier for me. On the other, if it truly doesn't matter to give breaths, then I'll save the pack space.

casual, could you speak to this distinction a bit more? I'm all ears here.

All I can really base my information on is my training (which is EMT and standard American Heart Assoc cert,) and the fact that I am in a family of nurses and I work around paramedics with whom we do our "continuing education" with, but also the kind of people who call me over to look at an EKG and discuss shapes of someone's rhythm, and why he was concerned. I am a 4th year patroller in CO, I have been a primary rescuer in 2 back country avalanches, one of which with 5 fatalities and extensive review, case study, etc. I've also been involved in (giving compressions, using an AED, using a 12 lead) 3 other instances of all hands on deck CPR, chopper go, holy shit. So, my experience is limited, particularly compared to people I work with, but also compared with I'd imagine a seasoned ambulance crew in Aurora, or Philly or something.

When I got my cpr cert, I was taught 30 compressions offset by two breaths.

Two years ago, our 20 year in paramedic did a CE and went over a case study of a woman who cored. The moral of the story was that we were to give AT LEAST 200 compressions before even thinking about breathing, and that in single rescuer cpr to just forget it. The thinking is that there is ample oxygenated blood in the body to prevent tissue death or infarc or whatever, as long as blood continues to move throughout the body due to effective compressions at the right rate. I want to say that they also found that it was so common to incorrectly open the airway upon giving breaths in a dynamic environment that the utility in those breaths vs effective compressions is limited, but maybe I made that up. So, we have been coached as a unit to focus on effective compressions, lots of them.

In none of the handful of life or death situations in that professional context I've been in (so not just my patrol, 3 different department medics from the greater Denver area, Summit SAR, Alpine SAR....think that's it, can't remember) has anyone produced a cpr mask in order to rescue breathe. In the two instances where the rescue was taking place in a trauma/iso room, breaths were given with a bag valve mask (so, not a pocket mask where you breathe into it, but a big rubber ball you squeeze) but only after x amount of minutes and after cpr was ongoing for maybe something like ten minutes already, IV started, first round of epi in, 12 lead analyzing rhythm, etc.

Long story short: If we have lots of hands, of course someone will be on breaths (but never with a personal shield or with a "golf ball sized mask" (which I've personally not seen...doesn't mean they aren't out there), but that's more a function of the luxury of help, and less about what has been stressed to me in training.

On the topic though, I still personally think it's not very crucial to pack a cpr mask because I don't think it's much value added in your pack. Yes, it forms a tighter seal and is easier to use than nothing, but there's a lot of things that I think that volume would be better spent on.

Maybe I'm cynical but fuck...has there ever been an instance...ever...of non-professionals (or even professionals!) managing to locate, uncover, assess, treat (meaning they're pulseless and breathless) and transport a travel partner to higher care alive?

I'm saying, has there ever been a time where someone "died" in the back country and through CPR they were either revived and/or kept viable long enough to be flown out or transported out? Maybe there has been, but I don't know....

Hey, if someone has a mask, I'm not going to scoff and roll my eyes, so if I came across that way, i apologize, i was a little drunk and fired up last night. I'm just not going to pack one in a touring environment. I'm also not going to bring an AED, a backboard, epinephrine, morphine, etc.

Maybe from here on out I'll start touring with my breath shield ;).

Sorry for the derail, and sorry for getting all defensive. I know different people are taught different things, and protocols are different everywhere.

Drail... go on....

This was purely recreational, not doing CPR hahaha

I just want to say that I fucking love the elevated level of discussion in this thread. Anywhere else you're likely to see some seriously stupid arguments, here... Well, here if people are disagreeing it's about something pretty serious if not life-threatening, and people really talk it out at length and explain the hell out of themselves.


I fucking love that. Cheers to all of you.

casualAll I can really base my information on is my training (which is EMT and standard American Heart Assoc cert,) and the fact that I am in a family of nurses and I work around paramedics with whom we do our "continuing education" with, but also the kind of people who call me over to look at an EKG and discuss shapes of someone's rhythm, and why he was concerned. I am a 4th year patroller in CO, I have been a primary rescuer in 2 back country avalanches, one of which with 5 fatalities and extensive review, case study, etc. I've also been involved in (giving compressions, using an AED, using a 12 lead) 3 other instances of all hands on deck CPR, chopper go, holy shit. So, my experience is limited, particularly compared to people I work with, but also compared with I'd imagine a seasoned ambulance crew in Aurora, or Philly or something.

When I got my cpr cert, I was taught 30 compressions offset by two breaths.

Two years ago, our 20 year in paramedic did a CE and went over a case study of a woman who cored. The moral of the story was that we were to give AT LEAST 200 compressions before even thinking about breathing, and that in single rescuer cpr to just forget it. The thinking is that there is ample oxygenated blood in the body to prevent tissue death or infarc or whatever, as long as blood continues to move throughout the body due to effective compressions at the right rate. I want to say that they also found that it was so common to incorrectly open the airway upon giving breaths in a dynamic environment that the utility in those breaths vs effective compressions is limited, but maybe I made that up. So, we have been coached as a unit to focus on effective compressions, lots of them.

In none of the handful of life or death situations in that professional context I've been in (so not just my patrol, 3 different department medics from the greater Denver area, Summit SAR, Alpine SAR....think that's it, can't remember) has anyone produced a cpr mask in order to rescue breathe. In the two instances where the rescue was taking place in a trauma/iso room, breaths were given with a bag valve mask (so, not a pocket mask where you breathe into it, but a big rubber ball you squeeze) but only after x amount of minutes and after cpr was ongoing for maybe something like ten minutes already, IV started, first round of epi in, 12 lead analyzing rhythm, etc.

Long story short: If we have lots of hands, of course someone will be on breaths (but never with a personal shield or with a "golf ball sized mask" (which I've personally not seen...doesn't mean they aren't out there), but that's more a function of the luxury of help, and less about what has been stressed to me in training.

On the topic though, I still personally think it's not very crucial to pack a cpr mask because I don't think it's much value added in your pack. Yes, it forms a tighter seal and is easier to use than nothing, but there's a lot of things that I think that volume would be better spent on.

Maybe I'm cynical but fuck...has there ever been an instance...ever...of non-professionals (or even professionals!) managing to locate, uncover, assess, treat (meaning they're pulseless and breathless) and transport a travel partner to higher care alive?

I'm saying, has there ever been a time where someone "died" in the back country and through CPR they were either revived and/or kept viable long enough to be flown out or transported out? Maybe there has been, but I don't know....

Hey, if someone has a mask, I'm not going to scoff and roll my eyes, so if I came across that way, i apologize, i was a little drunk and fired up last night. I'm just not going to pack one in a touring environment. I'm also not going to bring an AED, a backboard, epinephrine, morphine, etc.

Maybe from here on out I'll start touring with my breath shield ;).

Sorry for the derail, and sorry for getting all defensive. I know different people are taught different things, and protocols are different everywhere.

Wow. Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for, and clarifies the questions I had.

In many cases, the places I go are really far out there, and doing CPR isn't going to do much anyway. Which is depressing--but realism is more important here.

Planning to do a WFR in January, which should give me a few more ideas and some perspective about these sorts of things. But it's really nice to get such great advice in here. Thanks y'all.

Huck_NorrisI just want to say that I fucking love the elevated level of discussion in this thread. Anywhere else you're likely to see some seriously stupid arguments, here... Well, here if people are disagreeing it's about something pretty serious if not life-threatening, and people really talk it out at length and explain the hell out of themselves.


I fucking love that. Cheers to all of you.

Amen.

Scary snowpack is scary.

https://vimeo.com/113297298

Went out to K-country yesterday to check things out. Mt. Black Prince trail head. Car said -34 in the parking lot. Snow pack was obviously super sketchy, pretty much every step we took it collapsed and sometimes for 100+ feet. Easy to remote something. Tons of natural activity. Just stuck to low angle tight trees, snow was soft and deep, but still many early season features such as bushes/deadfall/etc... Hopefully it all consolidates into a good solid base this week!

I'll jump on the 'worry more about chest compressions than breaths' side.

The reason CPR courses say 30-2 is to give people a break from the compressions, because most people are not fit enough to give continuous compressions for how long you really should be.

200 to start sounds about right.

casualI'm saying, has there ever been a time where someone "died" in the back country and through CPR they were either revived and/or kept viable long enough to be flown out or transported out? Maybe there has been, but I don't know....

April 1st 2014 Elfin Lakes rescue in Garibaldi Provincial Park.

A 20 year old girl fell into a tree well and was found in it the next morning. When the bystanders finally chipped her out from the tree well, she had no circulation and wasn't breathing and died from hypothermia. The bystanders started performing cpr on her and attempted to warm up her body, SAR with ALS showed up and CPR was performed on her as well as AED shocks and epi. She was still dead in field but was airlifted out to Vancouver airport and amublanced to vancouver general. After warming up her body to 35 degrees she came back to life. Bystanders and SAR performed cpr on her for over 4 hours and they kept pumping enough blood to her vital organs and she made a full recovery.

So moral of the story: if you are cold then have cardiogenic failure you can be brought back to life. If you have cardiogenic failure then become cold you won't be able to be brought back to life.


Source: attended a presentation by a member of the north shore SAR whole was the responding ALS to this situation, very informative and interesting. Some new studies will be made available in a few months based on the research from this case.

schismApril 1st 2014 Elfin Lakes rescue in Garibaldi Provincial Park.

A 20 year old girl fell into a tree well and was found in it the next morning. When the bystanders finally chipped her out from the tree well, she had no circulation and wasn't breathing and died from hypothermia. The bystanders started performing cpr on her and attempted to warm up her body, SAR with ALS showed up and CPR was performed on her as well as AED shocks and epi. She was still dead in field but was airlifted out to Vancouver airport and amublanced to vancouver general. After warming up her body to 35 degrees she came back to life. Bystanders and SAR performed cpr on her for over 4 hours and they kept pumping enough blood to her vital organs and she made a full recovery.

So moral of the story: if you are cold then have cardiogenic failure you can be brought back to life. If you have cardiogenic failure then become cold you won't be able to be brought back to life.


Source: attended a presentation by a member of the north shore SAR whole was the responding ALS to this situation, very informative and interesting. Some new studies will be made available in a few months based on the research from this case.

I want to know what they mean by "full recovery"!

In any case, it really is true- you aren't dead until you're warm and dead.

schismApril 1st 2014 Elfin Lakes rescue in Garibaldi Provincial Park.

A 20 year old girl fell into a tree well and was found in it the next morning. When the bystanders finally chipped her out from the tree well, she had no circulation and wasn't breathing and died from hypothermia. The bystanders started performing cpr on her and attempted to warm up her body, SAR with ALS showed up and CPR was performed on her as well as AED shocks and epi. She was still dead in field but was airlifted out to Vancouver airport and amublanced to vancouver general. After warming up her body to 35 degrees she came back to life. Bystanders and SAR performed cpr on her for over 4 hours and they kept pumping enough blood to her vital organs and she made a full recovery.

So moral of the story: if you are cold then have cardiogenic failure you can be brought back to life. If you have cardiogenic failure then become cold you won't be able to be brought back to life.


Source: attended a presentation by a member of the north shore SAR whole was the responding ALS to this situation, very informative and interesting. Some new studies will be made available in a few months based on the research from this case.

Thats fucking incredible. What a lucky young lady. Thanks for the info. Still, hypothermia is something a little bit different and to that same effect I think there are examples of drowning victims brought back after pretty absurd amounts of time. Someone else said it, they're not dead until they're warm and dead.

I'm surprised that she didn't asphyxiate, must have had a killer air pocket in the hollow of the tree? Or she must've reached the perfect temperature to prevent brain damage? I wonder how long she was covered and without oxygen, and then to make a full recovery?! That's miracle territory right there, everyone must've been blown away by that presentation.

I'd be curious to know how long it took sar to get there with an aed. Hey I said it before anyway...if there happens to be an aed affixed to a nearby tree you might make it ;)

http://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@ecc/documents/downloadable/ucm_317350.pdf

We happened to do cpr refreshers today, and did a multiple choice exam, so naturally google came into play.

I found this link to a pdf that highlights cpr protocol changes (AHA), and it's pretty relevant to what we were talking about.

They've scrapped a lot of the past curriculum, and more than ever are down playing the efficacy of rescue breaths in unresponsive, breathless, pulseless patients. My takeaway is that basically whatever utility that is gained in breaths, is lost, and more, in the loss of quality compressions that otherwise could be performed. On 911 calls, they're not coaching people to breathe, they ask for someone fit and strong to thump a chest until a medic with drugs and a 12 lead shows up.

There's these little "why:" sections for each change, and there's great information (for both layman and professional, and there's a table of contents which directs you to either) as to the science, or to data, etc.

Check it out, it was really a good read and manageable.

Huck_NorrisI want to know what they mean by "full recovery"!

In any case, it really is true- you aren't dead until you're warm and dead.

She was singing 4 hours after being brought back to life and walked out of the hospital a week and half later. Claimed to only have residual chest pain, which is understandable after 4 hours + of 110-150 compressions a minute on your chest.

casualI'd be curious to know how long it took sar to get there with an aed. Hey I said it before anyway...if there happens to be an aed affixed to a nearby tree you might make it ;)

Sorry for the double post, it took about two hours for SAR to get to the cabin/treewell. The reasons for it taking so long to get there was the availability for a helicopter. BC ambulance refused to send an air ambulance because they didn't think it was necessary. So Squamish SAR had to get a heli from Whistler Heliskiing and convert the inside for SAR. It also happened to be a beautiful blue bird so every heli in the coast range was pretty much being used for heliskiing.

here is a really good article on the rescue:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1253982/once-you-commit-to-cpr-you-have-to-stick-with-it-how-christine-newman-was-found-and-kept-alive/

Also, on an unrelated note to cpr, I passed my Canadian Avalanche Association Level 1 today, so when I return from Japan next winter I can do official avalanche control and weather recording in BC/Alberta. Pretty stoked on that. Let's go dig some full profiles haha.

schismSorry for the double post, it took about two hours for SAR to get to the cabin/treewell. The reasons for it taking so long to get there was the availability for a helicopter. BC ambulance refused to send an air ambulance because they didn't think it was necessary. So Squamish SAR had to get a heli from Whistler Heliskiing and convert the inside for SAR. It also happened to be a beautiful blue bird so every heli in the coast range was pretty much being used for heliskiing.

here is a really good article on the rescue:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1253982/once-you-commit-to-cpr-you-have-to-stick-with-it-how-christine-newman-was-found-and-kept-alive/

Also, on an unrelated note to cpr, I passed my Canadian Avalanche Association Level 1 today, so when I return from Japan next winter I can do official avalanche control and weather recording in BC/Alberta. Pretty stoked on that. Let's go dig some full profiles haha.

Really looking forward to reading the article about that rescue, sounds remarkable.

How lucky she was not to asphyxiate before going extremely hypothermic. I wonder if the faceted or rotten or whatever shitty sugary snow lurks in tree wells is the reason she didn't just die outright? Like, did she breathe mostly ok right up until her core temp dipped into the danger zone and so she got oxygen while she needed it, and then because of the extreme cold, her body didn't need more than what was in her blood?

I've read about several drowning victims who have been revived after existing in a walt disney esque state of frozenness, but never someone in an avalanche. Not saying it hasn't happened, just haven't been exposed to it.

Congrats on the Level 1, avalanche control and weather are so fucking fascinating. If you want to feel small in the world, it'll do.

casualReally looking forward to reading the article about that rescue, sounds remarkable.

How lucky she was not to asphyxiate before going extremely hypothermic. I wonder if the faceted or rotten or whatever shitty sugary snow lurks in tree wells is the reason she didn't just die outright? Like, did she breathe mostly ok right up until her core temp dipped into the danger zone and so she got oxygen while she needed it, and then because of the extreme cold, her body didn't need more than what was in her blood?

I've read about several drowning victims who have been revived after existing in a walt disney esque state of frozenness, but never someone in an avalanche. Not saying it hasn't happened, just haven't been exposed to it.

I'll have to agree with that. I've had the "cold and dead" conversation with a close doctor friend of mine. Her assertion is that as long as the temperature, 02 supply AND organ function taper off in parallel, the need and the supply is being still met until function stops, ceasing demand and stress as a result of asphyxiation, etc. If one stops out of unison with the others or ahead of time due to some trauma, panic or shortage etc. and there's a discrepancy along that linear, parallel path, then the likelihood of revival without damage goes down. Obviously fully freezing organs also damages tissues and hurts the chance of a "jump start" as well, so it's all a pretty delicate balance and pretty much just a crap shoot. Obviously it isn't fully understood or we'd be medically suspending people on purpose left and right. That is insane though that she was singing afterwards. Cases like that are pretty important to remember IMO.

NS NEEDS A BC/ TOURING FORUM!!!!

Heading out to K-country again Saturday! Hopefully it's viable to ski some bigger lines.

washington is really blowing it. the freezing rain in the forecast is the closet thing to snow we have had in the past two weeks...

Bakerpowwashington is really blowing it.

.

masterhatinNS NEEDS A BC/ TOURING FORUM!!!!

No to belabor the point, but the fact that this sort of post comes up highlights the fact that just one thread for all things backcountry means that people miss a lot of conversations.

If you look back a page or two, you'll see quite a discussion about this. It's in the cards.

Bakerpowwashington is really blowing it. the freezing rain in the forecast is the closet thing to snow we have had in the past two weeks...

West Kootenays aren't too far off.

Rogers Pass has a base of 1.5M at treeline but it's not the most ideal snowpack and anything below 1800M isn't really skiable. Down in the West Koots proper it's even worse. Kooteany Pass is sitting around 90cm base (stable for now) at 2000M, anything below 1900M isn't really skiable and above you're limited to open smooth areas. Whitewater is 'opening' tomorrow, but it's more just because they feel pressured to open. One groomer, closing down for the week.


There is snow in the forecast sure, but we need a series of proper systems to come through and bring our base up quite a bit and from what I can see, there isn't any proper systems coming through. At least the high pressure is in the process of fucking off as we speak (type?).

I don't wanna make a thread so i'll just post this here.

As a total newbie greenhorn to BC skiing, i was wondering how you guys felt about renting or borrowing gear? My school has a great outdoor club, and they let students rent beacon, probes, and shovels for a couple days all for one price. Finding a setup and some skins isn't an issue, for me, nor is finding a group, but I was just wondering if you guys recommend either buying gear or borrowing/renting some to get your feet wet?

DeebieSkeebiesI don't wanna make a thread so i'll just post this here.

As a total newbie greenhorn to BC skiing, i was wondering how you guys felt about renting or borrowing gear? My school has a great outdoor club, and they let students rent beacon, probes, and shovels for a couple days all for one price. Finding a setup and some skins isn't an issue, for me, nor is finding a group, but I was just wondering if you guys recommend either buying gear or borrowing/renting some to get your feet wet?

Yeah man, it's totally fine. As long as you get a walk through of the beacon and give it a couple practice runs before heading out. If someone is visiting from out of town and wants to come touring they usually end up just borrowing gear from friends. As long as you know how to work the beacon that you are using - that's the most important part.

Does anyone have a mounting template for mfd plates? Pretty desperate here

DrailWest Kootenays aren't too far off.

Rogers Pass has a base of 1.5M at treeline but it's not the most ideal snowpack and anything below 1800M isn't really skiable. Down in the West Koots proper it's even worse. Kooteany Pass is sitting around 90cm base (stable for now) at 2000M, anything below 1900M isn't really skiable and above you're limited to open smooth areas. Whitewater is 'opening' tomorrow, but it's more just because they feel pressured to open. One groomer, closing down for the week.


There is snow in the forecast sure, but we need a series of proper systems to come through and bring our base up quite a bit and from what I can see, there isn't any proper systems coming through. At least the high pressure is in the process of fucking off as we speak (type?).

considering how warm are fall was im not too surprised with the winter so far. really wishing i didnt buy a pass now though. at 1500m we have about 35cm now. and 40 degree temps with moisture all the way through the beginning of next week. we might not even open in december if the weather systems roll through like i think. its fucked

Yup, just got 2 more weeks of work given to me and Not even mad. I'll take the extra cash while I wait this BS high pressy system out. Lake louise is skiing quite well for november right now but its still lake louise.
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/14-day-weather-trend/canada/british-columbia/stewart

that town fascinates me. Apparently only 4weeks of sunshine a year. Massive snowfall amounts and huge glaciated peaks surrounding the area. Seems to even leave shames in the dust for snowfall. May have to head that way and do some exploration soon.

http://images.drivebc.ca/bchighwaycam/pub/html/www/255.html

just look snow at 17meter elevation right now. Then go play on google earth, wear a pair of pants you don't care about.

DeebieSkeebiesI don't wanna make a thread so i'll just post this here.

As a total newbie greenhorn to BC skiing, i was wondering how you guys felt about renting or borrowing gear? My school has a great outdoor club, and they let students rent beacon, probes, and shovels for a couple days all for one price. Finding a setup and some skins isn't an issue, for me, nor is finding a group, but I was just wondering if you guys recommend either buying gear or borrowing/renting some to get your feet wet?

DrailYeah man, it's totally fine. As long as you get a walk through of the beacon and give it a couple practice runs before heading out. If someone is visiting from out of town and wants to come touring they usually end up just borrowing gear from friends. As long as you know how to work the beacon that you are using - that's the most important part.

Borrowing/renting gear isn't much of an issue, insofar as you can use it properly and you have the experience to understand the differences with what you've used before. That means practicing with a new beacon, or making sure the probe isn't one of the horrible designs out there that can easily break when you need it most.

The main caution I'd mention is to avoid feeling like you're good to go in the backcountry because you have the gear. This applies to people who own it too, but at the very least, owning it can constitute a monetary investment in being prepared. There's nothing in your post suggesting that you're about to head for a big day tour in complex terrain with no knowledge, but in the off chance that you haven't considered taking a class or getting learned via some mentors, I needed to throw this in here.

Far more important than owning/borrowing gear are all the things you need to think about, understand, and practice while you're out there, be it companion rescue or reading terrain or what's been going on with the snowpack that season. There's a huge amount of avie education available, and it's the software that makes the hardware of your avie gear useful, whether it's borrowed or owned.

The Left Gully and the Chute look like they may be skiable... Mount Wash Avy Center posted these photos, so I'm gonna try to head up this weekend and hopefully get a few turns. First Tucks run of the season claim?

Check them out

https://www.facebook.com/146459662070326/photos/a.794352460614373.1073741826.146459662070326/794352513947701/?type=1&theater

i was wondering if anyone on here has any experience with touring in the chic chocs. I'm thinking about heading out there this winter but was hoping to get some insight on the conditions and such.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/741962/Revenge-of-the-Powder-Cackle

Things seem to be stabilizing some here, so we got out and played in the trees today.

roach1324i was wondering if anyone on here has any experience with touring in the chic chocs. I'm thinking about heading out there this winter but was hoping to get some insight on the conditions and such.

I spent a week touring the chic chocs last spring and it was some of the best skiing I've ever done.That being said, I was there during a massive snow storm, and a friend of mine had been there the year before when everything was ice and all the cool stuff was untouchable. check out my article here: https://www.newschoolers.com/membernewsread/Hot-Chic-Adventure-Canada

Literaturehttps://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/741962/Revenge-of-the-Powder-Cackle

Things seem to be stabilizing some here, so we got out and played in the trees today.

damnitt im dieing here in wa. if i didnt have soccer id be leaving till march

Things seem to be stabilizing some here, so we got out and played in the trees today.[/QUOTE]


Beautiful, uber jelly, cant wait to get back out....we need some snow in Bozeman

roach1324i was wondering if anyone on here has any experience with touring in the chic chocs. I'm thinking about heading out there this winter but was hoping to get some insight on the conditions and such.

I grew up skiing on the east coast and skied the chic chocs for a week for spring break back in 2001. we were there in april which was great for longer days. We were on pretty shitty gear I had k2 enemys with alpine day wreckers. I know it has blown up a bit since then (there is like cat-skiing and shit) but it was the real deal. It is by far the best skiing on the east coast. I cannot remember the exact names of the different areas we skied, some had long flat approaches and some were car lappable. But I remember Patrollers bowl was legit. In fact a skier died in an avalanche there the winter we went, so you should definitely be comfortable in avvy terrain, although there seemed to be a lot of low-angle options. We stayed in a super cheap waterfront hostel on the Gaspe peninsula and drove into the Gaspesie park each day. I am sure it is different now, but knowing french is super handy. People take pride in not knowing english up there. Do some research, be safe and have a sick trip. One of the gems of the east coast for sure..

Finally got out here in Washington, headed up to Mt. Rainier today.

https://www.newschoolers.com/photo/742002.0/Mt--Rainier-Shred?c=2&o=10

Bakerpowdamnitt im dieing here in wa. if i didnt have soccer id be leaving till march

*cgski*Things seem to be stabilizing some here, so we got out and played in the trees today.


Beautiful, uber jelly, cant wait to get back out....we need some snow in Bozeman

Really hoping that we can dodge this warm wave headed this way--and if we do, come shred. Not too far to Whitefish.

Had to bury a dead porcupine that has been annihilated by coyotes, and in the process dug a hasty pit on terrain that's been well compacted, and the pack is so shitty it's depressing. It's 50% or more utter and total shit. Really reactive wind/sun crust that's inevitably going to a sliding layer because ain't no way shit is bonding to it. Got to learn a bit more about looking at models and orographics and pressure and moisture content which is really cool. Maaaaybe a system moving in next weekend, like late saturday night? Fuck I hope so.

This warm spell might actually be somehow positive, because at least the gradient won't be so extreme throughout. It's so bad that my poles under the basket are completely encased in ice because there's so much water and moisture at ground level. It's pretty unusual to have these consistently warm temps, i wonder if that and the humidity will add up to a less faceted and rotten base? Still lots of 7-8 mm basal facets, it'll be interesting to see what happens to the pack this week.

In good news, we threw a bunch of bombs yesterday (absolutely NO effect....which is sorta scary) and have some terrain opening in the very near future. It feels so fucking good to be back on skis and working instead of swinging a flippin hammer.

Freezing level is going up to 2200M this week in the West Kootenays. Guess we are going to have to wait a bit longer before winter shows up for keeps.

It's warm and dry here in SW Montana, too. I'm heading out to do a little overnighter tomorrow night, to at least get out and make the most of a couple days off. This weather is healing our shitty snowpack a bit, at least, so we might make a go at doing some more mountaineering-oriented stuff. I'd love to make a winter ascent of Mt Chisholm (Hyalite range), since it seldom, if ever, gets climbed in the winter.

dry as a bone in chamonix :( . heading up high on the italian side tomorrow, see what we find, reports of some good snow. winter is so close gaah

Recently knocked off a classic line that has been on my list since I moved to jackson so I thought I would share a quick TR.

Saturday night my buddy hit me up with a picture message saying that the Sliver couloir was in, and had yet to be skied this season. If you've ever driven by GTNP on a sunny day in the winter, you've almost certainly noticed this line. Its easy to spot from the road and is just begging to get skied.

Sunday was forecasted to be quite warm, so we got to the trailhead at 4:00am and started skinning. The moonlight was so bright that we didn't even use headlamps most the way up. Clouds were just barely hanging off the peaks and we could see our line from the trailhead. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to take a long exposure of the scene.

(This was taken on our way out, but even in the dark we could clearly see our line from here)

Around 7:30, we made our way to the top of shadow peak. The sun was starting to rise and we got our first view of the line since we left the trailhead.

(same view, but on our way out)

We switched over and dropped into a short pitch that took us to the apron of the Sliver. As we started the long bootpack, the first rays of light brought comfort to numb hands but also a sense haste.

(line looking a bit more mellow from this angle)

We had hoped that the snow would be protected from the wind in the couloir. On the approach, everything in the trees was light and fluffy. The faces had a finger hard wind slab in most places. Unfortunately as we got into the gut, the snow did not change much. 8 inch blocks of slab knocked off by my partners hiking in front, reminded me that it wouldn't take much to flush us all the way out the bottom.

About 3/4 of the way up we finally ran into the snow that we were fearing. As we started up the final crux rollover, a small pocket propagated out from the boot pack. We were fairly confident in the stability, but with the sun beating straight down on us there was no telling how long it would last. After some team discussion we decided to not go any higher. Being so close to the top made it a tough call, but one I still feel was right.

"Getting to the top is optional. Getting down is mandatory."

We geared up and dropped in. My buddy scoot ripped the shit out of the line.

I barely held it together. This was my first big mission of the year and it was more than apparent I was out of shape. Before I even dropped in my legs were burning. By the time I made it to the bottom they were screaming.

https://www.newschoolers.com/watch/742475.0/Sliver

We slapped some hands and started booting back up the line we skied off of shadow.

Around 10:15 we dropped into the 2000 vert "4 hour couloir". By this point I was two exhausted to care to pull my camera out. I wish I had because the the snow was surprisingly good and the line almost as classic as the Sliver.

We started traversing and made it back to the car around 11:30am, 7 and a half hours after we started.

Here's a map of the route for anyone who's interested:

http://www.hillmap.com/m/ag1zfmhpbGxtYXAtaGRychULEghTYXZlZE1hcBiAgIDAlumyCAw

If you've never used hillmap.com, definitely check it out. Its an awesome route finding tool.

Stats

Start: 4:00am
End: 11:30am
Distance: ~8 miles
Vert: ~4800

^Fuck yeah! Looks like a great day out.

Good on you guys for sticking with your decision.

Just getting my first setup together, its pretty heavy but for now, as i'll only get a few touring days a year until I move, it's my whole big mountain and touring quiver.

ON3P Jeffery 114s and Salomon Guardian 16


newbie question for you all- should I mount them like I mount any other bindings? or whats the standard for mounting touring binders