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Touring/AT NSers...

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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

I've been noticing lately that there are a few people on here who are into touring and earning their turns.  Where are you from, where are you touring and whatchagot for touring setups? 

I'm from mass but tour all over the EC and also when I go west for vaca (usually UT/BCC/LCC).  Mostly in VT along the green spine though while I'm home.  Right now I'm on Whitedot Redeemers quiverkilled for Plum Guides, but my 12/13 ON3P Billy Goat Tours should be on my doorstep by tomorrow- and will be my go-to touring skis for the majority of the season.  My boots are Dalbello Virus Tours with cochise top straps grafted on as well because I hated the stock top bail. 

So what's up with you, oh rando beasts of NS?   

Nov 13 2012 11:28AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
No price yet but I'd say it should go for at least $600-700 conservatively. Any less than that and it'll be a fkn miracle and a total blockbuster, especially if it gets RV certified.



Here is a really nice writeup on it- no mention of cost though.

Dec 5 2013 12:35PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Honestly that overall heel setup of the Vipec is so freakin slick. The toes are cool too but damn that heel setup is so awesome my mind is kind of blown.

Dec 5 2013 12:39PM
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Pudge
Posts: 3718 - Karma: 3,117
Beast toes, Vipec heels? (;
Dec 5 2013 1:17PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Don't you DARE play with my emotions!
Dec 5 2013 1:54PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

Two immediately obvious problems (besides the fact that it's plastic and will break hilariously easily).

1. The stack height is absurd. Makes sense if you're mounting them on 120+mm waist. Does not make sense if you're on Dynaslus or something reasonable.

2. The overall heel design makes it absolutely impossible for any lateral movement in the heel. As a result, the actual elastic travel of the binding is not that different from Dynafit - and the lack of elasticity is the exact problem with the current tech binding paradigm. While the Vipec toepiece has some range because of the independent arms (i.e. the whole purpose of the binding), the fact that the heel has zero pivot basically offsets this. So the "Vipec heel, Beast toe" is actually the worst idea ever, because it would have next to no lateral movement (i.e. the only lateral movement would be supplied at the toe because the Beast toe is on a turntable) and would be basically non-functional as a binding.

Dec 5 2013 2:02PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
JD we're having a magical fantasy, no need to break out the hose :)
Dec 5 2013 2:03PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

Well everyone always gets so worked up about new technology releases and then it's pure disappointment once they actually come out. You can tell just by looking at this thing that it's going to break.

The reality is they basically traded elasticity in the heel for elasticity in the toe, and ended up in pretty much the same place we are already. What this might do is allow for actual DIN release values... and all that means is that North American shops will be more inclined to stock them and mount them, because there's less grey area about someone suing you once they kill themselves on the binding. This is the same reason why Look won't distribute their re-branded Plum Guides they just came out with this year in the USA (well, also the fact they don't have brakes). 

Shops selling more touring gear in North America is bad, not good. If at all possible, all technological improvement should stop immediately. Just like fat skis should've stopped getting better around 2002, before everyone decided they were cool.

Dec 5 2013 2:12PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Well like it or not this isn't just for cool kids anymore, it's an "everybody" thing now. There's no point in holding back so people won't think it's cool as that's just not possible.

I'm with you in the frustrations of imperfect designs and sort-of-advancements, but hey Rome wasn't built in a day either. This is going to be an incremental advancement, not a giant leap forward for mankind resulting in the perfect product the 2nd year the patent expired.


And really I was mostly looking at the no-spin sliding engagement as being pretty cool in conjunction with the climbing bars. Not having to twist that heel would be pretty cool IMO. Sure I'm not a fan of plastic but it's a cool idea nonetheless. Time will tell how it holds up. I'm not totally blown out of the water by any of the new designs but it is absolutely cool to see how each brand is going at the idea of brand diversification and what features they see as important nonetheless.


Dec 5 2013 2:45PM
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Belzebub
Posts: 451 - Karma: 812
Can some bright minds enlighten me on why binding companies dont just start with an alpine heel design when deigning tech bindings? Regular alpine herl+beast toe?
Dec 5 2013 3:13PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
I'm going to go with the short answer and say it's just not possible to have it both ways just yet.
Dec 5 2013 3:15PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
^This.

I imagine the engineering is a nightmare. What may work on paper may not work on a true knee or boot.
Dec 5 2013 3:22PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
Been seeing a lot of photos particularly from the Surface blog of people seemingly touring in the BC by themselves. What do you guys think about this? Is it safe orr???
Dec 9 2013 1:40PM
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Lewisd337
Posts: 79 - Karma: 20
Hey, im in south lake tahoe looking for some Backcountry partners this season.i got MFD's super heavy. wish i spet the extra 100$ on Solomon guardians.

Dec 9 2013 1:47PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
just a thought but usually someone has to take the photo....
Dec 9 2013 1:54PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
It's usually not them, just the view. I was wondering
Dec 9 2013 2:10PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
to answer your question it's not safe and i highly doubt they were out by themselves.
Dec 9 2013 2:23PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Not sure of the pictures you're referring to, but as to your question: of course it's not 'safe'. People do it though. When I first started touring I was super paranoid and wouldn't go anywhere alone and wouldn't explore a new zone unless someone in the group has been there before. After skiing a certain area enough I got more confident with knowing the snowpack, the terrain, and watching some of the older generation go out and do solo laps I started to do so myself.

Since than I have no issues going to new zones with not a lot of beta with a crew where none of us have been there before. I've also moved to an area with much bigger mountains and bigger snowfall so the avalanche danger is real - and I was shocked to see and hear of way more people than I would have thought going out on solo missions. We're talking people going into serious avalanche terrain and skiing gnarly couloirs and big steep bowls solo.

I've always thought it was interesting that when talking avalanche fatalities, very rarely are there incidents that involve a solo ski tourer dying, yet high profile cases where large groups of people all go down are somewhat common. It would be interesting to see a study done on decision making in a solo setting vs a group. Could the complications of a group dynamic make decision making worse than if you were alone? I know that I ski very differently in the backcountry when I am alone vs with a group. If I'm alone and decide to ski a line, I generally get very, very focussed when I drop in, ski fast, avoid exposure as much as I can, and don't stop until I get to the bottom and out of harms way. In certain situations I will ski that way with a group (usually if we can see top to bottom on a run), but when yo-yo'ing is involved sometimes you end up lingering in an area that might not be most ideal, or when with a group I might be more tempted to slash that micro feature even if it's loaded and might pop.

So - is it safe? No. BUT, I think if you were to look at it statistically, you have a higher chance of dying in an avalanche when in a group than by yourself. Take that with a grain of salt though because the stats also say that the more avalanche certs you have, the higher your chance is of getting caught in an avalanche, but the proposal of NOT getting certs isn't really a viable solution.
Dec 9 2013 2:29PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
spent the better part of my adult life roofing aint got a single cert, don't think it makes me any less skilled
most of the peeps that taught /got me into touring have 20+ years no certs. All the knowledge you needs out there payin someone to enlighten you is an option.took this class a couple seasons ago
blew avvy 2 away in both classroom time/knowledge/ probably about 20x the pit/feild work no magic cert though
bet this clueless cough "Athelete" got a cert and the oh fuck my snow stabilty assesment sucks bag
utarded darwinism

solo?
So
LOwer
your risk tolerance ,terrain choices and turn er down a notch
Don't do it a lot and when i do i usually file a flight plan but it is refeshing
tour a lot w/ chicas the say it lowers your odds, less testosterone never hurts
Yo mz Norris sendin in loot for the carylse hut week of jan 12 or whatever that sun is
got spots
good price

Dec 10 2013 1:17AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Wow. Camera, but no beacon or probe. What the actual fuck?!?




Dec 10 2013 9:31AM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
I got friends without any certs as well, but that's not to say they are useless. Besides that, I always have such a hard time reading your posts. Have you ever considered talking in full sentences, with proper grammar, and not talking as if you are using some kind of secret code?
Dec 10 2013 11:10AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Dude you just need to learn Wasangeleese
Dec 10 2013 11:39AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

That kind of shit shouldn't even surprise anyone anymore. But here's my favourite part:

"It was decided that the victim would go first since she was carrying all of her normal avalanche gear. "

Okay, so, hint number 1 that you shouldn't be skiing where you're skiing: it occurs to you that there's a decent chance you might have to use your avalanche gear. Jesus...

Dec 10 2013 12:13PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
It just blows my mind how casual people are about this shit. I know that we should and do expect it, but every time I hear something like that I just facepalm and shake my head. How many people have already died for that GoPro shot or cool facebook profile pic? Shit is getting crazy and people are just making a shitload of excuses for themselves that they shouldn't. I mean hell, we saw it here just a page or two ago- people heading out to get cool pictures and not bringing anything with them.


Shit just scares me. It really does.
Dec 10 2013 12:40PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Also how the photographer had a good vantage point to get shots but never noticed all the old slabs on even lower angle terrain right fkn next to it I have no freakin' idea. Just so much lose...
Dec 10 2013 12:42PM
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cheezeNbacon
Posts: 341 - Karma: 145
just upgraded my bindings on my moment bibbys with tyrolia adrenalins, should be fun. In Bozeman and back at whitefish for december. If anyones down hit me up
Dec 10 2013 12:43PM
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malonius_funk
Posts: 2249 - Karma: 1,500
i'm in bozeman as well. if you ever want to get out let me know!

on another note, mounting my renegades with binding freedom inserts for fks/radical ft's tomorrow. excited to say the least!
Dec 10 2013 1:01PM
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malonius_funk
Posts: 2249 - Karma: 1,500
sorry for the dub post but what are your guys best methods for bending brakes?
Dec 10 2013 1:02PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,965
Just throwing this out there, there are a pair of DPS Wailer 99 with BD ascencions drilled for barons on a certain used gear site right now
Dec 10 2013 1:14PM
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PoLaRpEaK
Posts: 439 - Karma: 555


That ice cave / crevasse at the end looks oddly familiar. Cool video though.
Dec 10 2013 3:13PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
find worthless ski pole. cut in half. use as bending device. that's what my old shop did.
Dec 11 2013 2:45AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
Regardless of snow totals, every winter season gets better here in the Tetons. Stoked to be getting in with Fischer Skis for many more pow missions!

Season Wrap 12/13 from Eric Lovely on Vimeo.

Dec 11 2013 11:03PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
It might be that I'm high but after reading that Avy Report I'm really curious if anybody else has ever noticed the similarities here?
Click for larger image

Click for larger image
Dec 12 2013 1:52AM
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cheezeNbacon
Posts: 341 - Karma: 145
word, likewise!
Dec 12 2013 2:00AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

Here is the victim's account of the story. Have to give her props for putting her name on it and taking responsibility (even if you don't have to give her any props whatsoever for piss poor decision making on the day).

http://amieski.com/2013/12/12/blind-spot/

Dec 12 2013 2:20PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Any props for coming clean are washed away by the fact that it's on her fucking stupid blog.





Dec 12 2013 2:25PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
I dunno, I feel like that fact is kind of offset by the fact that she's super hot.
Dec 12 2013 2:27PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
On a scale from one to Gisele, I give her about a Jen Hudak.


Dec 12 2013 2:32PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
Wait, Mike Rogge was her photographer???
Dec 12 2013 2:53PM
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roach1324
Posts: 215 - Karma: 331
The fact that she said "Checking the area, we didn’t see any visible signs of instability or recent activity" is pretty questionable

was she referring to how up top everything looked fine, or that they had seen the other slide and figured it would be ok

also shes really hot, fuck the haters.
Dec 12 2013 2:57PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
Is she an idiot? Yes. Is she completely to blame? No. Backcountry skiing is a group effort. Evidently they forgot this aspect and decided that since one person said it was good, it was good. Unfortunately, it was not.
Dec 12 2013 3:03PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
I don't think so; it looks like the guy in the foreground of Rogge's pic (the one with the pom hat) is the photographer who went with her to the site of the slide.
Dec 12 2013 3:08PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Yes but moreso IMO for the hotshot photog (Seriously was that Rogge?!??) that got her out there, gassed her up for a cover shot and stood by like a helpless asshole with his dick in his hands as she got swallowed up by a fucking mountain he told her as "the expert" was good to go and a safe spot to shoot.

I like how she made it sound like it was just a simple miscalculation though. "Yep, just forgot to check the blind spot!" More like "rammed a wall because I was texting". Sure, she got caught up in wanting to work with someone famous and had all her gear- but if she was smart she would have walked away after seeing nobody else was the least bit prepared, famous or not.




Dec 12 2013 3:31PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Honestly I don't even care but whoever that was is a fucking class A douchebag.

I remember the last time I was out there, some asshole got buried sending a cornice on a moderate day into a hanging pow field trying to get cool pictures. We skied an adjacent area so we saw exactly where he skied and what he had lined up looked almost worst case scenario and sure enough he got fully buried and would have probably died if a rockstar guide hadn't seen it go down.

I guess my gripe is how bad do you want to get your picture taken? How bad does your blog need those hits? How desperate are you for exposure?!?? I mean seriously people what the fuck? Just stop listening to photographers, it's your ass on the line. Use your head and not your ego guys and gals. Don't get yourself killed for a facebook profile pic or hell even a cover shot- it's just not worth it.



Dec 12 2013 3:41PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

Confirmed it wasn't Rogge - "I was at Alta that day with Amie. She was shooting, I was doing an Atomic ski event. I snapped that pic first thing in the morning. Thankful she's okay and everyone involved is here today."

Dec 12 2013 4:35PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Interesting study on group dynamics and what people will justify as worthy to chase the dragon that is a career in the ski industry.


On a lighter note - my girlfriend switched to skiing from snowboarding last year and finally got herself a proper touring set up for this season. Took her out on her first proper ski tour today. knee deep blower pow - which didn't help her much, but she was a trooper.

Click for larger image

no action shots 'cause, not going to lie, it was a bit of a struggle for her with the case of first day touring blisters and not being used to knee deep pow. She's stoked on going out again though, so that's sweet!
Dec 12 2013 11:44PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
Skied a bit with that asshole and would consider him a friend
one of the humblest bros i know
tour a bit with the rockstar he's a stud and a kook
pretty funny that roogles and a few others know who the protog is but can't betray the pro hoe code
props to her for tellin the story
but serious how could your group interperate the uac report that day, booter through the shit snowpack
not notice and decide to that skiing a n facin 40 degree slope that terminates in a classic terrain trap with known instabilities with neither of your partners havin beacons
then instead of a ski cut you slash your pro hoe turn and stop
what the fuck do they teach in avvy 1 these days perhaps they need a test to make sure your gettin it
cause somebody aint
Dec 13 2013 12:19AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Yeah I remember you said you knew the guys involved. I thought about that line he took a lot skinning up on that trip and it has definitely stuck with me since. Couldn't think of a single good reason to ski it and his photog below wasn't even the guy who pulled him out when it went sour. I guess it's easy to say yes sometimes when shit sounds cool but so much harder or even impossible to deal with the consequence of that yes once you say it. And for what? Scary shit man. Made me glad we had you for sure, the culture of the superbro blogger in search of content at any price scares me to no end and I'm easy to talk into stuff- not to mention there's so much good terrain to ski that's safer, why fuck around?

I dunno I'm just flailing at a speck of a point, don't mind me. :) Just want everybody to get home safe.
Dec 13 2013 9:00AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Dude that is awesome! Nothing like sharing that experience with your SO. Hopefully there weren't too many tears and she is down to stick it out until it's second nature. I've seen that scenario go south in a hurry, she must be an awesome chica!
Dec 13 2013 9:19AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,626
Guardians have been warrantied and are back on my Billy Goats. Time to get back out there and get some BC touring in!
Dec 13 2013 5:04PM
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