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Touring/AT NSers...

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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

I've been noticing lately that there are a few people on here who are into touring and earning their turns.  Where are you from, where are you touring and whatchagot for touring setups? 

I'm from mass but tour all over the EC and also when I go west for vaca (usually UT/BCC/LCC).  Mostly in VT along the green spine though while I'm home.  Right now I'm on Whitedot Redeemers quiverkilled for Plum Guides, but my 12/13 ON3P Billy Goat Tours should be on my doorstep by tomorrow- and will be my go-to touring skis for the majority of the season.  My boots are Dalbello Virus Tours with cochise top straps grafted on as well because I hated the stock top bail. 

So what's up with you, oh rando beasts of NS?   

Nov 13 2012 11:28AM
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shorn860
Posts: 12 - Karma: 12
Not my intention, come on now!  I want to learn more about what the East Coast has to offer.

Did Tuck's last spring and that was something I was curious about afterwards.  Any insight you're willing to PM me would be much appreciated @Huck_Norris
Oct 30 2013 11:05AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
I'm honestly not that knowledgable about the place but just want to reiterate that the consequence of MTW cannot be overstated. Certainly don't want to gas anybody up to go rip it if they're not ready, know what I mean? Def wasn't trying to be a dick about it. If you're all about it though I'd try TGR, lots of peeps I know there ski it pretty regularly.
Oct 30 2013 11:10AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,626
Size and last? I can't find anything on the last
Oct 30 2013 11:43AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

He says they're 28s. Titan ULs are listed as a 102MM last but when I tried them on they sure as hell didn't feel 102mm, more like a standard 100. They weigh a bit less than 1900 grams in the 28 size (dynafit's claimed weights are off; the 27 weighs 1820 grams not 1750). The liner makes up almost 300 grams of that though so if you're swapping to a lighter intuition or something you can probably knock off a bit. 

That's a good deal, Backcountry has them for $500 right now on deep discount (usually 8 something).

Oct 30 2013 12:25PM
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minihef
Posts: 813 - Karma: 781
I didn't read that as him saying that people shouldn't hop turn or sideslip down stuff - but that people should be honest about the style in which they were able to descend something on skis and that skiing needs to catch up with climbing when it comes to there being more focus on how how things are done, not just whether they were done.

Like he says it's a given nowadays in high altitude climbing that reports will say whether an ascent was done with or without oxygen whereas years ago it wasn't even mentioned or thought about. Ie there's been a movement towards the importance of the purity of the line.

Whenever I've read any TRs by Fransson he always talks about the cleanlisness/purity of his descents, how much he had to rappel, if there were sections he had no choice but to sideslip and so I don't think he's being contradictory at all. When it comes down to it he's pretty much stating the obvious:

Skiing a line cleanly & smoothly > skiing a line by any means necessary > not doing the line at all.
Oct 30 2013 2:46PM
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minihef
Posts: 813 - Karma: 781
Touring bindings all have heel risers to keep the angle of the bottom of your ski boot at the optimal angle in relation to the steepness of the slope to make your strides more comfortable and more efficient. The default on most touring bindings is flat which means they're already at the best angle for touring on flat terrain ie flat approaches. The default on the Guardian/Tracker is slightly raised already meaning they're not at the best angle for flat sections ie your heel is already higher than your toes.
Oct 30 2013 2:53PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
this thread is awesome

thanks everyone
Oct 30 2013 3:01PM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
Yes, but skiing is something that is massively dictated by conditions,I mean skiing a 45 degree face smoothly and cleanly with 20cms on consolidated pow with no sluff is not necesarrily harder then hop turning down the same face when its sheer ice/sastrugi the whole way down. I just found he made it sound like if someone would have gone up that SA face and hope turned survival skied down it would have been bad ethics. Nothing wrong with doing that, especially if your someone who say spent a huge amount of your own money to get down there to ski the face and your not going to go back again for years, you'd probably push on the the last 400 feet. Sure he probably made the right call turning around for risk management/safety reasons, but to say that to go up and ski it would not be worth it, it may not be to him, but to other skiers it would and thats not really a question of ethics in my opinion.
Oct 30 2013 3:54PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
He's saying that there's a difference between survival skiing and skiing cleanly and fluidly. There are a hell of a lot of mountaineers-turned-skiers around here who have excellent awareness but just-OK ski skills who will get themselves down some pretty gnarly lines by any means necessary, just to tick that line off their list and claim it to their friends, but to say they "skied" it is questionable. It's kind of an elitist thing but I do agree with him to some extent.

Personally, if it's fun at the time I'm skiing that's all that matters and I get very little satisfaction purely from the "sense of achievement" from skiing something big and technical. "Fun" is a combination of the physical feeling of making turns (including jump-turns), the vibe of the location and the friends I'm with. Yes I could ski more technical lines than I currently do, but if it's not fun, why bother?
Oct 30 2013 4:13PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
posted this on the last page but didnt get a response.

does anyone who has dynafits carry spare parts with them on tours? or have solutions to common issues while in the bc?
Oct 30 2013 4:19PM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
I just find everyone likes to talk about how its all about personal challenges, if its fun its not really about ticking off lines, being the first or doing the hardest thing. But then as soon as someone less skilled or stylish starts doing things that they have done, and that they are very proud off, they start taking offense to it and start complaining about the style or how there doing it.

Personally, I love skiing stuff thats fun, but its also pretty awesome to push myself ski something thats pretty close to my limit, get scared and pull it off. I love the personal challenge, and you know what it is sick to brag to my friends about a cool line I skied, its not the only reason i do it, but i'm not going to try and pretend that its not awesome to point at a badass line from the road and claim I skied it.



Oct 30 2013 4:28PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
Speed riding is the goal. Need to get comfy on a wing and speed flying as well. I almost have everything I need, the rest I can borrow. I'm more excited now that my paragliding friend that didn't care for it that much started speed flying and absolutely loves it so now she wants to speed ride too which makes it way more likely that I'll get to go more since it's her boyfriend that's the instructor. I technically have the option to go a week in Switzerland as well since a large group I know will be there at the same time as me, but I don't think I'll be ready yet. Thrilled regardless. Can't wait to get started. I'm in Huntington Beach till Thursday and going crazy since Mammoth got a bunch of snow and all my friends are already hiking.
Oct 30 2013 4:37PM
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minihef
Posts: 813 - Karma: 781
But he's not saying it is bad ethics if someone sideslips etc, he's just saying it's bad ethics if there isn't honesty or openness about whether they did so or not. He admits in the article that he sideslipped some of that line because he felt the conditions required it and it's a recurring theme in his writings - he always talks about what the conditions were like and how clean his descents were when it comes to sideslipping/ rappelling etc.

Rather than criticising others I think he is basically expressing the internal dichotomy he personally has over trying to ski the hardest lines but also trying to achieve aesthetically pleasing descents and I think that is something almost any skier can relate to. I know i've skied lines where all I cared about at the time was getting down in one piece and then afterwards been disappointed with myself because I think I could have skied them more cleanly.




Oct 30 2013 5:43PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
I'm a little confused..do most people your with touring bindings or hike with ski boots to spots? Or is it a mixed batch?

I'm into hiking and want to start combining skiing with it the few days a year in NY!
Oct 30 2013 6:46PM
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SteezoSaurus
Posts: 2630 - Karma: 2,670
I don't carry spare parts at all, and i really havent needed to. I did break a buckle on my Vulcans but that was due to snowmobiling.
Oct 30 2013 6:48PM
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The_Powtographer
Posts: 43 - Karma: 408
Anyone been up to Alta lately with the new snow the Wasatch got? Brighton was pretty good from the top to about half way today and I can only see Alta being better. Also any good early season zones?
Oct 30 2013 7:24PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
If you want to get anywhere in any reasonable time in soft snow, you're going to need touring bindings and skins.
Oct 30 2013 7:43PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
I'm tracking what you are saying..does anyone hike with ski boots up trails? Or is that just completely wrong? Snow shoes a viable option?

I don't think I'd get enough use with a real touring set up..however, the thought of hiking up mountains to ski down gives me a chubby.

Oct 30 2013 9:36PM
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KittenFactory
Posts: 189 - Karma: 2,288
Alta was pretty good today!

Click for larger image
Oct 30 2013 10:16PM
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minihef
Posts: 813 - Karma: 781
There are two main occasions when people would hike up in boots. The first is on short, popular bootpacks that typically take people from a resort to a close, commonly skied slackcountry area or even a more difficult to reach part of the inbounds terrain. Here traffic is frequent enough that the snow is compacted making the hiking much easier. The other is when the terrain is too steep to use skins and so you have you bootpack up, for example up a steep face or a couloir. Generally speaking on those sort of steep lines you're not even going to try and ski them when there is lots of pow due to avalanche risk and so the snow would usually be firm enough to kick steps in.

Apart from those situations trying to just hike in ski boots is going to get you nowhere - you'll just be wading around in snow and getting nowhere.
Oct 30 2013 10:27PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
Thanks for the response +k 👍
Oct 30 2013 10:30PM
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mvf
Posts: 786 - Karma: 1,581
...holy shit
Oct 30 2013 11:41PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
I know there are n00bs galore on here that should take this as solid beta... but when will NS mature enough that we can talk about bc lines more practically?

Take your avy classes --> Spend years getting to know mountains you love --> Stay safe and shred hard.

I don't do it everyday (unless I'm on Glory or Cody), but I boot up steep shit I ski pretty frequently. This will be my 10th season in the Tetons. Time invested is directly relative to the freedom you feel in the mountains, acquired in large part from scaring the shit out of yourself and understanding the wrath of nature.
Oct 31 2013 12:33AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
This is probably a good time to remind people of the BC cult.



Please repost all your BC Porn in the BC PORN thread :)
Oct 31 2013 9:38AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Did anyone here ever heard of PHK?
http://www.phksnow.com/alpi.html

Its an Italian brand that makes snowboard bindings for hardboots, but also has a ski tech binding.

On google I found that on TGR there was a group buy in the past, I also posted on TGR and I know this is a long shot but maybe someone has some info on them..

I am emailing with the owner. He told me a new website will drop in a few weeks and that brakes are also on their way, they are getting patented at the moment.. New stuff thats is coming: Heel pad support option and rails under the toe and heel piece.. More interesting stuff is coming from them in the future..
Oct 31 2013 9:43AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
ya iv actually skied on them before. a friend of mine here in norway is starting a ski brand http://www.burfjordsport.no/ and uses those bindings as part of his system. he actually has made the lightest tele binding ever. uses a tech toe with the rest of the binding being a regular tele set up.

the skis are awesome too, super light made of a carbon foam layup. he is giving me a pair or two to take to america and show off have people demo. he is trying to open up his market. dont know much about the binding specifically but i liked them the one time i used them. a lot like dynafits and plums. more like plums than dynafits tho
Oct 31 2013 9:47AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Click for larger image

These? Nice!

Interesting stuff about the foam and carbon layup..

I'll try to email him about the bindings.. Thanks!
Oct 31 2013 10:03AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
Not entirely sure about the construction so don't quote me on that. My Norwegian is still getting better so it's tough translating technical jargon. But the skis are amazing.
Oct 31 2013 10:17AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Some nice tricks in this video:

Nov 1 2013 7:48PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
I'm looking at buying a pair of crampons for my boots to use this coming season, of course I'm going to go into the shop and make sure they fit my boots. But I'm just trying to get an idea of what I'm going to be spending, what crampons do you guys find work best with ski boots, C1 or C2 models?
Nov 2 2013 9:31AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
No-one uses the C1/C2/etc naming over here. My friends in shops get really annoyed with Brits asking about that.

Just get solid clips front and back. I've got Camp Nano XLCs at the moment but would just get the 390s if I was buying again to save the weight because I'm rarely on solid ice. They have a lightweight steel one now too which would be a good call if you'll be on ice a lot, otherwise save the weight an go aluminium, they'll still last for years. Grivel's Haute Route is worth checking out but they had very small useable front points on my boots so you need to check them on your boots first, and they don't fold up as small as Camps.
Nov 2 2013 9:39AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
^Oh right ok, cheers for the help
Nov 2 2013 10:06AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
I've got the Neve pros and like them, but damn those 390's are light!, 190grams lighter, same price too.
Nov 2 2013 2:31PM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
though i guess the anti balling plates add 110grams and 12bucks but still, they look sweet!
Nov 2 2013 2:33PM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
though i guess the anti balling plates add 110grams and 12bucks but still, they look sweet!


O on another note, anyone on here ice climb? Decided to get into it this winter after starting climbing this summer, looks fun(suffer fest fun) and I mean the Canadian rockies are pretty world class when it comes to it.
Nov 2 2013 2:35PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Make your own from ice cream tub plastic and zipties for free and 10g per side. Or just skip them and knock snow off your feet every 10 steps in the spring.
Nov 2 2013 8:06PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
Made my first BC turns of the season today at Cameron Pass in Northern Colorado on my new setup. Beautiful day and beautiful turns. We got out suuuper late and it was warm so we kept it low angle. Here's a video of one run where I pointed the GoPro way too low and a picture of my friend/the terrain we skied (it's not as flat as it looks). This area gets HAMMERED in the Winter and is great for safe but deep turns when everything else is high avy danger and/or the resorts are packed.


Click for larger image


Nov 2 2013 10:56PM
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Bleez
Posts: 83 - Karma: 32
Selling some 182 Liberty Double Helix w/ Dynafit TLT F12's in MINT condition. Looking for a reasonable price, willing to negotiate. PM me for details.

Click for larger image
Nov 3 2013 1:27AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
Going to try and embed this but lately everything is failing when i try to embed stuff so who knows.

Sick film out of Chamonix some burly as lines and there just laughing and joking there way down.

DownSide Up (T’es pas bien là ?) from sebastien montaz-rosset on Vimeo.



http://vimeo.com/78476552

And also another decent flick, with Henrik Windstetd and Dave Treadway on a Ski Mountaineering flick. Funny seeing pro skiers get freaked out on steeps and bitch and complain about light, but to be fair the lines are pretty damn burly regardless.

Lets Go Get Small - Official Movie from Peak Performance on Vimeo.



The Upper one is 9bucks to purchase but well worth the investment if you ask me. Its not your typical boring ski movie set to dubstep thats for sure.

Lets Go Get Small - Official Movie from Peak Performance on Vimeo.








Nov 5 2013 1:52AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
^^ Why you no worky! It even showed up when i freaking had it in here. well even just the clicky links below it work sorry about that. :(
Nov 5 2013 1:53AM
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*DELETED*
Posts: 1043 - Karma: 938
Threads for later
Nov 5 2013 1:59AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
So I can get some Plum bindings with discount, pretty stoked. But now I am not shure about some things.
I will mount them on inserts on a 188 Moment Tahoe and a 196 Moment Governor (Those will also have holes for Pivot18)

What would you do?
- Yak or Guide?
- Brakes or leashes?

I tend to go for the Yak because I will also mount them on the Governors.. (+ramp angle..) Brakes will cost me extra and also more weight, but leashes can be deadly..?

Thoughts?
Nov 5 2013 8:26AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
I always carry a small Crown Royal bag with the basics in it. Every wrench and hex key you would need to adjust it, have it in there in case something happens.


Or you could just buy this if it has all your tooling

Nov 5 2013 8:32AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,626
If you can find that tool.... It sounds discontinued.
I want one though
Nov 5 2013 8:56AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Yeah I wouldn't spend $80 on anything I already technically own- albeit not all in one piece but hey those purple camo Crown bags are good for something, right?

Nov 5 2013 9:00AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
I made some brakes for my Guides for about €50 that double up as a heel pad - http://www.lornecameron.com/2013/plum-guide-binding-brakes/ . The Plum ones are €100-150 and the forward-facing arms seem sketchy to me. I'll be remounting them on inserts soon so I can switch between to leashes whenever I want to save weight. Heel pads make a noticeable difference in feel but that's another €45 if you want to add them to Guides.

I mounted mine with Sollyfit toe plates too, to get the ramp I wanted; about €45. Yaks are +€120 although that does include heel pads. Or just make some toe shims from chopping board (search wildsnow.com). Don't buy into the Yak's "wider mounting pattern" spiel; allegedly it's "too wide" on a lot of skis anyway.
Nov 5 2013 9:11AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
I'm asking Santa for a Leatherman Skeletool plus the extended bit driver and a handful or normal bits this year.
Nov 5 2013 9:13AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
This. The yak is stupid and a total gimmick.
Nov 5 2013 9:24AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Thanks for the fast responses!

@Boax: I've read your blog and post about the brakes..great stuff! Not shure how or if I can get those brakes..

Question could be, do you really need brakes? When do you use them, when not?

@Huck: Why is the Yak a gimmick? The wider mounting patern doesnt matter or add anything?

Nov 5 2013 9:51AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
You should be able to get them online. A friend of mine works in a shop that deals G3 and ordered them for me. Making them wasn't totally straightforward but I like stuff like this so it was a cool project.

I'd prefer to use brakes all the time really, but 150g is significant weight per foot on +1000m ascents so I'll switch to leashes for that stuff, and I won't exactly be charging after a big climb anyway!

I skied them with leashes for the whole 11/12 winter and in all honesty I only took one real fall where I twisted one ski and it released like it should. But I always skied them with the toes locked up one click and dialled back my skiing a little, because the thought of a leashed ski releasing when skiing fast scared the shit out of me.

Last year with the brakes I still skied them locked one click all the time, pretty much just out of habit and I pretty much trust them to release in a big fall like that. But I'm planning on pushing them more in early season this winter around the resort with the toes unlocked to find if I can totally trust them to hold me in unlocked.
Nov 5 2013 10:01AM
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