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November, 2024

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Touring/AT NSers...

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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

I've been noticing lately that there are a few people on here who are into touring and earning their turns.  Where are you from, where are you touring and whatchagot for touring setups? 

I'm from mass but tour all over the EC and also when I go west for vaca (usually UT/BCC/LCC).  Mostly in VT along the green spine though while I'm home.  Right now I'm on Whitedot Redeemers quiverkilled for Plum Guides, but my 12/13 ON3P Billy Goat Tours should be on my doorstep by tomorrow- and will be my go-to touring skis for the majority of the season.  My boots are Dalbello Virus Tours with cochise top straps grafted on as well because I hated the stock top bail. 

So what's up with you, oh rando beasts of NS?   

Nov 13 2012 11:28AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,626
If you're just starting out, I'd hop on the guardian train.
It'll perform like a normal binding, and still give you the ability to get out touring when you can.

Many people I know go with an AT setup for a season, then swap over to a tech set up when they have more experience and can dedicate a pair of skis, as well as a set of equipment to bring touring specific
Oct 29 2013 7:46AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Well shit man, I had no idea haha... That is awesome and you just saved me several weeks of waiting.
Oct 29 2013 8:42AM
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yunglean2002
Posts: 89 - Karma: 80
thanks buddy, what i forgot to mention is that I've heard that salomon has said to use guardians solely with salomon touring boots because safety. I'm going to assume this is just extra precaution by the company? I think I'm going to order the guardians today
Oct 29 2013 1:21PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
where?
Oct 29 2013 1:22PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Where do they say that? Wherever they said it, I'm gonna say it's nonsense and you shouldn't listen to them. The Guardian is just the Atomic Tracker with a different colour scheme, and it's not tech compatible so there is no logic in that statement. Any din boot sole should fit in the Guardian with no issues.

Unless Salomon actually did something this year to change it from the Tracker, which I don't think they did so...
Oct 29 2013 1:27PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
third day on skis today! not the most amazing day but got a lot accomplished in terms of studying the snow pack and did a lot of practicing with emergency procedures if something happens.

also does anyone that has dynafights have any experience with pieces breaking? or if you carry any spare parts with you on tours? i am looking into making sure if a piece breaks that i have a back up but am not sure what to buy. I emailed dynafit and they said that they usually carry a spare heal piece without the springs as the climbing aids break (what they say breaks most frequently)
Oct 29 2013 1:33PM
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yunglean2002
Posts: 89 - Karma: 80
just looked again.. gone. damn
Oct 29 2013 1:39PM
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yunglean2002
Posts: 89 - Karma: 80
http://www.wildsnow.com/8495/salomon-guardian-boots-backcountry/ scroll down to the tag he finds when he opens the box. this is one link but I've seen it elsewhere
Oct 29 2013 1:45PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Yeah, all that says is that you can't use a tech sole, because the toe height isn't adjustable(er - it is, just not enough?). Any DIN sole boot will work with the Guardian (and any non tech bidning). A pair of Full Tilt park boots will work with the Guardian for example. Every hard good manufacturer is going to tell you to use the same stuff... hell even shampoo companies tell you to use the same company of conditioner, but in the end, clean hair is clean hair, you know?
Oct 29 2013 2:01PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
Wait wait wait, the Guardian won't work with tech/rockered AT boots? The toe piece on mine is adjustable so I'm questionable on that statement. I was planning on getting some AT specific boots next year to use both on those and a pair of dyanfit boots once I can afford both. Now I'm questioning my having bought the guardians...
Oct 29 2013 2:08PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
It can adapt to rockered soles via adjustable toe rather than floating AFD. Still not technically release certifiable due to vibram on AFD though. Whatever.


Oct 29 2013 2:15PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
ya the afd plate isnt adjustable so you cant use them with tech boots. i have the same problem but my boots have a removable sole so i just switch it out. its a pain so next season im returning my guardians for dukes or something else.
Oct 29 2013 2:15PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Well, if the shoe fits...

I use AT soles with Dukes so if you are confident with the connection, I guess go for it? Haven't really played with the Guardian/Trackers very much, but from my understanding they aren't quite as good as the Dukes for fitting an AT sole.
Oct 29 2013 2:16PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,626
You'll be fine. They've developed the binding to fit the touring boots with a snugger fit.
That's what their whole WTR system is all about on the new STH bindings as well. They've just made it more compatible with tech boots
Oct 29 2013 2:18PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
*Sorry- not DIN certifiable because of vibram on FIXED AFD. It's a little better on floating AFDs but this is almost a moot point IMO since nobody is willing to step up and make a comprehensive release chart based on plastic compositions. We need to get some enginerds on release coefficients from vibram type to vibram type etc., and have soles rated for X, Y or Z release patterns already. I'm getting sick of the ambiguity and the confusion it's causing. Half the boots out there will release fine from most bindings and the other half will never come out. It's such a crap shoot if you don't know how to adjust forward pressure and have a release gauge to do a few rips out to test it.



Oct 29 2013 2:21PM
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yunglean2002
Posts: 89 - Karma: 80
Hahaha wat Click for larger image

I have salomon impact all-mountain boots from five years ago. Will I be fine
Oct 29 2013 2:31PM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93
You will be fine. Guardian will accept all alpine (meaning normal downhill skiing) boots as they are DIN certified lugs. It will not accept rockered vibram touring soles with tech fittings (aka AT or touring boots with tech soles).

Anyone actually use AT boots in Guardians/Trackers? How are the release characteristics? I switched from Dukes to Guardians this year, only skiing downhill boots for now. Probably going to get a Dynafit or Fritschi Vipec setup in the spring and new boots to go with it. I'm guessing some AT boots will fit Guardians/Trackers with reasonably safe release profile?
Oct 29 2013 2:52PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8949 - Karma: 36,476
Just picked up some mfd alltimes....gunna throw them on my benchetlers with head mojos. Gunna be heavy...oh well. Little workout never killed anybody...
Oct 29 2013 2:55PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Guardian/Tracker only fits DIN or semi-rockered touring soles. A real touring boot with a fully rockered sole doesn't fit.
Oct 29 2013 3:04PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

Hahaha. Radical FT12 -20% = $440... not bad. Not bad. Add to cart. Intl shipping to Canuckistan: ... $100.

BOOM.

I will say that 267 for G3 Onyxes is a pretty stellar price. They're a fairly underrated binding from what I've read.

Oct 29 2013 3:15PM
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yunglean2002
Posts: 89 - Karma: 80
Just quickly looked over them on G3's website, I gotta go to class but I'll look more in depth later. I like that price much more than $448 for guardians but would it be stupid to get the G3s instead?

I'm on all-mountain boots, Faction 4.0s and will be doing short side-country tours with the occasional big trip.
Oct 29 2013 3:18PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Well that's a damn shame but it makes sense- Only so much the toe will go and they didnt want to sacrifice the stack height to offer a floating AFD.

Hate that it's so confusing though. I really wish some German would step in and make a standardized system by which we could make sense of what each boot is in a larger system. How great would it be if there was a class system of soles that would give you a range of specific products that would automatically be compatible across all brands? I.e. class 1,2 or 3 soles that would be compatible with same-class bindings etc.

Or I could be rambling haha
Oct 29 2013 3:24PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
is the guardian WTR 13 the exact same as the guardian 16, but with lower din range? what does WTR stand for?
Oct 29 2013 3:31PM
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fragglemuffin
Posts: 3312 - Karma: 444
Yep. I believe it's a little lighter too. The WTR stands for Walk-to-ride.
Oct 29 2013 3:34PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
awesome. thanks for the quick reply man

have you or anyone heard any word of them being significantly less durable or anything, too much plastic compared to the 16?

i don't crank my DINs up too high nowadays, but i have broken a couple plastic bindings and i def have zero interest in doing that ever again...especially if theyre my mode of transportation back to civilization
Oct 29 2013 3:57PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143

Dude, they're totally different bindings. The Onyx is a tech binding. If you don't own touring boots (i.e. dynafit compatible) or Tecnica Cochises with the replaceable soles, you cannot use them, full stop.

Guardians are frame bindings - basically an alpine binding, it's just the heel unlocks. Entirely different binding type. I don't know what you mean by "all mountain" boots, but if your boots don't have holes in the toes for tech bindings you have to go the frame route; be it Guardians or Dukes or Fritschis or Marker F12s or Naxos or whatever.

Oct 29 2013 4:47PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
Thanks! Aha, had actually found that before you posted. Now I gotta figure out if I'll buy from them or keep looking. Their price is good but shipping to Canada is being quoted $80...

Oct 29 2013 4:55PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
also sorry to noobquestion it up here but can anyone break down the major differences between dukes and guardians?

ive done a lot of hiking for my turns the past two years and want to get into touring, but i don't want to sacrifice ANY downhill performance, or ever have towonder if my bindings are burly enough for a certain line or drop. ideally i could use them on lift accessed days too
Oct 29 2013 5:11PM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93
Dukes:
+Proven design, essentially on third generation (2008 first gen, 2010 minor revisions, 2012 EPF version)
+Compatible with both downhill and rockered AT boots via sliding AFD

-Higher stack height than Guardians (very minor difference, couple mm)
-Zero ramp angle (this is personal preference, alpine bindings usually have a bit of ramp)
-More plastic at interface points
-Have to take skis off to switch tour/ski mode (not a big deal for 95% of people I'd argue)

Guardians:
+Metal frame/rails versus plastic (debatable if it's good since people have snapped the rails, see Backcountry.com)
+Lower stack
+Ramp angle
+Switch from ski to tour without taking off skis
+Salomon's reputation for binding design (997/900/916 platform)

-New design, not as proven, only one retail season and there are failures in the field (rails snapping)
-Only compatible with downhill and WTR boots

I was on a pair of OG Dukes (2008-09) up until this season, I've just switched to Guardians. Reason being that Dukes developed slop (I weigh 200lbs and skied them a lot on big skis, in bounds) and I wanted to try the Guardians. I also got the Guardians for $499 mounted, while EPF Dukes are $500+ mount here (Vancovuer). I will go full Dynafit for a real touring setup soon anyway.

If you think you will ever have touring boots and both are the same price, I'd get Duke EPF's.
Oct 29 2013 5:19PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
fuckin awesome, posts like this are the reason NS is badass

thanks so much man, really appreciate it. def wanna get a good burly touring setup soon and this really helps
Oct 29 2013 5:30PM
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yunglean2002
Posts: 89 - Karma: 80
Thanks J.D. and everyone for putting up with my dumb questions.

Rubbersoul and I are on the same page here - earning turns and looking to take the next step but we just want to make sure we make the right choice here. Thanks for all the information guys, I think I know enough to make a decision now
Oct 29 2013 6:17PM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Just sharing a nice video.
Andreas Fransson is one cool dude..

http://vimeo.com/77959171
Oct 29 2013 6:53PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
I have the 13s. the only difference is the springs. everything else is identical.


and now I'm sad bears to hear that you can't use fully rockered boots on my guardian. Good thing I just sold my Dalbello Virus boots so I could afford the Cochise, which has almost as good a walk mode but DIN soles.
Oct 29 2013 8:08PM
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Pudge
Posts: 3718 - Karma: 3,117
I loved the Solly film on him. But he must have a serious way with words in Swedish
Oct 29 2013 8:58PM
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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
how about some skiing? lil rockober coulie to get us all in the mood


Click for larger image
Oct 29 2013 10:47PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
I've done it for Ninetyfour.....

If anyone really wants something available in the US and shipping is crazy priced, It was like $38 for me to ship bindings to canada from Mammoth. It's not really a hassle since I have to go to the post office all the time anyway since I have a PO Box.


Oct 29 2013 11:19PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
Good and reliable member to deal with! I bought two sets of bindings (one for myself, one for her) and had them both shipped to her place because Backcountry can't send Salomon stuff from the U.S. to Canada. She could have easily kept both pair and then disappeared off the face of the planet. Instead I got a quick and timely payment, and a fast and cheap shipment. Pretty awesome deal if you ask me.

And are you speed flying this winter along with some touring, or mostly touring?
Oct 30 2013 12:13AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
http://www.adventure-journal.com/2013/08/big-mountain-descents-need-style-ethics-argues-top-steep-skier/I don't understand how someone like him can right this article he talks about people shouldnt be hop turning down shti, look at him, rappeling into lines, hop turning fuck he skis rad shit but I really don't get where hes comign from in that article at all.

Oct 30 2013 12:25AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
You forgot something I feel is very important...

Guardians:
- no flat tour mode, sucks for flat and slight downhill skinning

Between these two I'd go with the latest Duke. Improvements over the Dukes I (and most friends) have been rocking for years include wider footprint on ski and a much better heel riser mechanism. Besides that, keep it the same please.
Oct 30 2013 12:27AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,965
I have always enjoyed the inbounds bootpacking terrain in summit county (Key, Breck, ABasin), but hated the bootpacking part. I plan on building up a tele setup possibly this season but more likely by next season. An option that I have been looking into is a glueless skin like the 4FRNT skins or Gecko Glueless. The bootpacking trails are usually 1-2ish miles of not very steep terrain. I really just want to be able to slap them on and off when needed and make short speedy laps.

The terrain if you are interested/if it matters is:
Keystone: Erikson, Bergman, Independence, North, and South Bowls, and the Windows.
Breck: The Back Nine hike to terrain
Arapahoe Basin: Hike-To at bottom of Montezuma, and probably future Beavers terrain.

Stuff like Upper East Wall at ABay and Peak 8 Summit at Breck seem too short to warrant use of skins(?)


That seemed very poorly worded to me so I hope you guys get what I am looking for.
Oct 30 2013 12:54AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,965
And somewhat related to my above post, what are your guys opinions on NTN vs duckbill?. NTN really seems like the way to go, but is more expensive and especially since I will just be getting into tele I don't want to put too much into something I could or couldn't like.

I kind of understand the benefits of NTN on a basic level, but from what I have read, the ski could have a pretty big effect on what I should choose. It will probably be something around 110 underfoot with rocker in the tip and maybe tail (something like the surface Live Life)

Please help, I know there HAS to be some telemark guys on here somewhere.
Oct 30 2013 1:02AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
Preface, I'm not a tele guy, but I worked woth a lot of them, not to mention working in a BC specific shop. NTNs are a great way to transition from alpine free ride to tele skiing wothout the crazy adaptation, trolling for rocks woth your knees learning period. Granted, you need special boots amd bindings but they're great if you want to tele but still feel that alpne freeride confidence.
Oct 30 2013 2:15AM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
Like stated before gecko skins are not great buy at your own risk.
Oct 30 2013 2:53AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Go with the 4FRNTs
Oct 30 2013 5:19AM
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shorn860
Posts: 12 - Karma: 12
Boston checking in.  Got my first touring setup this Fall (Guardian 16's and Icelantic Nomad RKRs)  not sure about the combo but I got em brand new for 600.  Excited to get up North this winter and try something new.

Looking for some suggestions on beginning tours in the Northeast.  Pray for snow!
Oct 30 2013 8:56AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
would you mind elaborating on that?
Oct 30 2013 9:31AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
This thread is awesome. Lets see some more preseason photos
Oct 30 2013 10:05AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
the "flat" mode for skinning isnt actually flat. it puts you at a 4 degree angle. that's a deal breaker for some people who do long approaches and not even noticable fo others.
Oct 30 2013 10:13AM
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shorn860
Posts: 12 - Karma: 12
Is it possible to do Hillman's highway into the sherburne trail?  If so how early can you do it?
Oct 30 2013 10:35AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Not to be "that guy" but MTW isn't the kind of place you gather loose beta on and then go try out.
Oct 30 2013 10:50AM
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