The Official Presidential Election Thread

On behalf of the vast majority of the world outside the USA, please don't elect Romney. Or do, but be prepared to be the laughing stock of the globe for the next 4 years.

Religion is like cancer though. You try to nuke it with logic and it just won't die. Think it's going to leave you alone but it just keeps coming back.



Yes there are plenty of ignorant homophobes that aren't religious. I just think that religion will keep this an issue for a long time. I still think gay marriage and gay adoption will be legal in all 50 states within the next 20 years though.


The "sanctity of marriage". Lol newsflash, look at the fucking divorce rate. You don't see christians lining up to protest wedding chapels in vegas. A lot of thos are people who just get fucked up, say yolo, and marry the random person they're drinking with. It only matter when you bring gay people into the picture. Also ridiculous how they play the victim car all the time. They act like you're killing them by letting other people have freedoms. Your religion can stay as ignorant and bigoted as you want, lead shitty protest marches, post in blogs, but you can't take away other peoples rights. I don't see how it's such an issue for them. I can't take anyone serious that acts like their life will crumble if I marry another dude. Chill the fuck out, find something better to care about like the environment or something.


And gay adoption/also a problem with gay marriage. Rabble rabble gay parents aren't as good as regular families with a mom and a dad. Well you don't see anyone protest single moms/dads. That's no big deal. If a single mom or dad can raise a kid well then why can't 2 moms or 2 dads raise a decent kid. Even if having a mother and father is best(just for arguments sake), wouldn't you rather have kids getting adopted by loving parents then bouncing around foster homes?


You can't have abortions, or even birth control. Fuck even if you're raped you should have the baby and give it up for adoption. Who the fuck is adopting all these babies? Last I checked there were a were more kids out there than families that wanted them. Why the fuck would you turn away good parents with jobs, a good house, who care about the kids? You're going to fuck over those kids because YOU have some shitty issues with gay people that you can't get over.

I wonder if those kids would care. I doubt there would be many that would say "I'd rather spend my life without a family than have 2 moms or 2 dads"


As far as that issue religious people can go fuck themselves. Believe what you want, but at least look at the consequences your ridiculous beliefs have on other people. You always play the victim card. I think in this instance, gay people that aren't hurting you, and children who want to be adopted are getting the shit end of the deal just so that you can sleep better at night.


Fucked up.

Also FTR, that wasn't a rant against you. Was just sort of saying that religion will keep fucking progress. As times change, new generations are born, we've seen some pretty awesome progress. Religion is like a dinosaur to that.


Times change, but religion stands the same. That's fine. I'm not saying religion should change just because it looks foolish and antiquated in the face of society. By all means hold on to your beliefs.

Just don't try to force it on other people.


^ Another mini rant

foster kids, yes. babies-- no. there are waiting lists for babies.

and as much as i agree with most everything you say, for some reason i just always want to be devils advocate and argue against you because you're so arrogant and you can't help but insult others in stating your own point of view(s) and that is just so irritating. Give yourself more credibility and try not to bash others when making your points-- you might actually change some minds--really-- being serious here.

That's what I meant. But little kids get bigger.

I used to. Now I just kind of stopped caring to an extent. On some issues I'm just doing it to be a dick, on other I really have never heard somebody make a good argument for the other side. if somebody does that then I'll be like word, alright, I don't agree with you but I hear you.


For the most part peoples opinions on this are total bullshit, so why act as though their completely shit illogical bigoted opinion makes sense. Especially the way the religious play the victim card all the time.

It's funny that they bitch so much about religious freedoms, yet a large percentage of them voted for George Bush, and backed him even through the "patriot" act.

so make your case. make it well. do it without bashing the other side, and you my just have my vote or have a chance of chagning my opinion of myself or others.

I know you have both the knowledge and reason for having the points of view that you do-- be powerful and use your knowledge to influence. I just feel like you aren't doing that and you're cheapening your valuable point of view with foul language and low blows to the "other side"

*changing the opinion of myself or others

I mean I get what you're saying, and I appreciate it, don't get me wrong. I'm just tired of all the bullshit. And this world is full of it, with levels that keep going. There are all these loud voices, much louder than mine spewing complete bullshit. At least you good argue that many things I say are at least rooted in reality(even if we don't agree on anything)


I guess I just got rid of my filter. There's too much shit going on these days that people don't talk about don't know about. There's too many stupid people in this country that don't even care to learn. I can calmly debate people in a civil manner but sometimes I just don't give a fuck anymore.



Look at it from my angle. I don't agree with a whole fuck ton of shit that goes on. You have so many people that blindly support whatever christians should support, whatever dems should support, whatever reps should support. They don't question things. We have shit getting constantly worse.

" I just feel like you aren't doing that and you're cheapening your valuable point of view with foul language and low blows to the "other side""

Nobody is listening regardless. I guess that's my point. This country is full of stupid people who keep fucking and raising more stupid people. In a sense we're fucked. I've sort of "washed my hands" of this whole thing.

Is that kind of a shitty attitude? maybe. But look at it from my perspective, regardless of what you believe. How incredibly frustrating it is to be against pretty much everything that's going on, be blasted by nothing but bullshit spinning the other way, have the people flocking right along, people who don't even try to question things.

You can't even watch history on the history channel anymore. WTF is this.

It's just frustrating to care about people who are too dumb to help themselves. And that's sort of how I feel about things.

Your first paragraph is offensive and broad-reaching. Doesn't really have any point other than spreading hate. I get that you hate religion because you think religion has spread hate and bias-- but at this point you're just doing the same so you're no better.

second paragraph-- what about the religious that aren't ignorant homophobes?

third paragraph--honestly the majority of marriages in vegas are elopers, not those who get drunk and marry the person next to them-- those who want to get married so they fly/drive to vegas to do it. And-- then you say "its ridiculous how they play the victim card all the time," while simultaneously playing the victim card. And-- who cats like they're being killed by allowing gay marriage?  What shitty protest marches? You're just vague and insulting and I would respect your viewpoint a lot more if you didn't paint with such broad brushes or had more sources behind your statements.

No one really thinks that you shouldn't either have the option of abortion or birth control even if you're raped. For one, it is very far right to think you shouldn't have the option of abortion in any case, and very few replublicans are even taking that standpoint-- but in terms of the presidential electian-- Romney is not stating that he would outlaw abortion-- he mentioned that he is for it being at the state-level. But that doesn't even matter, because even if he were elected, that is so far down on his list of priorities that he wouldn't even touch it. AND, even if he did want to overturn roe v. wade, it's not as if he has the authority to do that himself-- it wouldn't happen.

And no-- I highly doubt an adopted child would care if they were raised by gay parents as opposed to being unadopted/foster kids for life. Of course not-- gay parents I'm sure make great parents.

And as far as that issue-- no, religious people cannot go fuck themselves-- because I am religious, but I actually agree with you. I think you just need to say that you speak on behalf of a certain group-- some are chritian, some are catholic, but some are not at all-- so why paint a broad brush and paint all christina/catholics the same? talk about the homophobic-- fine--but don't act as though the christian and the homophobic are one in the same.

You keep saying the "victim card" but you keep playing it yourself.

again-- playing devils advocate-- agree with you on most things but think that you go about your arguments the wrong way.

sorry-- mobile and there is some spelling problems and auto-correct. bear with me.

i hate when people "play" devil's advocate and come up with really lame opposing views. just admit you disagree with what he was saying because you were indoctrinated with the love of jesus as a child(obviously a generalization, but i bet im right)

i found his first paragraph to be a light. ive had similar thoughts about religion dieing out. the numbers seem to be thinning within the population but i think the extremists are just becoming more vocal and forcing the views even harder. making the representation of the actual population even more skewed. but my personal opinion is that it is an arch of all religion to be dogmatic and to overly focus on tradition. its a key part in social control. i think that holds back humanity and is not an objective way to view the universe around us. so i hope there are more people out there like him, that has this hope as well. however you were right, calling religion cancer adds fuel to the fire

your second response didnt really rebut anything to what he said. the fact of the matter is that the leadership in judeo-christian faiths are against gays, and from there the prejudice will always stem, as they are the primary religious influence in the US where it has been rerooted

third - vegas was just a small example. a 50% divorce rate in our nation negates any argument to protect the "sanctity of marriage" which was the point of that paragraph.  i dont see how you can argue that

as for romney on abortion, you are right. the issue has nothing to do with him. the only people who can change anything about the constitutionality of abortion dont want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.  i mentioned this in another thread, but the final question of the vice presidential debate was premised with their views on abortion via their faiths.  i honestly found ryans answer disturbing as you said it touched on being at the state level and anyone with a brain knows theres no way that will happen.  but anyway, the point of the question was about how they would differ in supreme court appointments, which is the only way they could impact the issue of abortion. it really shouldnt be a political issue at this point. 

in terms of calling all christians/catholics homophobes being inaccurate, i agree.  however homophobic notions are a social product. its the views of society shaped in a certain way to think a certain thing.  if judeo-christian faiths carry these anti-gay homophobes, and yes they certainly do, it isnt hard for those social ideas to spread. especially 70 years ago when there were a lot more religious people running around.  im just saying you can arguably point the finger.

again, im just saying when people "play" devil's advocate is bs, and theyre just throwing down their opinion 

these election/abortion/economy/gay marriage threads are getting depressing and pointless.  the planet is start to fling us off into space like the fleas we are and we're still too distracted to do anything about that.  in a speech about a month ago, noam chomsky noted the lack of focus on environmental issues during the debate. i saw that speech after i started a paper with that same notion.  bloomberg finally said something about that, along with some of the news networks that actually report news. it only took a hurricane to destroy half of new york, new jersey, most the eastern sea board, cuba and who knows where else for that to happen. all the while trans canada is invoking eminent domain while paying off local law enforcement to block protesters in order to take privately owned land from citizens in texas to start construction on a pipeline that will carry oil from tar sands in alberta and that has yet to be approved by the us government. lets pull our heads out of our asses to worry about shit that matters

Yeah. It was sort of meant to me a little over the top and bold. Was I throwing rocks back at them? Yeah. Is that good, no


True. As much as I hate generalizing I was pooling in the large group of religious that ARE homophobes. I mean there are actually some religious people that are kind and follow the bible.

Yeah, but it does happen. There are plenty of spur of the moment marriages. Was just trying to make a point that why don't they care about that? Obviously that doesn't follow the "sanctity of marriage".

" And-- then you say "its ridiculous how they play the victim card all the time," while simultaneously playing the victim card"

Yeah. But at least in the generalized group of religious my post was targeting it kind of is that way. I had to deal with breaking away from all that stuff. Maybe to some people that's no big deal, but for me it was. When you're told things all the time from almost birth, believe in a whole existence, read about it, try to become more immersed and then later realize it's a sham, and have to break away from it. Then feel guilty just for questioning things at the start. Idk. For me that was a big deal. Religion was the main part of my life, that's how it was drilled into me, I was a deeply religious person as a kid. Also I'm gay. Just tired of hearing about how the world is going to end if gay people get married from people who can't even grasp the concept that not everything the republicans do is great.(Thought about how to phrase this without belittling anyone. Decided it was good enough)


I felt I was being sensible in a dickish way. All it really meant was that it won't keep you from having your churches, being able to protest that you hate gay people, being able to believe what ever you want. I could have worded it much more nicely I just chose not to.

" would respect your viewpoint a lot more if you didn't paint with such broad brushes or had more sources behind your statements."

To me, sources are for intelligent discussions. Facts and sources are for people who will actually listen. I guess I just don't feel like anyone's going to listen.


"No one really thinks that you shouldn't either have the option of abortion or birth control even if you're raped."

Oh believe me, they do. Even if you're raped, it's still a child, God's child, and you shouldn't kill it because it isn't the child's fault. That's a real argument, paraphrased of course but a real argument. As far as that example being all religious or even close to it, wasn't supposed to be. Just an example to pair with my point about not letting gay people adopt kids.

"For one, it is very far right to think you shouldn't have the option of abortion in any case, and very few replublicans are even taking that standpoint-- but in terms of the presidential electian-- Romney is not stating that he would outlaw abortion-- he mentioned that he is for it being at the state-level. But that doesn't even matter, because even if he were elected, that is so far down on his list of priorities that he wouldn't even touch it. "

Well as far as the beginning I guess you understood that. Was sort of confused because that really is a belief and not one held by only a few people.

What you said about romney and abortion is one of the reasons I think it's ridiculous to vote for someone simply because of where they say they stand on this issue. Nobody is touching that any time soon. It's not an issue where that's a massive goal of theirs they just can't get passed, they just aren't going to touch that.

"AND, even if he did want to overturn roe v. wade, it's not as if he has the authority to do that himself-- it wouldn't happen. "

Exactly. Regarding to my posts about politics these days.


"And as far as that issue-- no, religious people cannot go fuck themselves-- because I am religious, but I actually agree with you. I think you just need to say that you speak on behalf of a certain group-- some are chritian, some are catholic, but some are not at all-- so why paint a broad brush and paint all christina/catholics the same? talk about the homophobic-- fine--but don't act as though the christian and the homophobic are one in the same. "


As far as the issue, I think it's religion that's going to keep it alive. Not all religion, but I feel it will never die because religion will keep that an issue forever. Don't take it personally. It was mid rant on a hot issue. I have many good friends that are religious. Some things we agree on some we don't. One of my good friends thinks being gay is a sin. We still get along fine. Not saying that's you as you expressed you aren't anti gay, I just wanted you to know that I'm not all let's burn the religious even if my posts come off that way sometimes.

"but don't act as though the christian and the homophobic are one in the same. "

Many times they are though. That's what I see more of than good chirstian people living a decent christian life, following the bible rather than judging others. Hopefully in time that will be a massive majority of the religion. Would be nice.

"You keep saying the "victim card" but you keep playing it yourself."

I kind of am to an extent. How are they the victim. Nobody is forcing them to allow gay marriages in their churches, change there views, alter their religions, like gay people, stop protesting. I actually oppose the ability to limit that and censor them. I'm just tired of listening to them make everything out to be everyone coming after religion. Maybe they really feel that way, or maybe they just realized that's a very effective way to mobilize a ton of people, or both.

"again-- playing devils advocate-- agree with you on most things but think that you go about your arguments the wrong way."

It's all good. I didn't take anything you said the wrong way. Hopefully you can understand where I was coming from and that I don't hate all religious people. I just group it up sometimes and assume it's obvious I'm talking about certain parts and not every facet.

actually some people just really dig religion, its good for them, they live happier lives because of it. I hate it when people postulate really lame theories that the only reason people are religious, is cause their parents shoved it down their throat.

i said its a generalization. generalizations have exceptions. saying that i said its the only reason people are religious is inaccurate, i was saying it is the primary source.

also, you dont think that family influence is the primary introduction to religion for most people?

It really is a big part of religion. I honestly think at the very least, the majority of religious people believe it because they were told it as a child. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm agnostic. I just don't think you can argue that as if MOST people believe in religion because they objectively though that it was the most sensible option for them.

this

this

lol everyone's mad

I bring this up all the time. Most people who are religious blindly follow the religion that they are brought up in childhood with. Personally, I think it's very ignorant and arrogant to think that the religion you were preached to all of your life is the right religion and most other religions are wrong. Let's keep this thread on track though and bring it back to things that can actually be proven and disputed within man's reason, unlike religion. Agnosticism, fuck yeah!

Well, at least it didn't get to religion until the 8th page

because the rest of presidential politics is so genuinely enthralling.

seriously, fuck the election. more important shit is going on

Okay, first, Romney has outright said, send me a bill banning all abortions and I'll be "delighted to sign it." His words. Second, he appoints SC judges who do decide whether to overturn Roe v. Wade. There are already judges on the court who would overturn it. One or two more may tip the balance. So yes, it's a live issue.

Not to mention, they don't necessarily have to - in Missouri, for example, state officials are simply creating new regulations that apply only to abortion clinics that are intended to make them more difficult and expensive to run in order to force them to shut down.

Second, "no one really thinks" that abortion should not be allowed in cases of rape? Um, yes, yes they do! A handful of Republican senate candidates have this AS THEIR PLATFORM on abortion. Hell, even Paul Ryan thinks this:

How can you possibly think that no one holds that view when the Republican candidate for Vice President does??

Mittens campaigning in Pittsburgh tomorrow. Sign of progress or hail mary pass?

1992: George Bush campaigns in Penn the day before the election. Loses Penn.

1996: Bob Dole campaigns in Penn right before the election. Loses Penn.

2000: W campaigns in Penn the day before the election. Loses Penn.

2004: W campaigns in Penn the day before the election. Loses Penn. 

2008: John McCain campaigns in Penn right before the election. Loses Penn.

... See a pattern here?

Yeah we dont need another george 'dubya

Yeah, they all campaigned in Pennsylvania the day before the election.

Yes. And then they lost Pennsylvania. Basically, the GOP candidate going to Penn does not mean anything in terms of their campaign. It does not mean they're doing so well that they feel they have a shot at taking a Dem stronghold like Penn. It's just posturing.

really this, if your not for gay marriage now all that means is you would have been against interracial marriage in the 50-60's saying the bible says its bad.

Not that it's scientific proof or anything, but "sources" within the campaign said the last minute ad buy in MN, MI, and PA was because they had loads of money and nowhere else to spend it more than that they were desperate.

too much money, buy more ads.

lol.

Take notes ladies and gentlemen.

Not true, actually.

If someone states their opinion or argues it in a manner that I think is arrogant or condescending I typically like to argue the opposing stance. I don't think when people say they're "playing devils advocate" they're really just hiding behind the statement while voicing their own opinions--I think more times than not you're just speaking to someone who likes debate, and is willing to take the opposing side to whatever you're arguing.

The rest of your response was good- thanks.

Guess what guys?

ok- i didn't mean "no one" literally, I meant no one in terms of the Romney administration--

I probably shouldn't have said it, because I don't actually know. However, I don't take what they say so seriously. They're politicians-- they say what they say at any given point to score with certain groups of people. Everyone claims that Romney was super right, and then after receiving the nomination became a moderate overnight-- I believe they're using the term "romnesia" but the reality is he was probably never all that far right-- he acted as though he was because he needed to to secure the nomination. Now he is more moderate because that's who he needs to be to secure the presidency.

Maybe I'm wrong, and Romney/Ryan are 100% truthful in everything that they say-- I just doubt it. I also doubt that if they were elected it would even really be talked about until the next election. I think abortion is something that is talked about/debated come election time(s) because it is a good way to score points (or not score points) with groups of people. It's just manipulation for votes.

Again though, I could be wrong, and their main agenda could be to overturn Roe V. Wade..I just doubt it though.

Lady hogs likes Obama so ima vote for h durr hurr

I am pretty sure it already started. Chris Christie v. Hillary Clinton?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/chris-christie-not-running-for-president/ i know thats for 2012 but he has said 100's of times he does not want to run president ever.

one hundreds of times. Thats an interesting phrase, it makes a lot of sense

yes I'm sure that post was unreadable because of it, also sick alias bro.

thanks. Sick grammar bro

im pretty sure he is ESL.

no way that bafoon is working towards being bilingual.

I think that was just him meaning that year. He'll run in 2016, Cory Booker will become Governor of NJ and then run himself in 2020? 2024? We'll have to wait and see.

no he said he "never" wants to run i cant the video but i promise he said it. who knows maybe he will change his mind.

nooope! American!

O REALLY please tell me more about how you know where I'm from?

because you always talk about whiteface and breck

Chris Christie is the fucking man. He's a how all politicians should act. He supports Romney, but understands that help can come from anywhere. Example:

O really please tell me more about how I lived in co for 2 years.