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Inherent risk of....JACKSON HOLE MOUNTAIN RESORT

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Stu_epps
Posts: 114 - Karma: 11
'inherent risk of 'snowboard jumping and riding over a man-made tabletop jump
in a specially designated terrain park.' Harshman v. Jackson Hole Mountain
Resort Corp., 200 F. Supp. 2d 1329, 1344 (2002)'
Oct 24 2004 7:57AM
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Stu_epps
Posts: 114 - Karma: 11
Basicly, hey stupid your goning to land on your head!
Oct 24 2004 7:58AM
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teamdummy
Posts: 1188 - Karma: 2,604
i'm sorry the kid died but i read that whole link and it sounds like he hit the jump going way to fast, overshot the landing and landed on his head. i thinks his family is heartbroken over their son's death and want to blame somebody. when in fact it looks like it was his own fault.
Oct 24 2004 8:08AM
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RandomHero21
Posts: 1335 - Karma: 15
Liability in America is so fucking stupid. If you do something that might kill you.......IT's YOUR OWN FUCKING FAULT.


I don't know karate, but I know Ka-razy
Oct 24 2004 8:27AM
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soup
Posts: 6343 - Karma: 4,415
holy shit the kid died. that fucking sucks. ive seen somone do that and it aint funny
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Oct 24 2004 8:59AM
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Adamskinick
Posts: 3353 - Karma: 126
first off, u cant get mad at the family this is probably an intermediate boarder who tried to go off a jump with no freestyle experience. u have to put it into perspective. they are sueing on basis that the jump takeoff was angled to high. maybe so.. but they're sueing on the fact that since their is no official 'jump angle' that it was jackson hole's fault. they will probably settle out of court but this wont close the terrain park, dont bitch how it ruins skiing, and this guy's a pussy. just because the guy wasnt good enough to be in the park doesnt mean that he shouldnt receive money for his accident. yes it was stupid of him to be there, and no one is more to blame than himself but you have to put it into perspective. imagine if u fell on a rail and crushed your ribcage, u can die of internal bleeding ok it happens. your family might sue due to liability issues regardless of if it was ur fault or not. they could sue on the fact that there was no reason to have metal objects like a rail on a ski course. there is no defined 'park' in the laws. u cant just assume because the person hits a jump or rail that if he gets hurt he isnt liable. its more confusing than u think
NS Philosopher
Oct 24 2004 9:37AM
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Adamskinick
Posts: 3353 - Karma: 126
and im sure he hit it too hard leaned back in fear of hitting his face down, and went inverted cause im sure the jump was more than 40 feet. the one thing that jackson hole can do that would make sense is to create a speed track, where u cant start behind a certain point. this could obviously was a rookie freestyle boarder.
NS Philosopher
Oct 24 2004 9:39AM
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skiman540
Posts: 543 - Karma: 12
^^ Are you kidding me?? This is exactly the problem in the US right now. Anyone can sue over anything they want. The stupid lady who won a lawsuit b/c she brought her kids to mcdonalds twice a day for however long and ... guess what? HER KIDS GOT FAT!! This is also why medical malpractice insurance rates are skyrocketing and doctors are having to go out of private practices or only take certain patients. The real problem here is that if this kid's family sues, the next kid who does it might not have a doctor there to even try and save him.
I ski Killington

College passes are awesome
Oct 24 2004 9:55AM
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ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
I feel really bad for the kid and his parents, and I pray that they can work through it, but it's stupid to sue ski resorts. You inherit any risk when you strap in your bindings, and especially when you go into a park. The kid shouldn't have gone over it. He was just an intermiediate, and diddn't have much experience to start on something so big. It is his own fault. His parents should accept that and the fact that they should have tought there son to know his limitations and not to try stupid crap. Hopefully this won't end up very badly, and have j holes park closed, or have an affect on other resorts.

'People suing ski resorts need to be shot.'-scot schimdt
Oct 24 2004 10:03AM
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Adamskinick
Posts: 3353 - Karma: 126
skiman i agree with you, it is a problem in the US but that is why we are free and have the right to go to court. obviously the parents are going to sue are u kidding me? if u were racing a friend in a car and were going well over the speed limit, hit another drunk driver but you werent drunk, whose to blame u or the other driver. of course a law suit is going to be filed, shit u act like people should just suck it up and move on.. i can imagine when you get into a car accident or get into a fight, and hurt someone. they're gonna sue you of course jackson hole has to take responsibilty whether it is corporate bullshit or not, without those laws America wouldn't be considered a land of freedom, retard
NS Philosopher
Oct 24 2004 10:10AM
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FreshCoast
Posts: 5602 - Karma: 34
A speed track? Please explain how that works? The snow conditions can change at any given moment. Some people skis aren't waxed as well and can't go as fast so they would need to start higher up. Also, there are many different speeds you can hit the same table at without overshooting it. If anything a speed track would hold JH more liable for a rider's mistakes.

It is sad the person died, but they don't deserve any money at all. Read the back of your lift ticket and read the signs at the top of the park. It basically says by buying this ticket or entering the park I understand the risks of the sport and that I am soley responsible for my actions. How many people hit that jump that same day and didn't get hurt? Probally a lot. The jump was fine and if you aren't of an ability to hit it, don't.

Finally, not only are people like this bringing down skiing they are ruining society as well. Since when are other people entitled to compensation for stupid things they do to their OWN selves? Lawsuits are just getting more and more rediculous, people need to realize that sometimes you are responsible for your actions and you don't need to find a scapegoat for every mistakes or poor choices you make.
_____________________________________
Andrew Franklin

Packing P's and Thrashing B's since 1986
Oct 24 2004 10:11AM
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Adamskinick
Posts: 3353 - Karma: 126
im not looking for a scapegoat nor do i think the family should receive any money. i am with u guys on this, yes he should receive no $$ but action should be taken in the terrain park. what i meant to say was a speed trap should be regulated. not enforced. basically a marker starting from behind it, is frowned upon but not required. it was retarted for the kid to hit a large jump but you cant sit around and not do anything about it, every year some boarder gets fucking trashed in the park and every year the resorts become more and more reliable. more action should be taken... thats all im saying for the sake of all of us
NS Philosopher
Oct 24 2004 11:06AM
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beer.
Posts: 3096 - Karma: 44
What they should do is put a big line fifteen feet in front of the jump so close that by starting there you will get absolutely no air off the jump, and put a sign that says 'START HERE.' If you do what the sign says, you'll get no air and it will absolutely suck, but there will be no possible way you can get hurt. If you ignore the sign and start from behind the line, you can get air but might get hurt. But then if you sue, they can say 'you didn't start at the line.' There you go, problem solved.

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From now on, I only eat food in bar form. When you concentrate food, you unleash its awesome power, I'm told!
Oct 24 2004 12:23PM
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blaktout1
Posts: 75 - Karma: 10
1 word. Responsibility.
Disgustingly trying to justify an accidental death as per usual in the ol' USA. (I love America though!)
Oct 24 2004 12:23PM
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Stu_epps
Posts: 114 - Karma: 11
It seems the precedent is quasi set, certain inherent risks are understood by the rider when entering a Terrain Park Area. Failure to have a sign present or even poor visibility of the sign will likely be in the riders favorer.
Choosing a bad risk can end it all, as the Table in question was I (think) modified the previous night, the day to day differences are a huge issues. What likely happened was poor lil guy got bucked from a nasty transition in the takeoff? The hit was likely nice and roadout (broken in) the couple days previous then a nasty kick was put on the table.

A substantial amount of Insurance $$ is incurred by simply checking a box stating there is a park. Like $20,000 extra, I wonder if they look into depth to “AT RISK PARKS�

There is also a lack of “consistent park grooming standards�, Cutters Camp should help aid “consistent park grooming standards� for the benefit of all. (Customers, Park Cutters, Management and Insurance Companies). It is likely going to be a mom and pop type area with a really shity park that will hurt the park game if at all, I hope not.

Who is for “Cutters Cult�---Attempting to set safety standards in Terrain Parks. For a fun and safe time for everyone.

Oct 24 2004 1:22PM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
did anybody actually read that? the appeal got dismissed, meaning jackson hole doesn't owe this person shit (unless i read it wrong)

that's why i'm stoked on the new colorado law that says people can't sue ski areas for anything involving their own stupidity



-Strode



Only in my sweetest dreams do my streams lack troubled waters, shallow pools full of shallow fools...
Oct 24 2004 1:42PM
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Baker
Posts: 1615 - Karma: 18
First off the kid that died, adad harshman, wasn't an intermediate snowboarder. He was on the pro track. Him and Travis Rice were good friends and he was good friends with my sister. it was really a bummer when died. the problem was i was the first year that jackson got a real table top and kids were getting fucked up off of it left and right. He just hit the jump with too much speed, fucked up a flip and came down in the flats on his head, snapping his neck. The landing on the jump wasn't too big either. It really came down to what he did though, if he lived he would have said it was his fault anyway.


__________________________________________________
- Josh Rainey
- Jackson Hole

I ain't the type of brotha made for you to start tessin', give me a smith and wesson and i'll have niggas undressin' -nas

'And if i get caught then my ass is up north, straight on the course for upstated New York'-The Mobb
Oct 24 2004 2:37PM
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Baker
Posts: 1615 - Karma: 18
and the take off the jump was steep at all, it was pretty mellow.


__________________________________________________
- Josh Rainey
- Jackson Hole

I ain't the type of brotha made for you to start tessin', give me a smith and wesson and i'll have niggas undressin' -nas

'And if i get caught then my ass is up north, straight on the course for upstated New York'-The Mobb
Oct 24 2004 2:46PM
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skibum193
Posts: 3737 - Karma: 33
wow that sucks. but i definately agree about the courts letting people sue over anything. some burglar sued this lady becuse when he tried to rob her house by coming in through the skylite, he sliced his leg on a kitchen knife that he fell on, and seh had to pay him 10000 dollars

windells holiday sesh, dec 26-Jan 2

'i ski powder only, not park'
Oct 24 2004 2:59PM
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JoeKing
Posts: 80 - Karma: 10
The way I read it is that the jump was changed the night before and that he came in expecting the jump he'd hit before only to find out too late it wasn't. The civil suit was dismissed on the grounds of the inherent risk of snowboarding. The appeal is whether that applies in this case because Jackson Hole follows no guidelines in the construction of the jumps.
I can't tolerate intolerant people!
Oct 24 2004 3:08PM
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Baker
Posts: 1615 - Karma: 18
Skibum, didn't you get that from Liar Liar?


__________________________________________________
- Josh Rainey
- Jackson Hole

I ain't the type of brotha made for you to start tessin', give me a smith and wesson and i'll have niggas undressin' -nas

'And if i get caught then my ass is up north, straight on the course for upstated New York'-The Mobb
Oct 24 2004 3:28PM
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spyder1
Posts: 1529 - Karma: 11
ya i remember hearing that story on Liar Liar




Your Toughtest Competitor Lives in Your Head. Some days his name is Fear. Or Doubt. Or Gravity. Stomp his Ass


I AM CANADIAN!!!
Oct 24 2004 5:48PM
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skihillraod
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 45
Last year at A51 some chick crashed into the snowfence blinding through the park directly sideways, and both myself and my buddy were collided into in odd situations where the other person was almost or totally knocked out. Thinking about a helmet this year for those people, not me.


Duffman can't breathe .. oh no
Oct 24 2004 5:58PM
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jibtastic
Posts: 4391 - Karma: 67
There are usually signs every where saying ski park and manmade features at your own risk and all that stuff..
A table is manmade..so he did it at HIS OWN risk. Its not the resorts fault he didn't execute the table correctly.



------------------
that is quite jibtastic, sir.

'skiboards look horrible on rails, they do however looking amazing over 15 foot tables.'
-mommy on snowlerbladlerering
Oct 24 2004 7:34PM
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kinosoo
Posts: 925 - Karma: 10
i hope something like this does not lead to something where you half to take a test or something to enter the park. something like that will just increase operation cost and the hill will just turn that increase over to us making things more expensive. besides that would also make it a lot harder for new people to get into the sport.
yo
Oct 25 2004 9:10AM
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Ryno
Posts: 31125 - Karma: 336
the reason people sue so much in the US is because when someone gets hurt it cost a bagillion dollars in hospital fees so when they cant afford it they sue to pay for it
______________________________________________________
A view on the downfall of the US by 221:
'godzilla man. he's gonna show up and shit will hit the fan.'

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Ryan V.G

~~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~~
Oct 25 2004 9:14AM
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360spins
Posts: 618 - Karma: 10
A couple of folks were saying above that this sort of thing is not going to close Terrain Parks. Think again my friend.

Where this sort of action will lead is the inability or lack of desire for a resort to operate a park on an Financial level. Resorts carry a huge insurance policy, or in the case of larger resorts (like Intrawest as a whole, and I am sure others) they are self-insured. Every time a claim is made in this way, REGARDLESS of how it is settled, premiums are raised to a point where they approach being unviable.

In terms of fault and resort responsibilty; some of you may recall the Snowboarder in the Park at Whistler who sued the Resort, the School board and Teachers who brought him on a the trip. Though WB settled out of court, they were still found liable for a percentage of fault. I don't think many of you appreciate that the question of 'should we even have a park' was on the table.

The jist of that court action in regards to WB was that no one told the student enough that there was a risk. Like it or not, that is the case. Yes, there is far more signage now, as well as a hard fence around the park, but those are largely in response to this incident. The fact is, that yes there are inherent risks to skiing and riding, but once folks start BUILDING things, the risk changes and increases. Resorts MUST deal with this.

Lesson learned for us: Do what the resorts say in terms of park rules. The mere fact that the parks are there show that they are on our side and want to provide for us. Help them keep the parks operating by working with them within the VERY tight rules that their insurance providers are giving them.



'The money's in the medicine, not the cure!' Harvey
Oct 25 2004 9:21AM
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kinosoo
Posts: 925 - Karma: 10
^^ that’s what insurance is for
yo
Oct 25 2004 9:37AM
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fluff
Posts: 1471 - Karma: 221
Please... Set the example while skiing in our parks. We need every one on the same page, as soon as possible, so we can further pursue the idea that terrain features are just as natural an obstical as moguls, Ice and trees.

While risk management has come leaps and bounds from just a few seasons ago, its cases like these, and those that preceeded it that will ultimatly decide the fate, and could drag us back to the 80's .
Oct 25 2004 10:16AM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
We always hear about these cases but does anyone know how the ones in th past have turned out?

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Oct 25 2004 11:24AM
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pikupfulofsnow
Posts: 2077 - Karma: 9,696
last time i checked, jackson hole had a hole in the wall for a park. maybe the park crew and their intermediate knowledge of building jumps needs to be examined. Did anyone see Pierre's cliff drop in Stimulus? Shit was off the charts!
Oct 25 2004 11:41AM
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huckster989
Posts: 2147 - Karma: 12
see my problem with this is that by ppurchasing a lift ticket to use the mtn and the lifts the kid waved a lot of his rights to Jackson hole as a result. t'd be interesting to see how many other people went off that jup that day and didn't die as a result. if everyone was getting killed i'd say yeah its JH's fault but its not. this is just plan stupid the family needs to re-check their sons role in this accident and even theirs for letting him participate in such a danferous activity, they copuld have told him not to go off jumps or not let him snowboard if it was too dangerous. suing JH is not the answer and probably will never be. this law suit isn't gonna bring their son back and its not gonna make the terrain park and 'safer' becasue they are pretty much as safe as they can get.


M~M~C


Work is like anti-hippie spray; they stay the fuck away from it

Oct 25 2004 11:48AM
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Typical
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 83
my mountain had a faulty box where the take off level was lower than the box, and there was a hole in the box. Coming in switch and intending to disaster, my ski went in the hole and I flew over and onto my shoulder breaking my collar bone. Even though I was encouraged to sue the mountain, and the box was clearly faulty I did not, because in my opinion my saftey, in this instance, is my responsibility.... and i feel the same is true with this kid.
Oct 25 2004 2:57PM
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skibum193
Posts: 3737 - Karma: 33
i thought i heard it somewhere else, but that might have been it haha

windells holiday sesh, dec 26-Jan 2

'i ski powder only, not park'
Oct 25 2004 3:33PM
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Typical
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 83
By the way...

sueing for health costs is reasonable, sueing for monetary gain is B.S.
Oct 25 2004 4:13PM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
You're a good man.

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Oct 25 2004 6:56PM
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the_friesz
Posts: 1007 - Karma: 18
Man Jackson's terrain park... That sucks about that kid, but he was obviously an idiot. About 4 years ago my friend over shot a jump the and ate shit... Cut his face all up, broke his collar bone, and his arm, got knocked the fuck out, man... It was funny for the first second or so till we saw he didn't get up. But yeah... People sue way too much these days, on top of that I'm sure these people were vacationing there, what a shitty holiday.


'...Smoking's bad, smoking killed my dad. Yeah, he was driving down the highway one day and as he was lighting his cigarette, it blew out the window. So he jumps out the door to save it, and ran himself over. Uh, you mind if I smoke?' -Olie Ollaussen, Ski Bum extraordinaire
Oct 25 2004 7:15PM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
Yeah Lat year they shortened up this jump a bunch at my hill and I over shot the landing bad and got knocked the fuck out. I wasn't pissed at the resort or anything. It's not like I was expecting a sign or some shit. It was my own fault.

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Oct 26 2004 12:46PM
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Baker
Posts: 1615 - Karma: 18
Jackson's park crew knows what they're doing. The director was a co-founder of camp of champs and a few semi/ex-pros who know how to hit shit and drive a cat. And for any of you who went to empire freeride, they took care of all that stuff too.


__________________________________________________
- Josh Rainey
- Jackson Hole

I ain't the type of brotha made for you to start tessin', give me a smith and wesson and i'll have niggas undressin' -nas

'And if i get caught then my ass is up north, straight on the course for upstated New York'-The Mobb
Oct 28 2004 10:48PM
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360spins
Posts: 618 - Karma: 10
This is true - JP hasn't been at the camp of champs for a couple of years, but he knows what he is doing.



'The money's in the medicine, not the cure!' Harvey
Oct 29 2004 9:03AM
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