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2013 Armada mount issues?

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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Any other techs out there have a problem with 2012-2013 Armada's stripping out at less than 4 N-M of torque? I've mounted 3 different models this year that have given me trouble and needed helicoils. They have all called for a 4.5x9.75 bit, but after the first 3 I have made some changes. I have had better success with a 3.6x9,5 tapped. I usually wont tap a ski that has no metal but this seems to work best on their skis.

Anybody else having these issues with Armada this year? I sent an email to Armada but have gotten no reply yet.

Cheers!
Oct 10 2012 1:47AM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
No experience with this, but don't they have drillbit specifications printed on the topsheet?
Oct 10 2012 2:46AM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
4.5x9.5 no tap. Thats what was stripping out. Sometimes you have to make adjustments.
Oct 10 2012 3:00AM
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Newschool_Pope
Posts: 2473 - Karma: 267
threads. armada had some pullout issues before, especially with marker bindings. very interested.
Oct 10 2012 4:21AM
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iffe
Posts: 984 - Karma: 120
I'm not a very experienced binding mounter, but I was mounting some skis last season and the AR7s (2011-2012) were the only ones that had issues with the threads stripping.
Oct 10 2012 4:55AM
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Chucktheweasel
Posts: 551 - Karma: 128
Armada recommends using the "Step Drill System: 3.5/4.1 x 9.5." You can get the bit through your rep or the company. Also, Marker makes a similar bit. I wouldn't go around advertising that you are using a "4.5 x 9.75" bit. It is not what is recommended for those skis. You can't even get that size through SVST or Wintersteiger for bits.

On a good note, every Armada I have drilled has been rock solid for the past couple of years.
Oct 10 2012 10:15AM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
I meant 4.1, I have no such size as a 4.5.

There are issues this year, I have only had this issue with armada skis from this year (TST, JJ AK, JJ). I was letting people know that I have had better luck with the smaller 3.5 bit, so thank you for reiterating what I had stated previously.

And Armada replied saying that they are looking into it. I guess they have gotten several emails. Until they respond again, I recommend 3.5x(whatever needed depth) and 3.5 N-M torque.
Oct 10 2012 12:03PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
From what I've found, the only reason to ever drill 4.1 is when the screws are just too tight to turn in by hand. That's usually in skis that have titanium, in which case I still only drill 3.8 max.

But even with my ace of spades which had TI in them I just drilled 3.6 and counter sunk the holes maybe 1-2mm. I've found that counter sinking all the holes just a little bit completely eliminates the problem of the topsheet blistering up and preventing a flush mount. Using this method I've never had a screw strip or rip out.
Oct 10 2012 2:49PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Yeah, I would never do that, but thanks for sharing. Counter sinking aside, I wasn't looking for advice. And I know when to use which drill bit, and when to tap the hole. I've been doing this for a long time.

I was simply asking if any other techs were having this issue so I could give Armada a heads up if the problem is widespread, and thought I'd share what has helped resolve the issue.
Oct 10 2012 5:10PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
Stop being rude and closed-minded to these guys that are offering you help and their experiences with mounting the skis. If you aren't getting what you want, don't get mad at them. We can all just assume that you've saved the world and have let Armada know that you are having a problem. You keep responding in the same manner, just let the thread die.
Oct 10 2012 5:23PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Who's being rude? because I said I wont counter sink a screw? The problem is with the wood stripping. I'm trying to see if the issue is wide spread.
Oct 10 2012 5:32PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
see, your problem is that you're being a dumbass as drilling a ski with no metal exclusively with a 4.1 mil bit, or as you were saying, "4.5" which I hope to god isn't what you were using.
If you were a half decent ski tech you would know that armada suggests drilling with a stepped bit that starts at 3.5 and finishes off with 4.1 right at the end, which is, wait for it... THE SAME FUCKING THING AS COUNTERSINKING A 3.5!

So don't listen to what the people in this thread are telling you and keep ruining customers skis because you're an ignorant know it all tech.

If you're going to be an asshole, I am too.
Oct 10 2012 9:44PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
you're lost. Its printed on the ski to drill it with a 4.1.

This was a simple heads up for other techs.

My advice to you...

Kill yourself.

Thread/
Oct 11 2012 4:15PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
I'd kill myself if I fucked up as many skis as you... dipshit.
Oct 11 2012 5:52PM
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BRMN
Posts: 439 - Karma: 14
a good shop would know to use the armada step bit. if you were an account/shop they cared about, they would have given you a step bit. fuck i personally own a set bit from them.
Oct 11 2012 7:18PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
He probably works at Sports Authority
Oct 11 2012 9:06PM
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LivinOuttaBounZ
Posts: 949 - Karma: 382
Damn. Didn't realize this is what he was talking about when he said countersink. I do have a step bit form Armada, and rarely use it. I stand corrected. Thanks BRMN.

Still dont see how it increases by 20%, but I will remember to use it on Armada skis from now on.
Oct 12 2012 12:25AM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,273
bumping this thread

how essential is using the step bit? i always mount my skis at home and i have a 3.5 and a 4.1. i was planning on just using the 3.5 but is the step bit necessary?
Dec 17 2012 2:08PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
This seems like an issue... Why the hell wouldn't you use the armada recommended and supplied bit when mounting armada skis?
Dec 17 2012 2:40PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10582 - Karma: 11,182
this. the bit armada actually gives you is the only one you should use on their skis
Dec 17 2012 10:07PM
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scratchskier321
Posts: 2584 - Karma: 1,347
Yeah I went thru this... Need to get armada drill bit, smh, fiberglass in ski reacts differently to other bits
Dec 18 2012 2:00AM
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CDdesign
Posts: 1015 - Karma: 92
i drilled my JJs all the way with a 3.5x9 bit with the jig, then took the jig off and free handed then with a 4.1x9.5  to just get the top.. pretty much just poked the surface with the 4.1..  that simulates the stepdown bit if you dont have one

measure twice! take your time! but it works fine
Dec 18 2012 11:24AM
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Bender.
Posts: 711 - Karma: 659
Defensive man is defensive.

Jesus man. Chill.
Dec 18 2012 7:22PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,273
yeah i just drilled to 9 with a 3.5 and then poked the metal with the 4.1 afterwards to get the screw through and they grabbed fine
Dec 19 2012 10:27AM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
bingo. anyone else notice they break easily though? and are like 60 bucks a pop. I had to hide our good step bit because idiots kept destroying them.
Dec 19 2012 12:11PM
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pghjibber
Posts: 1298 - Karma: 329
they're 12 dollars per bit.


Dec 20 2012 3:00AM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
You really contributed here. Thanks.
Dec 20 2012 3:18AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
Its just going to be a reiteration of what some of the others said. The shop I'm doing a full tech course at had bits provided by armada to use, I dont understand why you wouldn't use it unless you knew some other reason not to? I don't think they've had any problems with armadas stripping out. They do continue to have top sheet misalignment from armada. At least it's not like the cheese-like cores coreupt used.
Dec 20 2012 5:08AM
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Bender.
Posts: 711 - Karma: 659
Just trying to say you need to lighten up. That post seemed to be more escalated than the situation.

I see you don't do that frequently. Considering after that you followed me into a different thread to talk shit. Real NS champ, eh?
Dec 20 2012 1:01PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
So at first you criticize me for actually being mature and objective on NS, but then when I go down to your level and point out an obvious flaw in how you offer advice you also criticize me.

And your little quips at the end of all your posts aren't that funny and you seem to contradict yourself in every single post. Decide who you want to be, and be it. Don't be a pussy trying to please everyone.
Dec 20 2012 3:05PM
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Bender.
Posts: 711 - Karma: 659
Not trying to be funny, man. I wasn't criticizing you for being mature, I was criticizing you in this post for taking the defensive route. He obviously didn't agree with what you said and you just blow up out of nowhere. Some others lashed out at his, but yours was the most explosive. That's not taking the high, mature route bud. Even though you do seem to be on a high horse of sorts.

Also, please tell me what down to my level is? The only flaws I pointed out is 1) You got defensive to quick, when it was obvious he wasn't agreeing with you 2) You followed me into other thread (definitely taking that mature route) 3) Calling me a hypocrite because kids were throwing shit for no apparent reason and you somehow managed to connect that to this.

Really, though. How did you even remotely get me posting about how annoying it is when people start insulting each other over nothing with telling you to chill out. I'm not trying to please anyone here, I'm speaking my mind on posts AND replies. People do that, so suck it up and get used to it.


I'm gonna go see what you replied to me in the other thread, but it'll probably be the same as this.
Dec 20 2012 3:44PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
I'm not trying to battle wits with you here. This is GearTalk. I don't think you read this thread. You hopped on NS, looked through to start an easy argument, and settled on my statement. It's accentuated by the fact of how old this thread is. My post wasn't "explosive". The OP was ignoring and putting down the advice he specifically asked for so I told him to not make a thread if he was going to deny everyone's input. That is not the point of threads.

People like you bring this section down. I haven't seen you post anything useful in geartalk in my short time here. Clothing threads aside, this is a place to educate on gear, not to prove to yourself that you can think up clever responses and type in a monotonous, plodding fashion to prove you're cool-headed when really you're fuming behind the keyboard.
Dec 20 2012 9:46PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,345
you guys need to either
A) shut the fuck up
B) get the fuck out
C) suck my balls
D) all of the above
Dec 20 2012 9:59PM
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Bender.
Posts: 711 - Karma: 659
I'm not trying to post anything clever, I'm calling you out on your butt-hurt bullshit. I didn't start an argument in anyway here, you did.

He never asked for advice. He was seeing if this problem was widespread, or if he was the only one having trouble. Soooo, who didn't actually read through the thread?

Also, I don't post that much on NS to begin with, that's probably why you don't see me around very often. I mean I've been here slightly longer than you with not even half the amount of posts that you have. Get it?
Usually, at most, I'll sell some shit, buy some shit, and give advice if I feel I'm accurate to what the OP is asking.

This butt-hurt rampage with you is starting to irritate others and myself. Me responding to you, trying to point out you're not full of logic and maturity as you claim to be, and that you need to take a break is equally irritating for me and most likely others.

So, I'm going to let this die. You can keep responding if that soothes your hurt ego. I don't know whatever gets you off, man.


By the way, after checking your feedback, it seems you haven't contributed all that much here. Just sayin'.
Dec 20 2012 10:40PM
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