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Questions on bindings for Billy Goats

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widluk
Posts: 24 - Karma: 11
I'm probably going to pick up some 191 Billy Goats this year for my powder skis, and I have questions about two different topics with regards to bindings for them.  I'm 6' 4", 210lbs, and an advanced to expert skier that skis fairly aggressively.  Lots of tree skiing, chutes, steeps, smaller 10-15 foot cliffs.  I never really ski switch or throw rotations though. 

First topic is will I be ok with a 14 DIN binding, and if so which one?  I don't really ever see myself setting my bindings past 11, which has been fine so far, so I feel like a 14 DIN should be work but would I need a 16 DIN binding from a construction standpoint at my size?  I'm considering the Salomon STH 14 driver and the Rossignol Axial2 140.  The Rossignol I can get for about $150, while I've found the STH for around $200.  Is the STH worth the extra $50?

Second topic is Quiver Killers/Binding Freedom inserts.  I can see myself touring on the BG's eventually, so I intend on eventually picking up some Salomon Guardians as well, but not this year.  I want to have whichever bindings I choose mounted with Quiver Killers so that when I do pick up some Guardians I can swap them out depending on whether I'll be staying inbounds or doing sidecountry that day.  My questions is, are the screw patterns different enough on either of the bindings that I am considering so that I can have inserts for both my alpine bindings and the Guardians on the same ski without having any spots where specific screw holes would overlap preventing this from working?

Thanks for the help!
13 years ago
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50Kal
Posts: 2836 - Karma: 5,541
For your size the metal the better. You fall into a diffrent weight class and most likely need the heavier duty binding.
I actually made a thread a month earlier (and a lot good information came out of it) about getting bindings for my BG(186) as well. Im 5'9'' 170lbs and going with Salomon 14 STH drivers or Tyrolia peaks 15. (not hundred% sure which yet).

https://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/705699/

I say go for bigger din binding for you. Ones on the top of my head are:

Marker Jester pros
Salomon 16 STH (Driver If you want more metal)
FKS 180
Tyroila peak 18

Dont know anything about quiver killer inserts so cant help you there.
13 years ago
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widluk
Posts: 24 - Karma: 11
Thanks for the input, that thread was really helpful too.
13 years ago
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Look for used bindings. You'll be able to find a pair of used fks 155s/180s, sth 16s, 916 steels, or jesters or any other high din binding for in between 150 and 200 either on here or tgr. Especially if you look on tgr, you'll find a lot of high din full metal salomon driver bindings which would be perfect for your size. Just a little while ago, I bought some 916 labs on here in perfect condition for $160. They retail for $480. Talk about a steal. If you absolutely have to buy new, I would look into either the salomon sth DRIVER series or tyrolia peak series. Axial/px 15s will also be good, but that's your call. I can't stress enough, at your size make sure if you get salomons you go for the driver toe. The z toe or the oversized toe has a history of exploding, especially for larger riders. The driver toe is more adjustable and reliable.
13 years ago
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Don't put inserts in the skis yet, worry about it later. Te Guardian's pattern is pretty unknown so just mount your bindings wherever you want now and ski them.
13 years ago
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
I believe the guardian pattern is 4 up front just like a regular solely, but 6 holes in the back, 3 by 3 without the one in the middle like the sth. Saw it on tgr.
13 years ago
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
All speculation. Even if that's correct, the Guardian is a fixed length so unless your boot is around the same length as whatever it's designed around, you'd need to drill more heel holes at least.
13 years ago
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Not speculation, I've seen the mount pattern. The heel is definitely 6 holes, I just don't remember the toe very well.
13 years ago
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snakerton
Posts: 2434 - Karma: 1,977
you'll be fine in 14 din binding. sth will last you forever
13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,855
This picture is relevant to this thread:

Click for larger image

http://www.utahoutside.com/2012/01/salomon-guardian-16-backcountry-binding-review/
13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,855
Also, its probably a reach to expect the bindings to be compatible, you'd have to be really really lucky for your alpine binding to match the Guardian, as someones already pointed out. I plan on doing the Guardian this year for my 191 Tours, I was faced with a similar decision and I just figure I'd rather pay now for a permanent setup that'll last instead of riddling my skis full of mount holes and inserts.
13 years ago
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widluk
Posts: 24 - Karma: 11
Thanks for all the help.  Is there any difference in construction between the STH 14 Driver and the STH 16 Driver other than the DIN?  Because if not I'm thinking 14.  But if the 16 has better durability in addition to a higher DIN I would go that direction.  I don't think I'll go with the 16 steel, if I went with something that heavy I might as well just go Guardian. 
13 years ago
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widluk
Posts: 24 - Karma: 11
I actually want the bindings to NOT be compatible, so there are two completely different sets of screw holes.  I know they won't be fully compatible.  I'm just hoping they wouldn't have any holes which partially line up/overlap but not perfectly, creating a venn diagram type shape which would prevent a screw from fitting, if you follow me.  How much do you plan on using those inbounds?  Because I know that this year I will be 100% inbounds, albeit with a heavy percentage of hike to terrain. 
13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,855
Gotcha. A TGR thread on drilling your own skis should have all the templates for the alpine binding of choice, not sure if they have a Guardian template yet though. If they do, you can just overlay the printed out hole patterns of each setup and see.

I plan to use these pretty much every day theres soft snow, resort or touring around Hood.
13 years ago
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Quick question: why don't you just get some dukes right now?
13 years ago
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widluk
Posts: 24 - Karma: 11
I just know that I won't be touring at all this year, so with the Billy Goats being on the heavy side, I want to keep the weight down somewhere.  I'm a Minnesotan who makes 4-5 trips to the mountains a season, so I get in a fair amount of days, but I'm not heading into the backcountry until I take some avy courses and get all of the necessary equipment.  That being said, there's about a 50% chance that when I start my residency next year I'll be spending 4 years in CO, UT, WA, or OR, and I know if that happens I want to get into sidecountry/backcounty skiing.  So to make a long story short, I'm planning for short term and long term! 
13 years ago
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Definitely a completely different pattern to Salomon alpine bindings. The back two might match, but the front two are wider on the Guardian.
13 years ago
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division.bell
Posts: 2762 - Karma: 1,906
If anyone is interested, I can get some pictures of my Guardians up this evening. They are unmounted and just sitting in a box waiting for skis to arrive.

I can take whatever pictures you guys need, just let me know.
13 years ago
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7286 - Karma: 18,670

I have mounted a few pairs of gaurdians this season so far. It will depend what size your boots are, There are two sizes in the gardian, small which works for most people as it goes up to a 320mm BSL and a larg ewhich works for 320mm and above BSL.

The 4 holes on the front are in the same position regardless of size. They will not match up perfectly with a driver toe, so you should be able to mount both without intering Although it will depend on the size of the boots, Certain BSL will probably interfer worse then others.. Heel pattern wise its 6 linear bolts so differnt to any soll heal. Its harder to say if the holes will interfer on the back as it comes down to two factors, the size of te guardian and the BSL teh orignal bindings were mounted too. Im sure you could set it so you could run both, but really why bother. The Guardians are great bindings. I run STH 16 on my park skis and the guardian felt pretty much as solid. I will be mounting them on my Rocker 122 this season.

Act fast though if your after some. Salomon in North America are pretty much sold out of them already, so when shops sell out thats it, there is no ghost order on them. Same on the Rocker 115, they are pretty much all gone already too, so if your after one get on it fast.

13 years ago
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7286 - Karma: 18,670

Incase your still wondering about this.

Yes there is a differnce, the 16 uses a metal toe stack. This does make it slightly stronger and more durable then the 14 or 12, but it does not weigh much more.

The STH16 steel is way more durable but it weighs a ton, way more then a set of guardians.

Personally I would go 14 or 16 if your not wanting to get a guardian this season. But really i would just get a guardian, just as good hold as a STH 16, not too heavy and gives you lots of options for your skiing

13 years ago
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widluk
Posts: 24 - Karma: 11
Awesome, thanks a ton!  I'm starting to lean towards the guardian now after all of the input.  Thanks everyone.  Let it snow!
13 years ago
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
I am skiing 191 billy goats as well! I "only" weigh 165# but I ski Head Mojo 18s. They are pretty cheap for an 18 din binding, and they have vertical toe release, which is something I am not willing to do without.

But yeah, I wouldn't get anything less than a 15+ din binding at your size.
13 years ago
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