Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Can someone in an unbiased way explain to me what obamacare is.

profile picture
deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Not is it good or bad, just what it is i have heard so many different things i no longer know what to believe.
Sep 4 2012 8:31PM
132 88
profile picture
Will_
Posts: 271 - Karma: 110

because there are no insurace companies.. the government just pays for it..

which is fine, but incredibly high taxes are necessary to fund it. So economic gain is lost both because there are no insurance companies making a profit, and through higher taxes. its a trade off.

A government can spend as much as it wants, and tax as much as it wants. Its easy to make the argument that its justified, necessary for economic equality and fairness. Anyone can say that health insurance is a right and have people cheer. Anyone can say that every human deserves a house regardless of whether or not they can afford it. fine. tax more, spend more.

But the fact is, it isnt sustainable! It just isnt! do you really think you can just spend money that you dont have with no consequences? our country is 16 TRILLION dollars in debt. It doesnt matter what you think you deserve. We cant afford it. And if we keep pretending we can, we will end up just like the family that tries to live beyond their means. Ask them what happens.

These universal healthcare systems in other countries work because these countries have money from their FORMER CAPITALISM. However they are NOT SUSTAINABLE. These countries will go bankrupt.

Again, take the politics out of it. Its a science. Its just the way it works, and we are so much better off if we try to work with the laws of economics instead of pretending they dont exist.

Sep 5 2012 7:48PM
0 2
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
At the core of healthcare costs is the fee for service method. Providers are paid for services rendered and procedures performed instead of preventing the patient from ever needing those procedures to begin with. However this is would be nearly impossible to change outright. There are a lot of creative ways of dealing with the fee-for-service model and the Affordable Care Act allows for the states to experiment on their own and hopefully adopting successes nationally.

The argument that simply opening healthcare markets across state lines eliminate lifetime caps and bans on pre-exisiting conditions because it is good business is simply wrong. It is more effective to the Insurance Company's bottom lines to keep those in place. Regulation is the only way to address those concerns.

And back on the topic of market-based care. The ACA sets up state-level exchanges where providers compete for the business of the uninsured where they must provide minimum level coverage (as dictated by the law) and have to compete on price and other factors.

Also, addressing the overall cost of the bill $940bil is over 10 years.
Sep 6 2012 4:36PM
0 0
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Germany and Switzerland both have "universal" coverage and I would hardly call either of them "former[ly] capitalist"


Sep 6 2012 4:42PM
0 0
profile picture
grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
^you dont need high taxes to cover it, you need to allocate tax money responsibly, with the money weve spent on war in the last 10 years every person in the country could have been adiquitely covered
Sep 6 2012 7:34PM
2 0
profile picture
BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
Obamacare in ONE sentence for ya:

"We're going to be gifted with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, which covers at least 10 million more people without adding a single new doctor but provides for 16000 new IRS agents, written by a committee which chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a congress that did read it, but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a president who smokes with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes for which we will be taxed for 4 years before any benefits take effects by the government which has already bankrupted social security and medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese and financed by a country that is broke."---Dr. Barbara Bellar
Sep 6 2012 9:02PM
0 0
profile picture
_Jesus_
Posts: 2070 - Karma: 260
I think most of these sound biased so here is the most simple explanation I can give of the 'big idea'

The plan calls for all Americans to have health insurance. This obviously leads to more business for the hospitals/insurance companies, so the government spends less money subsidizing them (hospitals/insurance companies). Thats where the "obama cut X dollars from healthcare comes from", its not really "cut" since its being made up for with all the new patients.

If I really made a mistake with the ideas here and didnt just word it wrong, someone correct me. Otherwise, OP didnt want any biased responses in the first place.
Sep 6 2012 9:16PM
0 0
profile picture
_Jesus_
Posts: 2070 - Karma: 260
"obama cut X dollars from healthcare" comes from *

Sep 6 2012 9:18PM
0 0
profile picture
.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7480 - Karma: 11,479
This is the biggest problem. I forget where I read this, but take it with a grain of salt. The numbers of doctors coming up through the education system is actually falling, due to increasing education costs as well as falling wages.
Sep 6 2012 9:19PM
1 0
profile picture
BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
Exactly. Take dental school for example. Not only are dental schools not accepting less and less applicants, but the cost of education for dental school has drastically gone up. One of the reasons the cost of an college education has increased is because the government makes it so accessible to get a college loan. Yes this is good, as it gives people more chances to go to college if they can't afford it. But it has allowed Universities to charge whatever the hell they want, since students aren't paying for it; They just get a bigger loan.

You rarely see people who work their way through college. My dad worked two jobs AND got his doctorate in Dentistry, paying for it all as he went. Loans just make it seem so easy, but will the rising cost of tuition, won't be paid off till the college kids are 50. It's a shitty reality we live in.
Sep 6 2012 9:25PM
1 0
profile picture
oil.
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,254
yup. and with 10 million people trying to see the same doctors, doctors wont be able to see everyone and the quality of care will go down. instead of having 20 quality half hour appointments, a doctor might have to make 40 rushed 15 minute appointments. and im sure your mother told you taking shortcuts almost never works.
Sep 6 2012 9:26PM
0 0
profile picture
aquinn
Posts: 824 - Karma: 217
I'm a nursing student, soon to be RN, and guess what, the poorest of the poor don't pay for healthcare. You do! So offering a government supplied health care option gives these people coverage on the .60 cent on the dollar amount that insurance companies pay instead of the whole 1:1 amount. Taxpayers save .40 cents on the dollar by offering a plan like this to people, because of the way that insurance companies work.

The hospital charges say $1000 for whatever. The insurance company says, we'll pay $600. take it or leave it. And the hospital takes it.

I know several surgeons making well over the $200,000 cut off who are all for obamacare, because they did not grow up privelaged, and understand that there is no reason people should be turned away from the standard of care due to money.

/minirant
Sep 6 2012 9:31PM
0 0
profile picture
seward
Posts: 5233 - Karma: 2,174
exactly.

more like with the money you have spent on military funding in a year could solve world hunger.
Sep 7 2012 9:38AM
0 0
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Can we stick to the beef of what is actually in the law and not outright partisan attacks?


Sep 7 2012 2:07PM
0 0
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
You are kind of on the right track. It does require individuals to purchase insurance and medium to large business to provide it for the employees or else pay a "fine" which the Supreme Court ruled is a "tax." However it does provide subsidization to individuals based on income to assist their purchasing of these plans.

As it does not create any "government run" healthcare plan that competes with existing private insurance plans, that means that (unless you qualify for medicaid by being very low income or medicare by being older) that you need to purchase Private insurance. It is a huge boon for the insurance industry as they will add several millions of new subscribers.

The current talking point regarding cutting X dollars from medicare refers to part of the law that cuts funding for what is called "medicare advantage." Medicare advantage offers those who qualify the opportunity to have the government pay a private party (Kaiser or Blue Cross for example) instead of covering the patient under standard medicare where the government pays for care rendered. The cost issues with medicare advantage are 2 fold: The overheard on private plans is always more than the government. Of every dollar spent on standard Medicare $0.98 is spent on care compared to ~$0.83 for private insurance. Second, standard Medicare has been far better at containing costs than private insurance. Consistently its costs have increased at slower rates than comparable private plans.

The other "cuts" in Medicare come from reduced payments to providers. It just means that it will pay slightly less for various services provided. The providers are aware of these changes several years in advance so as to allow them time to improve efficiency to make up for the reduced payments. For example when I was working for a Medicare provider the company knew reimbursements were going to decrease and thus improved efficiency in turn increasing profit in the midst of the payment cutbacks.


Sep 7 2012 2:26PM
0 0
profile picture
shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
The defense budget in unsustainable...Universal health care is functional...

Just for perspective the department of defense budget for 2010 amounted to 1.2 trillion dollars. Why is this grossly bloated budget not being slashed to deal with social issues....America has money for a war machine but none for average hard working citizens? Perhaps the idea of affordability has more to do with prioritizing budgets in the U.S....A universal healthcare system can easily be maintained with a fraction of the military budget, especially if you consider that the healthcare system in Canada actually cost less per capita that the U.S private system....




Sep 7 2012 2:34PM
0 0
profile picture
Phormat
Posts: 774 - Karma: 20
I think what too many people fail to realize is the benefits this plan has for the long term. Yes there are a substantial amount of low-income and/or unhealthy people in this country that shift much of the burden of healthcare costs on both the middle and upper classes.

The question you need to ask then is, how do we reduce the amount of low-income and/or unhealthy people?

By providing healthcare for as many people as possible, even if it increases burden (which PPACA may not). Improving education and making it more affordable; leading to better understanding of the benefits of exercise and nutrition. A smarter and healthier workforce leads to better efficiency and provides a boost to the economy.


Nobody said it was going to be easy, but short term goal making rarely solves the most pressing issues. We need to endure a little sacrifice our on our parts to ensure the best future down the road.







Sep 7 2012 2:40PM
1 0
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
This is an issue however the federal student loan reform of a few years ago did a good job of tying repayment rates to a fixed percent of income which should ease the debt burden.

Furthermore, we have had an increase in what academia calls "doctor extenders" or non-MD/DO care providers such as Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners.

Also, there is something to be said about the style of medical education that we rely on in this country. We have plenty of qualified young people ready, willing, and qualified to go to medical school but simply not enough open spots. California was about to open its first new medical school in decades but couldn't find room in the budget and delayed it for a few years.

Wages have been falling across the board but many in the field of healthcare research attribute (other than general market conditions) the decline in physician wages to the increase in "doctor extenders," debt burden, and yes medical malpractice insurance costs. Even states like California and Texas with caps on malpractice suits have seen the malpractice costs go up. It would have been nice to have this in the ACA, however anyone thinking this to be the cure to rising healthcare costs is sorely mistaken.
Sep 7 2012 2:41PM
0 0
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
But the students are paying for it down the line in loan repayment. Even if you declare bankruptcy they will not expunge student loan debt. This is a huge misunderstanding of economics.
Sep 7 2012 2:44PM
0 0
profile picture
volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Yes, private insurance tends to pay better than medicare and thus at greater "reimbursement" rates. However medicare still pays at sustainable rates for hospitals to make a profit. Part of the issue is the gross overcharging that providers undertake in order to try and drive up the cost of reimbursement. Furthermore, we are hobbled with what is not a free and open market for care. You generally must go to hospital X for inpatient care or surgery because your private insurance contracts with them instead of hospital Y.

Medicaid is an entirely different animal. Way underfunded at the national and state levels.

There is nothing outright requiring providers to accept medicare and/or medicaid. However they usually make up the bulk of most healthcare patients and providers would be remiss at missing out on their business (particularly medicare).
Sep 7 2012 2:52PM
0 0
profile picture
Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
It's nice to see Obamacare working out so well for so many people.

Never have I had a better reason not to buy insurance. That 3:1 ratio on old to young person rates is just great. I guess no more terrain parks for me, compliments of Obama.
Nov 14 2013 2:10PM
1 0
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
The angst against it is just stupid middle class people wanting to feel lucky they have health insurance and in turn they are advocates for slavery and oppression by putting forth a belief that people should have to work for health insurance.


You are a complete and utter piece of shit if you think people do not deserve health insurance as a born right and in the same way people deserve public education.


A real indictment on how sad and pathetic American social values really are these days.  Luckily I have citizenship in a county that doesn't look at health insurance in such a stupid and backwards way.
Nov 14 2013 7:28PM
1 1
profile picture
GRouseee
Posts: 37 - Karma: 43
I understand your argument, but i would be inclined to argue that although people do deserve public education, they don't' necessarily deserve to have the "born right" to health insurance. Public education is important so that people can learn, and acquire the knowledge needed to succeed in the workplace, in order to afford health insurance.

Now I realize that not all schools are equal, and not everyone receives the same quality of education. I think maybe we should reform education before health care.

Also, I'm not trying to get a bunch of hate, I realize that my opinion could be wrong, I'm not political or law expert. I'd be happy to listen to other people's opinions.
Nov 14 2013 9:54PM
0 0
profile picture
AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
all that shit costs a hell of a lot less than a visit to a drs office. I dropped a grand the other day at the drs office, because i needed to see a specialist and he doesn't take my insurance. it aint cheap

and by no ways will this make it cheaper. Now not only will i have to pay to have health insurance for myself, but i will HAVE to pay for those who can't work/think/do for themselves.

HAVE because it's law that i need insurance, maybe i dont want it. Land of the free, no, more like land of the bow down to the government, shut up, and be looted.
Nov 14 2013 10:01PM
0 0
profile picture
AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
Also, the government having there hands on your medical records, is like them owning you, more than they already do.

Nov 14 2013 10:03PM
1 1
profile picture
.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
He's not arguing about a born right to health insurance he's arguing for a born right to health care that is affordable to the average person or maybe affordable to even those that are in poverty. In my opinion this isn't a horrible idea but it seems that the Obama administrations solution to the healthcare problem is the ACA while I would argue that it does nothing with the overinflated costs that are currently bankrupting so many people.
Nov 14 2013 10:08PM
2 0
profile picture
clive_bixby
Posts: 1834 - Karma: 499
If you took the greed out of it, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Healthcare companies don't give a shit if you stay alive, they want you to spend as much money as you can (before you die). Ever notice how many pills we have and then the side effects? It's retarded. Fuck healthcare and fuck healthcare being a business. Promote education in this god foresaken country. We promote the dumbest fucking ass holes on tv and now kids want to grow up and be stupid. Education is the number 1 problem this country has. Were getting boned by the people we elected, and are to stupid to see it.
Nov 14 2013 10:11PM
2 1
profile picture
clive_bixby
Posts: 1834 - Karma: 499
So much this. What the department of homeland security is doing behind closed doors here in America is scary. Police state dawg
Nov 14 2013 10:16PM
0 0
profile picture
GRouseee
Posts: 37 - Karma: 43
Okay, yea I would agree that health care should be at an affordable price. I do think that a little hard work to get health care doesn't hurt. And i agree that the way Obama is dealing with it, isn't really solving it.
Nov 14 2013 10:39PM
0 0
profile picture
coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
Its an expansion of medicaid
Nov 14 2013 11:30PM
0 5
profile picture
Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
All you need to know is it is a failing system which now even democrats are trying to delay, it will be delayed and enventually repealed all together. Biggest fail since Tim Tebow tried out for the Patriots.
Nov 14 2013 11:42PM
0 1
profile picture
coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
Shows that government cant do anything worth shit
Nov 15 2013 12:36AM
0 2
profile picture
deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
You're already doing that, who do you think pays the hospital when someone can't pay the ninety thousand dollar bill.
Nov 15 2013 1:14AM
1 1
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
Why should having health insurance be a goal someone has to work for?

Its truly embarrassing that American people don't they deserve to go to the hospital if they are sick without paying for it.  All the money that gets spent/wasted on the military, all the money corporations steal by not paying taxes, all the money that is wasted paying public sector employees overinflated salaries....are you (not you GRouseee specifically Im just addressing all Americans with the same attitude to healthcare) all so stupid that you would rather have that instead of health insurance?


The sad fact is right now in 2013 if a politician wants to bring free healthcare to all he will be slammed for it.  THe 1% has tricked all you stupid morons into feeling this way (and who do you think is cashing in on healthcare being run like a corportation/pyramid scam) and thinking you should have to work to have health insurance.  Its a JOKE.


I love America I've spent time all over it and I am someone who embraces capitalism.  I scalp tickets for a living find a better capitalist than me.  Im not a liberal I loathe the wasteful public sector just I am not retarded enough to be a minion for the elite 1% who is destroying our society.  IF you don't think people should be born with a right to health insurance you are part of the problem and you are bending over to be fucked by the ruling 1%.

And what is really sad is the people who feel this way actually aren't idiots like I am calling them.  Smart, educated, intelligent people genuinely feel this way.  Its pathetic.
Nov 15 2013 1:37AM
2 2
profile picture
.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
You seem to imply that the ACA would not incur wasteful spending on the level of other social programs, something that is most certainly a false assumption. This, along with the fact that your incoherent rant is based off of calling your audience retarded and mindless minions who are automatically wrong because they don't agree with you makes me think you have a pretty weak background in both economics and argumentation.
Nov 15 2013 1:52AM
2 0
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
The post isn't about economics.  I don't work in healthcare I'd prefer to not debate with someone like VolvoTom who knows about this stuff on a level I don't Im dealing with generalizations.

Its about values.  Values.  Not economics.  Your free to disagree that we could spend the money we do on military on health insurance I am not saying they are dollar for dollar equal I am just saying that our society currently values one over the other.  And its stupid because the United States is not under threat of an invasion.


You don't value people having a natural born right to go to the hospital.  I think that is completely retarded and is the product of the ruling 1% elite simply fooling you. 

If you are part of that 1% for whom 5 figure medical bills are affordable than you are not retarded you can have whatever opinion you want. 

If you are part of the 99% and don't think you have the same right to have healthcare as you do to public education than you are a complete fucking retard who has 100% been successfully duped by the wealthy elite. 


(We sort of treat people without insurance and sort of don't I don't want to debate that side of it.)


I don't have a perfect utopian solution to all of our social problems.  I just have common sense to call something fundamentally stupid just that.

And no politician can ever advocate for free universal healthcare again.  Clinton had to give up on it.  Obama...well you know the 1% looks like they have won Obamacare has been deemed a failure.


Itll be 40+ years before a politician has the balls to try and get us health insurance like they have in Europe now the republican smear campaign has worked its magic on Obamacare.
Nov 15 2013 2:20AM
1 1
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
I am embarrassed, ashamed, and disgusted that so many intelligent educated Americans don't think health insurance should be a born right.  That is all.  My views don't extend much beyond that simple opinion.


Nov 15 2013 2:25AM
0 2
profile picture
GRouseee
Posts: 37 - Karma: 43
Don't get me wrong, I agree that way too much money is spent on the military and that corporations steal money. I guess I don't understand how everyone having health insurance will solve those things, maybe I'm missing something?

And I'm not opposed to everyone having health care, I just want to be sure we go about it in the right way.

Also, something I heard and thought was kind of interesting: The cost for healthcare.gov, from what I've seen, is anywhere from $150M - $300M. And the population of the US is roughly 314mill. So instead of building this website, why not just divide the money up evenly between residents of the US? Anywhere from $500K - $1M per person.

I realize that this is impractical because everyone would be rich overnight, and would suddenly be able to afford everything, which would just cause prices to go up (I think, I took economics awhile ago, don't remember everything). However, I thought it was kind of an interesting idea.
Nov 15 2013 2:36AM
0 0
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
The only real benefits of everyone having health insurance is that your average person does not have to live with the fact that going to the hospital will cost them their house if something is seriously wrong with them.

Your average old person right now collects a pension regardless of what their job was.  In 20 years your average old person will not have a pension unless they were a public sector employee.  As we go forward more and more people will be vulnerable to being completely bankrupted just because they need to go to the hospital.

Being old in 50 years isn't going to be fun.


Corporations rule the world there is nothing to be done about that.  You can't tax them without them moving.  No clue how to make the decision makers less greedy.  They employ too many people to take punitive measures really.

The military is too big of an employer to cut significantly without unleashing a depression.  I don't have all the answers there but as people we need to point out things that are inherently wrong.  I appreciate the need to have bad ass seal teams.  I don't think we need a massive active army of regular infantry.  So maybe try and make your average experience for a GI more like joining the peace corps?  Would be a step in the right direction, make us less hated, and probably cost less.
Nov 15 2013 3:00AM
0 2
profile picture
XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
its a tough subject, but i personally dont think it is or should be a born right. we have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we have the right to pursue and obtain happiness and safety, meaning nobody can infringe on your right to seek it. to say you have the right to healthcare is to say you have the right to someone elses life and property, which is completely contradictory.
so no, i dont think you should be born with the right for a doctor to provide you with care.

now my emotional side says its ridiculous to think that someone who needs a procedure should be left dying on the curb outside the hospital if he cant provide himself with the means to acquire health care. that seems pretty fucked. but thats not how it is anyway, without obamacare.

our current system is so overly fucked and corrupt thanks to both the insurance companies and especially the government (so lets let them take complete control?) we need healthcare reform for sure. but i think obamacare is a step in the wrong direction.
the real solution is a true free market system that would force providers to lower costs to stay competitive and stay in business, making healthcare easily affordable.
we see even in Canada where everyone is entitled to free healthcare that patients are receiving poor and slow care, and in turn, arent receiving treatment, or not receiving it in time when its a very time sensitive issue, its happening a lot with cancer patients. I have a friend in medical tourism making bank off Canadians in need of US doctors.
your trading one issue for another, not solving the problem.

now if we manage to make healthcare extremely affordable, but not free, what do we do about the truly poor? the people who cant pay even the most affordable fees? that i honestly dont have an answer for, I dont know what would be the best solution for those people. but it would be much easier to find a reliable solution with the lower costs. i was talking to a 70 something year old retired doctor a couple months ago about this, he said "back in the day" before medicare if someone truly could not afford it, doctors would do the procedures for free, it was the norm, like something you did if you were a doctor, like an agreed responsibility. but it was extremely rare that they couldnt afford it, and there were church's, non profits, etc.. that would also help certain cases.

now it seems weird to trust the good will of doctors and non profits to provide and pay for the care, but it its not like what we have now and will result from obamacare will be any better.



Nov 15 2013 3:39AM
3 0
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
Yeah, there isn't much to disagree with in here when you say that it should be a truly free market open to competition to lower prices.  That would absolutely make things better.   But the current system means heath care is big business and the ruiling elite rich people can profit and make millions off it.  There isn't anything you can do to change that without fundemantally having a different system. 

The only way to cover everyone is to have a system like in Europe.  If you don't have what they do in Europe you will have greed and it will be run like a for profit corporation (or more like a pyramid scam to be honest.)  What you suggest can never happen in practicality.  There is just too much money to be made for the powerful and rich, why would they stop?

In terms of values:

To you: having heathcare=going to college.  The only people who deserve it are those who work for it.


To me: having heathcare=going to public elementary school.  Everyone deserves it.



(All due respect here Im going to be slightly insulting and I don't know how to word this any other way.)  Our society is not progressing and is moving backwards on this particular social topic IMO.  20 years after Bill Clinton tried to bring about universal healthcare the outcry against it in principal is even greater now than it was in Clintons time in office.  Its really hard for me to see someone clearly educated who has thought through such as yourself hold a inhumane, cruel, nasty, and even bigoted position on this subject.  And thats what I think your opinion is if you view going to the doctor as something someone needs to work for.  Its not a fucking Mercedes.


The values of people are what need to change.  Hopefully over the years and in the future people such as yourself will be able to understand that access to healthcare is not a commodity or asset that people should compete for like jobs, houses, and cars, or even secondary education. 

Its OK to make people compete to have a nice house, car or get into a good college/send your kid to a good college.  Its not OK to make people compete for the right to learn how to read or to have their children learn how to read.

In terms of values alone how the fuck does access to doctors and hospitals not fall under the same category as attending a public elementary school?  In terms of values alone you basically equate having the right to see a doctor to having the right to drive a Rolls Royce.  You stated that you expect people to compete for it (And thats what life pretty much is, competition, I am not a bleeding heart advocating free money for everyone just as a society since we are progressed enough to provide education to all I am appalled that healthcare isn't viewed the same way.)

I think Obama care is a step in the right direction because it can always be tweaked and improved.  But educated Americans are acting like boot licking morons lapping up the republican smear campaign against it means ZERO progress is being made.  In fact we are moving backwards. 

Nov 15 2013 4:10AM
0 2
profile picture
PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -674
Im covered by the way I have British citizenship and my kids will have it (not grandkids.)

Im not looking out for myself I have the option to move somewhere that has universal healthcare.  I love America and am looking out for everyone in this great country when I advocate for universal healthcare.


My 8 year old neice in England broke both of her arms extremely badly 2 weeks ago.  I can show you the X-Rays.  THe doctors did such a good job resetting the bone that it didn't need metal rods inserted.  The level of care couldn't have been better.  Her parents aren't wealthy and barely scrape by.  (My other brother is rolling in it but not him.)


Im self employed if I had a kid and they did that here in the US the bill would be more than I earn in a year.  Me and my kid would be sleeping under a bridge as a result of them doing gymnastics.
Nov 15 2013 4:19AM
1 2
profile picture
coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
How about i make you become a doctor and make you treat someone for free. Still sound fair?
Nov 15 2013 9:19AM
2 4
profile picture
GRouseee
Posts: 37 - Karma: 43
Post the xrays.
Nov 15 2013 12:16PM
2 0
profile picture
Belzebub
Posts: 451 - Karma: 812
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, fucking retard
Nov 15 2013 5:11PM
4 1
profile picture
deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Click for larger image

Click for larger image
Nov 15 2013 5:25PM
4 1
profile picture
Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,896
Subject: Can someone in an unbiased way explain to me what obamacare is.

The biggest cluster fuck in history.

/thread
Nov 15 2013 6:26PM
0 2
profile picture
deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Wow man thanks, that was a really unbiased post that shared the pro's and con's of the ACA.
Nov 15 2013 6:35PM
0 0
profile picture
Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,896
Sorry to be a shit, but I have a better idea. Why don't you get on the site and sign up for insurance. Then you can explain to us how great it is.

The cons are being covered daily by every media outlet now. The pros, if any, do not seem to be as blatantly obvious.
Nov 15 2013 7:21PM
2 2
profile picture
AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
I know several people who were dropped by their insurance company and no longer have insurance, and zero who had no insurance before and now have some.
Nov 15 2013 7:27PM
2 0
profile picture
coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
Yeah just call me a retard because you have nothing to say in response... Fucking tool
Nov 15 2013 7:51PM
0 2
All times are Eastern (-5)