Another Reason Bush Scares me

wow, true Christians are some of the strongest people I have ever met. not weak people scared of their own shadow. Christians for hundreds of years have been able to stand against persecution, and be killed or mangled for their beliefs. read some stories of the persecution, and you'll realize how strong a person who truely has God on their side is
-Joe
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'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY
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I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

Golden Wheel Chair Award 2004-09-21

lagwagon, youre an idiot. in case anyone had forgotten.

















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside

i hadnt
-Joe
______________________________________
'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY
Rollers of NS unite!!!
603 for life
I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

Golden Wheel Chair Award 2004-09-21

Er... guys... I'm not sure it's in religion's best interests to bring up persecution in a discussion about Christianity. Just a thought.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

this is pointless, because Kerry is open of his faith too, priests trying to not let him take communion because of being pro choice but kerry saying that he will take communion no matter what.

what about kerry's line in the last debate: 'everything is a gift from the almighty.' Yep, terrorism is a gift from the almighty.

this is just a poor discussion topic to compare presidents.
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so kerry's just as open about his faith as President Bush, so where's the debate in this discussion?
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there goes the nation.





-Lauren


Lauren and Ella: together changing teenaged boys lives since 2001.

THE FIST OF FURY
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fuck religion.
May all your interventions be Humanitarian.

I'm not even going to bother framing this with comment; decide for yourselves.
''I am invested with a divine mission: to promote a biblical world view through the policy of the United States.'
-George W. Bush

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

most of you guys defending bush are completely missing the point.

___________________

Kerry/Edwards '04

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you kind of have to frame it though... like, where and when did he say that? or... was it just something that humanistsusa.org printed up?















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside

^it was in an interview with an austin news paper.

This is NOT a comparison of two men running for president Dave, Kerry being open with faith in the debate has nothing to do with any thing that I'm talking about. What Kerry spoke about in the debate was a direct result of Bush being given a question about HIS faith, and his 'apealing to a higher athority' when pondering war in Iraq. (mind you he had a very round about answer that never really adressed the actual question) when bush was done with his 2 minutes kerry had his time to make a reply, and I think it would have been pretty dumb for him to say nothing, and I'm sure he felt the same way, so he spoke about his faith.

And putting the words into Kerrys mouth that terrorism is a gift from the almighty is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard in a political thread on this website. Seriously.

Agrosk8... I just want you to be aware, christians don't know the first fucking thing about being persecuted.

not a fucking thing.












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qualities solidity well finished after sale services (if broken, ..). so what do you think? out of one fact: armadas black and PINK is ugly and faggy!

The JEWS... well, now, they might be able to speak on this one.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

i'm just saying he could have been better to say all ood comes from the almighty, I didn't mean it as a fanatic attack, just that when u say all, it comes across as 'all'.
---------------
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oh, im not talking about the christians in ths country, we have it way too easy. im talking about the Christians in foreign lands in this century. this time period more christians have died then ever before. im working on backing this up. i will have sources soon
-Joe
______________________________________
'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY
Rollers of NS unite!!!
603 for life
I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

Golden Wheel Chair Award 2004-09-21

Um, more PEOPLE have died this century than ever before. ESPECIALLY Jews. That's like that statistic that says 'most crashes occur close to home', which only sounds impressive until you realize that that's where you do all your driving.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

dude seriously, put a sock in it about Christians being persecuted. The only reason they're being 'persecuted' is because they are over in some country like Iran, or Afganistan, or some other developing country trying to convert indigenous people to christianity. Think about it. There is no other major religion on earth that sends 'missionaries' to convert people. If the missionaires didn't go to these places, and try to change people that have been following the same practices and beliefs since ancient times, they wouldn't be getting hacked up, spit on, and called fithly names by locals that aren't so keen on what they are doing in their native land.

When christians get draged out of their homes in first world countries, rounded up into cattle carts by the multi millions and are shipped off to die in gas chaimbers just because they are christians, we can start talking about this again.












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qualities solidity well finished after sale services (if broken, ..). so what do you think? out of one fact: armadas black and PINK is ugly and faggy!

i hate to bring this back up. but, i got some proof on the christian persecution thing.

oh, and its not the missionaries being killed (they get shipped, as the government of those countries arent going to start international incidents). its the local people who are worshipping be hind closed doors.

-“During this century, we have documented cases in excess of 26 million martyrs. From AD 33 to 1900, we have documented 14 million martyrs.�

-two million ethnic Armenian Christians were massacred between 1905 and 1918, a genocide which the Turkish government still denies.

-300,000 ugandan believers in 1979

-During the past 30 years, 30,000 have been driven from their homes (in the chiapas) and hundreds have been murdered.

-In 1997, most difficult years for the Chiapas people, because at least 500 people were killed in different villages for the 'crime' of embracing the Christian faith.

My my source, although you'll probably consider it 'propaganda', because thats what you call every source you don't like


-Joe
______________________________________
'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY
Rollers of NS unite!!!
603 for life
I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

Golden Wheel Chair Award 2004-09-21

I won't discount it JUST because it's Christian, but could you please post your source's sources if you're going to quote something like that, from now on? They should be at the bottom.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

theyre in the article. i gotta go otherwise i would find and list em.
-Joe
______________________________________
'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY
Rollers of NS unite!!!
603 for life
I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

Golden Wheel Chair Award 2004-09-21

All you people complaning about 'seperation of church and state' are a bunch of idiots who need to take a history class. seperation of church and state has NOTHING to do with what a person believes, christian or not, it has to do with the time in history when the church ruled a counrtry, or had a huge influence on decisions. predominantly this was a problem in europe with the catholic church. that is why in the U.S. constitution it talks about being a seperation of church and state. if it had anything to do with what a person's beliefs were, u cant just talk about prez bush, you would also need to bring ur 'cause' against most of the presidents that were in office during the entire timespan of this country. you are just looking for a nother lame excuse to bash bush, so just stfu, because u dont know what you are talking about

oh yeah, one more thing, if u complain about bush being a christian, then complain about Kerry too, he says he's one

well, apparently hes being excommunicated now. so we dont have to worry about that pesky religion issue anymore.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside

'religion shouldn't be mixed with politics at all. everytime a politician ends his speech with the (in)famous 'God bless America' I want to puke. It is WRONG. It offends me, and I am not alone. What is the point of that stupid message anyway? please someone explain it to me.'
~ kollac


its not WRONG, if it was wrong, why would nearly every president end speaches that way? if it was wrong why would the declaration of independence, have '... endowed by their creator (implying God)...?' if it was wrong, why would our country have been founded on christian and biblical principals? it probably offends a lot of people, but thats the truth, what if i said, you offend me? i probably offend people everyday, and you probably do too, so just grow up and realize that the world isnt a place where everything is perfect and everyone gets along.

Jibtech if this is true 'I just want you to be aware, christians don't know the first fucking thing about being persecuted.

not a fucking thing.'

explain it, no reason is a fucking reason without explanation, or that just shows that your trying to be controversial for just to be controversial.

I'd say something, but i think that i just be mostly repeating what Jibtech has been saying. You guys need to wake up and realize that this country isnt like what it was when it was founded and that Americans might have other religions....
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Rowen

'Aren't you Buzz Lightyear?'
*whispers* 'I love your movies!'
'URAAAAFWAAAGAAA!!!'

yes thats true, but all you people seem to do is rat on Christians, why not go for other people? its because you dont like what Christians are saying. once again ill say, grow up, the world isnt a place where everyone gets a long.

Ok, personally, I dont care what you believe in or who you worship, just so as long as it doesnt fuck with what I think and how I want to live my life. Christians feel that they have to save others from sin, and while that may be a worthy cause if there is such a thing as a heaven or hell, my beliefs shouldn't be influenced by anyones decision other than mine.

That why I get really pissed when legislation, like a ban on gay marriage, tries to get passed that has clear christian undertones. Theres no other real reason people have a problem with, for example Gay Marriage, other than christian beliefs that say its a sin. I'm not gay, so it probably wont ever effect me in any way, but i still have a problem with it because its basically christian doctrine getting spread across the entire nation. Thats my two cents...
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Rowen

'Aren't you Buzz Lightyear?'
*whispers* 'I love your movies!'
'URAAAAFWAAAGAAA!!!'

yeah. kerrys pandering to the right voters lately )guns & god) is really making him look desperate. if he had puller it out earlier, that would be another story

*SHUDDER*
_________________________
'You're from Ontario, and you're an idiot, meaning that your opinion can pretty much automatically be dismissed worthless. Yes, I can back that up, I used to live there. Moving to BC really opened up my eyes to what skiing is really about. HINT: Skiing isn't about tiny verticals, shit talking, and private clubs galore. Get the fuck out of Glen Eden and Craigleith or Caledon, and get real.'-what jib this thinks of me

read my sig






“This sort of behavior is left to the psychotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist believers you see on your TV everyday letting off bombs and killing people in the name of God. Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing...'Maynard James Keenan

ok, so banning gay marraige is strictly christian? ok, muslims torture homosexuals to death (im not saying its right) and many other religions are against homosexuality. so it seems to not supporting homosexuality is more of a moral stance than purely christian
-Joe
______________________________________
'Really, I gotta say that I'm glad you exist, 'cause if there wasn't there'd be noone to make fun of and diss.'

Solider in the NS ARMY
Rollers of NS unite!!!
603 for life
I'm conservative, just so you all know.

Member Number: 5172

Golden Wheel Chair Award 2004-09-21

^Oh really? And precisely what moral theory are you subscribing to there? What makes it generally immoral?

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...

are you talking about gay marriage or homosexuality in general.

did you know... 'UNDER GOD' was inserted into the pledge of Aligence in the 1950's. It was ment to unify the US against the 'godless monster' that was the Soviet Union. Befoe 1954 the pledge read like this:

'I pledge aligence to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the republic for wich it stands, one nation, indivisible, with libery and justice for all.'

In 2002 Michael A. Newdow, an Atheist from Sacramento, CA, was distressed because his daughter in second grade was required to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. She was thus forced to acknowledge the existence of God. He said: 'I'm an American citizen. I don't like my rights infringed upon by my government.' He wants to raise his daughter as an Atheist and feels that the government is interfering with his wishes. He called the Pledge a 'religious idea that certain people don't agree with.' Being both a lawyer and a physician, he initiated a lawsuit and argued this own case. It was dismissed by a federal judge in California. In 2002-JUN, a three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voted 2 to 1 in his favor. They declared the Pledge to be unconstitutional because it includes the words 'under God.' They ruled that the phrase implies a government endorsement of religion, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...'


Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the majority: 'A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion.' He also wrote that an Atheist or a believer of certain non-Judeo-Christian beliefs could view the Pledge as an attempt to 'enforce a 'religious orthodoxy' of monotheism.' Judge Goodwin wrote that any student who objects is confronted with an 'unacceptable choice between participating and protesting...Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge.















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qualities solidity well finished after sale services (if broken, ..). so what do you think? out of one fact: armadas black and PINK is ugly and faggy!

'yes thats true, but all you people seem to do is rat on Christians, why not go for other people? its because you dont like what Christians are saying. once again ill say, grow up, the world isnt a place where everyone gets a long.'
-sherpasrock

K... maybe they 'rat' on each other because they aren't getting along? 'Us' people don't just 'rat' on christians. What some people don't like is when decisions are made 'in the name of God'. If you don't think highly of religion, that isn't a very good motive. I'm not saying that is the current situation, but that is what the original link suggests.
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that neudow case was a load of poo. his daughter and ex wife are christians who were more than happy to recite the pledge as presently constituted. in fact, that was the reason that the case was ultimatly tossed. he didnt have grounds to bring the case on his daughters behalf.

was he really distressed for his daughter? i think not. distressed over the loss of custody?. thats a little more like it.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside

why is it that people talk about religous groups as if there is a collective memory between the members of these groups? many christians have been persecuted recently and throughout history. that dosnt mean that a north american christian has the faintest clue of what thats like. I am jewish but have personally experienced very little anti-semitism in my life (*cough* Lord_Piot *cough*), and altho my family is directly connected to the holocaust, as many are, i couldnt possibly understand persecution on that level. im also disturbed by sherpasrock's argument of put up and shut up, the government and the president say it so it must be ok. thats the kind of complacency that gives them the power to infringe on your rights


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