For the sake of the Aurora threads, take your gun control discussion here.

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Crazy Fool

a shoot out between two citizens is better than one guy shooting everybody. who knows, maybe even the good guy will win

simple logic can tell us that

Jul 23 2012 3:05AM

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Ridiculous

simple logic can tell us its a dark, contained environment completely packed with people. do you really think two guys shooting it out with each other is such a great idea? the theatre was also filled with smoke from smoke bombs, and the shooter was packing three weapons including an AR-15 and a shotgun. I don't think a shootout between two citizens who, as mentioned before, had no combat experience would have been a whole lot better

Jul 23 2012 5:37AM

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No Life

why are you posting in this thread? None of his matters to you.

I have when people rom outside the US post in something that doesnt relate to them like politics, or gun control in this case. If you dont live in this country you dont get the values we have, it might seem unrealistic to you, but this is something that is part of america and something someone who doesnt live here will never understand.

Jul 23 2012 9:19AM

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vauban08

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Ridiculous

Oh come on, there's nothing wrong with posting as a foreigner. It's how you address the topic that counts. I'm from a country with a very liberal gun law and I still don't like it, for several good reasons.

Jul 23 2012 10:27AM

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SkierX

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Post Whore

You are making claims that are entirely untrue and treating them as absolute facts. Your claims have zero basis in truth and reality.

Anyone with the SLIGHTEST awareness of global current events can rattle off a handful of mass murders and serial killings that has happened outside of the United States in recent times alone.

Hell, the worst public mass killing to date did not take place in America, so saying that they are not in the same scope and size outside of America is flat-out incorrect.

Of course the United States is going to have a larger overall list of serial killers, they have a MUCH larger population than the other developed countries that would actually be recognizing acts committed by serial killers.

Jul 23 2012 12:12PM

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Crazy Fool

simple logic tells us that if holmes was focused on being in a fire fight maybe more people could have escaped.

and you know nothing about weapons. an Ar-15 is a glorified 22. sure, it will kill the crap out of people but its not exactly a devastating ammo choice

Jul 23 2012 12:57PM

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fujarome

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Crazy Fool

it wouldn't have been much of a shoot out though. It likely would have been random gunfire coming from seemingly everywhere because neither could successfully target the other.

No one seems to realize that the scenario this shooter created was essentially what SWAT teams do to completely overwhelm their target and make it impossible to fight back. It was loud, dark, smoke filled, unfamiliar and overall just blew the senses.

Add something like 70 innocent people who now think they are being shot at from multiple positions and trying to flee, and it just doesn't work out for the better.

I'm not anti-gun by any means, but you have to think this through

Jul 23 2012 1:04PM

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Crazy Fool

i agree, that scene would have been nearly impossible to fight back in.

but in general. it would be better to have a fire fight between two people than one dude mowing everybody down. who knows though, maybe a dude in the front row instantly pull out a pistol and drops the guy. unlikely yes, but no more unlikely then somebody shooting up a theater

on that note i just got my ccl. Its nice how oregon treats you like a criminal when purchasing weapons and getting your ccl. i love having to pay the fee for it in the room labeled "criminal payment and fees".

Jul 23 2012 3:30PM

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Ridiculous

I used to live in the US so yeah I kind of do understand

Jul 23 2012 3:32PM

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Ridiculous

No they don't, I can't believe your actually arguing the fact that serial killers are a distinctly American phenomenon. I have much more than the slightest awareness of global issues. You can argue all you want but I strongly believe its American society that is causing these kind of events; not American gun control laws

Jul 23 2012 3:35PM

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Addict

At your first argument, no, .22 ammo does not do much damage to the body. Yes, if you make a perfect shot it may be capable of killing someone, but in general it is not a defense/kill round. If gun prices go up, then so will the resale prices for those selling them to the cartel, it really doesn't help anything, and really just keeps people from being able to practice and have fun with their guns.

To the second point, I cannot disagree more. you have no idea what those robbers had in mind, A LOT of robberies end in the robbers shooting the people that they are robbing. I would much rather have everyone dunk in cover and allow one citizen the chance to save the day. Robbers arent expecting to come under fire, and 99% of the time they react exactly as those robber did.

Jul 23 2012 3:39PM

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Addict

Oh and unless I am missing something, wasn't his gun actually a semi-auto riffle? He could have done just as much damage with a couple of handguns with extended clips.

Jul 23 2012 3:40PM

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SkierX

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Post Whore

Fact: Australia and the United Kingdom have produced more serial killers per capita than the United States.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/8954366/Liege-shooting-and-grenade-attack-previous-European-incidents-in-last-10-years.html

The article in the link above highlights numerous public shootings that have occurred in places across Europe in the past decade.

Jul 23 2012 3:54PM

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Ridiculous

Find some evidence of that and I'll believe it. Oh wow, there have been as many mass shootings in an entire continent as in one country. Good work

Jul 23 2012 3:58PM

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SkierX

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Post Whore

It's not too hard to find published lists of designated serial killers and do some math based off the country's population to determine a per capita figure. I'd fully expect there to be more occurrences in the United States based off population figures alone.

I actually agree that gun-regulation is not a cause, nor a solution to the problem and that the problem lies in social roots. Where I disagree is when you try to paint it as a problem that is unique to the United States, when this is a problem that occurs world-wide in developed nations.

Jul 23 2012 4:28PM

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Ridiculous

I guess your probably right, and to be honest its true that while its not unique to the US, you can't deny its prevalence. But your right in its probably not unique to the US. I stand corrected

Jul 23 2012 4:44PM

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TheClap.

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@th1337

love it

Jul 23 2012 8:20PM

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a_pla5tic_bag

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Crazy Fool

look at this guy in court. he looks stupid

Jul 23 2012 9:05PM

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Addict

You know what I think I'm going to go buy a new target pistol. P.S. where do you shoot? I'm up at P.M.A.A. 1-2 times a week

Jul 23 2012 9:25PM

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Addict

yeah, do you know of any close spots near Salt Lake that they allow it? I know its kind of strict in the county. PM me if you don't want to give up spots!

Jul 23 2012 9:45PM

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Addict

Wasn't the original point of using .223 ammo in M16s and shit to give them a high rate of fire along with making them lightweight and cheap to shoot? Using .223 ammo in a semi-auto doesn't seem like the best choice if you're actually trying to kill people/animals.

Jul 23 2012 9:45PM

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No Life

the .223 is actually a really lethal round. I know people that have killed multiple deer with it.

Jul 23 2012 9:46PM

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FrysNation

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Ridiculous

Australia's not much of a continent

Jul 23 2012 11:17PM

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Addict

I believe it. But I'm sure there are plenty of cases where 1 round wasn't enough to take down a deer or whatever.

Jul 23 2012 11:34PM

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Ridiculous

those were all european countries dumbass

Jul 24 2012 5:25AM

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No Life

why do you say that? the .223 is the same as the 5.56 nato which is what is used my the military in the m16 and m4.

depending on which one you buy you are usually getting around 120 grains of powder which is a lot of power.

Jul 24 2012 9:05AM

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Crazy Fool

if you shoot a deer in the wrong spot with a .308 it wont go down..

Jul 24 2012 9:13AM

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Crazy Fool

It has been determined by many that you are retarded.

why are you still posting?

Jul 24 2012 9:16AM

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Crazy Fool

I am going to bring this back up since you decide to try to bash me over my hatred of another members OPINION.

What opinion? He shelled out of bunch of false fucking information that he thinks is correct and has no proof for any of it. I wouldnt really consider that an opinion, I would consider that opening your mouth when you have no clue wtf you are talking about aka being an idiot.

Jul 24 2012 9:19AM

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Ridiculous

Is that so? I dont think one other person has said anything of the sort. Im sorry your 12 and angry with life. But go out and play some kickball or something, dont sit on the computer being angry swearing at people.

Jul 24 2012 11:53AM

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No Life

your pretty retarded.

Jul 24 2012 12:05PM

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theBearJew

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Crazy Fool

An interesting argument towards keeping guns. IMO wtf do we need assault rifles for in the general public. There HAS to be a way to limit the public to handguns and hunting guns. I only add hunting guns because I know some people find that important. Not fucking semi automatic assault rifles.

Jul 24 2012 12:21PM

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SKI.ING

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This. I like how the NS mentality of "everything you own is pussy stuff, I can handle way bigger and better" has been extrapolated onto weapons information. I've only read the last page of this thread, but based of these stupid remarks comparing the rounds to a .22LR I don't think I want to.

Jul 24 2012 1:23PM

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Crazy Fool

obviously you pick out me hating on you and not why I am hating on you.

nice

Jul 24 2012 2:04PM

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RICK_ROSS

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No Life

or obviously drugged as fuck, but why.

Jul 24 2012 2:07PM

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theBearJew

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Crazy Fool

Its not a good idea to drug him.. He then could claim that he did not know what was going on because of the drugs...

Jul 24 2012 2:09PM

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Ridiculous

I 'picked you out' because in almost every single post you made you have used incoherent sentences, with so much cursing, and so many personal attacks, that nobody will ever take you seriously. Its ok to have a strong opinion, I respect that, BUT you really need to learn that in order to have a civil conversation and have other people take what your saying with a grain of salt you need to show some respect. All you are doing by RANTING AND TYPING THINGS LIKE THIS AND MAKING LISTS LIKE THIS IS

1. MAKING YOU SEEM STUPID

2. MAKING YOUR STANCE SEEM NON-CREDIBLE

2. AND REALLY OBNOXIOUS TO READ.

And I mean for real, all I was saying is something needs to be done, and a little regulation might not hurt. And thats coming from me, a hunter, and gun owner, who lives in one of the most conservative, and most guns per capita state in the country. I am not against your stance on gun control one bit, mine may be slightly different, but the point is out of how many other members share the same stance as you, your the only one who is freaking out on anyone who has a different view on things, which is really not helping your case. And before you respond to this just saying im retarded over and over which is what you have done, I am very very willing to bet I have more education, and more exposure to these types of political issues, which is why I am just trying to tell you to tone it down a little. You sound like a backwoods hillbilly , and I would probably be considered more of one then you living here in Montana. So thats not a good sign for you bud...

Jul 24 2012 2:23PM

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PASKIINGSUCKS

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Crazy Fool

I'd love to see statistics of how many people in the UK actually have firearms. I know here in PA we have like almost 800,000 ccw permits currently issued. that's just ccw permits for handguns, the number of firearms of any kind in homes probably is at least 5 times that.

I think that's like asking why are there more car accidents in NYC than Alaska.

Jul 24 2012 2:36PM

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Ridiculous

Im about to be done here for a while, said all i needed to say. Its good you feel strongly about something, that is to be encouraged. I just think for your own sake you need to learn how to be civil about it. It really is the best way to be heard by anyone who is worthing preaching to. Swearing and acting like an angry pre-teen does nothing for anyone. That is all

Jul 24 2012 2:37PM

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Addict

I know they use them in the M16. I don't even own a gun, but I know that the point of such a small round was to allow for a high rate of fire and a light weapon. If they could use a more powerful round and still retain the advantages of the 5.56 I'm sure they would.

"In a series of mock-combat situations testing in the early 1960s with the AR-15, M14 and AK-47, the Army found that the AR-15's small size and light weight allowed it to be brought to bear much more quickly."

"U.S. troops were able to carry more than twice as much 5.56×45mm ammunition as 7.62×51mm for the same weight, which would allow them a better advantage against a typical NVA unit armed with AK-47s."

"There has been much criticism of the poor performance of the bullet on target, especially the first-shot kill rate when the muzzle velocity of the firearms used and the downrange bullet deceleration do not achieve the minimally required terminal velocity at the target to cause fragmentation.[16] This wounding problem has been cited in incidents beginning in the first Gulf war, Somalia, and in the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan"

"These problems have primarily been manifested as inadequate incapacitation of enemy forces despite them being hit multiple times by M855 bullets"

Jul 24 2012 2:43PM

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Crazy Fool

you should be done here. you make no valid points.

btw you still never addressed how I was attacking that kids "opinions."

Jul 24 2012 2:48PM

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Crazy Fool

the list was to help you since you seem to be some what of an idiot. it brings it back your k-9 days.

Jul 24 2012 2:49PM

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Crazy Fool

your state is 3rd, correct facts help arguments.

Far from a backwoods hillbilly.

Jul 24 2012 2:53PM

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Addict

No, it's not. He's talking about RATES not totals. Sure, more people own guns in PA, but if gun ownership isn't a problem than the murder rate should be the same. If murder rate correlates with gun ownership then we have a problem.

Jul 24 2012 2:54PM

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Ridiculous

Very good. You are learning. And I did not say specifically 1st. I said "one of the most" which is indeed true. I am really no idiot, you will learn in time that what I am saying holds up. Just wait until your having this conversation around people instead of on the computer, swearing and insulting will not get you very far!

Jul 24 2012 2:59PM

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Crazy Fool

oh what the conversation stating that there is no reason to take away guns? I am pretty sure it comes down to the FACTS which state that when guns are taken away crime in fact increases. Thats just a fact that can be proven so if someones wants to argue that they are the idiot.

Jul 24 2012 3:01PM

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