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Beef with America

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Phrosty
Posts: 9956 - Karma: 18
Ok now there have been some heated arguments about the way america acts and what not. They spring up in the most obscure of threads. I think we should keep stuff organised. I want to ask a question, when has another country EVER helped the us in times of distress? We send food to the hungry, we send peace keepers to the fighters. We help when there are natural disaters. And we help build countrys out of war stricken habitats. But when shit happens in the us noone lends a hand, all they do is point a finger. When tornados make thousands homeless in the midwest who helps? noone but our own country. When planes flew into buildings who helped? we helped our selves. Sure the others said oh, were deeply sorry. but did they drop food for the masses? No, so you know what I say? fuck you world. Without the help of the US you would be ten times worse off than you are now.

Counter argument please.


'Get that shit outta my ass nigga!' - skipimp_ when he wrestled his dad.

Read my daily words of wisdom at the 'Don't click this' thread in non-ski gabber!
Jun 16 2002 3:58AM
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Ski_Instructor_Mike
Posts: 6146 - Karma: 73
people don't help the us because they're better off than the rest of the world.

I think that noone can fully comment on a situation because they're in it... if you're subject to it's coverups how will you see them.

MD... Dain bramaged.
Jun 16 2002 4:03AM
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Phrosty
Posts: 9956 - Karma: 18
well alot of people seem to think differently. saying usa sucks and what not. I mean shit, you can say whatever you want but don't worry, good ole' americans will always be there to help.


'Get that shit outta my ass nigga!' - skipimp_ when he wrestled his dad.

Read my daily words of wisdom at the 'Don't click this' thread in non-ski gabber!
Jun 16 2002 4:06AM
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Ski_Instructor_Mike
Posts: 6146 - Karma: 73
I think that noone can fully comment on a situation because they're in it... if you're subject to it's coverups how will you see them.

do you want me to write this again?
don't think that the world is shitting on you. know that you can't form a proper opinion because you're subject to it. all you see is what is 'approved' and all you here from the world is bitching... all I hear from the states is nationalism and ignorance and all I hear from the world is knowledge. see we both see it differently because we're both a part of it.

This is why arguments about it are stupid.

MD... Dain bramaged.
Jun 16 2002 4:14AM
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Phrosty
Posts: 9956 - Karma: 18
ok, how do you see ignorance?


'Get that shit outta my ass nigga!' - skipimp_ when he wrestled his dad.

Read my daily words of wisdom at the 'Don't click this' thread in non-ski gabber!
Jun 16 2002 4:34AM
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mauii
Posts: 6166 - Karma: 32
Look..the plain and simple fact is...most of the world hates the US cause they dont mind thier own damn business. They get involved in other peoples business and issues and it pisses them off. They might have good intentions, a lot of the time they do. Think of it like this..if u were in a fight with some other guy u were pissed at and your mom walked up and got involved, and told you what to do, you wouldnt be too happy would you? It's the same thing with the US and the rest of the world. They medal in other people's affairs and it pisses other countries off. The US is like an intrusive parent, and the rest of the world is ready to live on its own.

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-Mike
Jun 16 2002 10:37AM
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dez22
Posts: 2959 - Karma: 65
what the fuck do u want other countries to do for 9/11? how the fuck can we drop mass food you already got it u dumbass

i think that america's ignorance will come back to haunt them... oh wait it has!
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'Pro - peagna? What the fuck is that?' - my friend looking at my Propaganda DvD (he's not to bright)

skiers get head
snowboarders get ass
Jun 16 2002 11:09AM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Alright heres the problem, yes the U.S. does 'help out' other countries. But they never go in if they don't have some vested intrest they have to protect or wish to gain. Lets like at a country like ethiopia. An agricultural country which survived on its owned for hundreds of years. Some disillusioned chirstians went in and figured that they probably wern't happy with their lifestyle becuaswe the great materialism didn't exist. So they went over and fucked up the entire lifestyle and what ethiopia like now?? Thats right it's a mess. Second example Cuba. The united states felt it belonged to them, so when they waged the second war of independance from Spain the U.S. backed the Cubans (pre castro)claiming it was an issue of Peace. They came in half way through the war as the Sallies, err Americans are well known to do. Then when the 'heroic' rough riders under Rosevelt 'defeated' the Spanish they rode to the Governer palace BY THEMSELVES and put THE AMERICAN FLAG, no the cuban flag on the palace, thus claiming Cuban indepedence. Following this they forced Cuba to write a constitution. During this period they passed the Platt amendment which basically took cuban soveriegnty away. The U.S. then supported a series of oppresive corrupt militaristic governments who allowed the U>S> to do whatever the fuck they wanted in the country including kill thousands of innocent civilians. This system was ideal for Castro to come in and take power. Thanks for the 'help' america. This is just a drop in the mutha fucking buckett, we haven't even touched Africa or Latin America. And 9/11, foo' before you go getting all mad at the 'terrorist' look at what your people have done over in the middle east. You occupied MECCA for fuck sakes. Religion, fo the most part, is not a way of life here, but it is there. Thats a big fucking deal, you don't do that, you have no right, you violated an entire culture/religion. I'm not saying the terrorists were right to kill thousands of so called 'innocent people' (85ers). However as Malcolm X said 'the chickens is coming home to roost'. Which brings us to the next issue. You always seem pretty quick to be the 'good guy', you know help other countries 'opressed' masses to 'freedom' or whatever you want to call it. However, I've said it before THERE is no racial equality, you have huge fucking social issues in 'the land of the free' how is it that African Americans have been in the U.s. for 400 years and have still not achieved equality?? And this political freedom business? Foo please. The Red Scare?? Political freedom my ass. The list goes on...
Peace
Jun 16 2002 12:15PM
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yeti
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 17
well, i was going to reply, but c_lo said it all.


'I am going back online. I feel safe there.' - Piot Modrak aka lord_piot
Frostmonkey

Jun 16 2002 12:19PM
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Phrosty
Posts: 9956 - Karma: 18
c-lo go see undercover brother, i think you could relate. I'm not saying america is free, or that the country stnds for freedom. what I'm saying is that without america where would the world be? it would probably be mostly german. we always bail countrys out of shit. And the metaphore of the parent is true. But now most of you are still living with your parents so you wont see this but when have your parents ever done the wrong thing for you? These other countrys think they can hack it on their own but with out rich mommy and daddy (the us) they can't make it.


'Get that shit outta my ass nigga!' - skipimp_ when he wrestled his dad.

Read my daily words of wisdom at the 'Don't click this' thread in non-ski gabber!
Jun 16 2002 1:32PM
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yeti
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 17
[Post removed by moderators.]
Jun 16 2002 1:36PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
[Post removed by moderators.]
Jun 16 2002 1:37PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Thats funny, we posted at the same time and said the same thing,
Jun 16 2002 1:39PM
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yeti
Posts: 6335 - Karma: 17
well, i guess that's means it's unanimous! he's a feltcher! ;-)


'I am going back online. I feel safe there.' - Piot Modrak aka lord_piot
Frostmonkey

Jun 16 2002 1:40PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Here's the other problem foo' you started talking about how the u.s. helps out, I fucking shut you down. So what do you do?? You target one of my off shoot rantings. Probably because your riding uncle sam right now. Secondly the world wouldn't have been taken over by germany. If you took you head out the fucking propaganda Hitler did some goo things for germany. I'm not saying he was a good guy, he was a fucking monster but he was alot more humanitarian in some ways then Bush. Now I know your not very intelligent so your probably going to say. Is killing millions of jews humanitarian. So I'll save the time and just shut you down now. No it isn't but decreasing unemployment by like 20 percent and instituting soccial programs is. Also I fail to see the difference between what hitler did and the Fascist leaders the U.S. backed and continues to back in Latin America.
Peace
Jun 16 2002 1:47PM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
wow, your an idiot, how can you say the world would be run by the germans if the US didn't enter the war? i noticed that the US was one of the last countries to enter the war, they didn't join untill they were attacked, unlike every other country that entered the war cause the realized that something had to be done, personanlly i think the US is wreaking the world, trying to much to be a super power, all you think about is your self and how you can join the war to make it better for your self. For example the tensions between Pakistan and India, the US is trying to tell them to put down their nuclear wepeans while right now the US probably has a couple hundred nucks ready to fly to Russia or Cuba within a 5 secand notice, mind your own businnes, its the UN's job to solve international problems
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Paulou
Call me the bus driver cause im going to take you to school
Jun 16 2002 2:01PM
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mauii
Posts: 6166 - Karma: 32
i think the us just has to get its head out of its ass and realize that they don't own the world.

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-Mike
Jun 16 2002 2:06PM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
and they wonder why everyone hates them, fuck even americans where canadian flags when they travel just so they don't get the shit kicked out of them, i so dare an american to go to the middle east wearing a huge ass american flag if they last more than 5 seconds after they get off the plan i will be so suprized, that is untill there dead 10 secs later
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Paulou
Call me the bus driver cause im going to take you to school
Jun 16 2002 2:10PM
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dez22
Posts: 2959 - Karma: 65
i think that america needed 9/11 to wake them the fuck up
-------------------
'Pro - peagna? What the fuck is that?' - my friend looking at my Propaganda DvD (he's not to bright)

skiers get head
snowboarders get ass
Jun 16 2002 2:13PM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
ya, but 9/11 actually made it worse, now the US is going to invade every country that has beef with the states
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Paulou
Call me the bus driver cause im going to take you to school
Jun 16 2002 2:15PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Peace to everyone who knows
Jun 16 2002 2:29PM
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Ski_Instructor_Mike
Posts: 6146 - Karma: 73
'ok, how do you see ignorance?'

first of all. that wasn't the point of what I said. I was saying that we both see different sides of the same issue and we cannot agree as long as we see things differently.

second of all... who is are leader? and what is the name of the position that he holds?
name more than 3 provinces... (yeah we have provinces not states) can you name any of the times where canada beat/fended off or got retaliation on the US in a war? (there is more than one time)

I doubt that most americans can answer these questions. I'd be willing to say about 95% can't.


MD... Dain bramaged.
Jun 16 2002 3:58PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
Alright... until about the cold war the US didn't do shit internationally until they were directly affected. In WWI it took the Germans to bomb a civilian ship going across the Atlantic killing everyone on board and a telegram from the Germans to Mexico saying that if Mexico attacked the US and if Germany won the war Mexico would get all of the land the US took away from them during the settlement of the west. (New Mexico, Texas, Arazona, Utah, Nevada, pretty much the whole west). By this time the war was all but won for the allies. The americans just wern't tired from years of fighting so they went out with more engery and claimed the win was theirs. Same thing in WWII. They didn't enter the war till the Japanese bombed their asses. Than again - and it wasn't the Americans that won the war. It was part Hitlers own fault for turning and attacking Russia (what the hell was he thinking?) and the rest of the allies pushing from the French coast (last I checked the US wasn't the only country to land on Normandy).

Than the starting of the Cold War began - this is when the US changed their way of dealing with international affairs - with their huge egos they thought they were the best in the world, and decided to take on the role as the police of the world. Suddenly it was up to them to make sure that communism must be stopped because it was 'evil'.

I got nothing against the average American, just the way the US goverment runs things and the overall ignorance and huge ego the country has. The States isn't the best country in the world... they just got lucky over the years and their country was set up to make money... I'm just rambeling now so i'm going to stop.

Darryl Hunt
aka - highschool

representing the H.J.S. forever

Thurgood - 'how long you think you can last in there man?'
Kenny - 'I don't know, maybe 5......6...:30'

sorry matt... i got bored of that quote - but you got replaced by Half Baked... which is just as quality.
Jun 16 2002 3:58PM
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kowabunga
Posts: 251 - Karma: 10
yep, nam all over again.
O.:|K|o|w|a|b|u|n|g|A|:.O

'I love Celine Dion!'
Jun 16 2002 4:00PM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
you canucks blame the US for getting involved in issues that are other people's business and then you criticize us for waiting til we get attacked in WWI and WWII to enter the wars???? Pick one. Do you want us to fight other people's wars or just sit back and wait til we get directly attacked. It can't be both.


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Jun 16 2002 9:51PM
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unyon
Posts: 139 - Karma: 10
if you want to get a good idea of how America always 'helps' other nations please read Manufacturing Consent, especially the part on Indochina.
Jun 16 2002 9:51PM
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Ski_Instructor_Mike
Posts: 6146 - Karma: 73
haha you can't even argue the WWII issue. umm millions of people were being slaughtered. I think it's a reason to get involved. but the US waited untill they got attacked so that people would actually join the army and fight. face it. it's a well known fact.

MD... Dain bramaged.
Jun 16 2002 9:58PM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
no one knew millions of people were being slaughtered at the time (although that is debatable). people didn't wanna send their kids off to die in europe like in WW1. so if people are dying, it's ok for us to come in and end it?


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Jun 16 2002 10:03PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Theres a distinct difference between taking on a superpower and bullying a small poor latin american/african/asian/middle eastern country. The Americans seem to like picking on the little guys but then when someone of equivelent size asks them to step out they sally out.
Peace
Jun 16 2002 11:09PM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
when have we 'sallied out?' we got called out in both world wars and stepped up and kicked ass. Before the Gulf War, Iraq had like the 4th largest military in the world. And we completely ripped them apart. I'm no big fan of US foreign policy but we've never 'sallied out' of anything


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Jun 17 2002 10:25PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
First off I want you to know this isn't personal, I'm not calling you a sally, you probablly weren't born around the 1st or 2nd world war. I'm just saying you guys were pretty damn hesitant to step into the second world war. I geus I can feel the second world war stituation but not the 2nd. No one wanted to go to war and I have hard time with the U.S. stepping into cuba because , and I quote 'Our peace and freedom is being threatened' but won't jump into WWII.
Jun 17 2002 10:30PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
I meant I can feel the u.s. not jumping into the 1st (not second) world war
Jun 17 2002 10:32PM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
well like I said earlier, no one knew what Hitler was doing besides trying to take over Poland and France. The US didn't exactly become the world power it is today until after WW2. In retrospect, yeah maybe we should have jumped in sooner. But at the time it was not unreasonable to hope that France and GB could end the war themselves.


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Jun 17 2002 10:46PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
Yeah I feel you. I theres just to many ways to look at it now that we have the advantage of retrospect
Jun 17 2002 10:49PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
OK, lets get this straight, in WW2, NOBODY, not a single fucking soul did shit until they were attacked, not just the US... Britain and France, and the other 'great powers' kept giving land to Hitler in hopes that he would be happy with it... (i.e. appeasment) and then told Poland and several other countries NOT to arm themselves (i.e. the examples of Polish calverymen charging German Nazi Panzer squadrons) because they would defend Poland if it were to be attacked... in 1939, Poland was attacked, and swiftly defeated exactly because of the fact that they were told NOT to arm themselves by Britain, then, Britain finally sends forces to protect France because they know that if Hitler takes the whole of France he can attack England. He eventually did, but his operation for taking England was never completed because of the RAF's wins in the Battle of Britain. So, dont start this shit about, oh, the US didnt start until they were attacked, while everyone else did... thats gay, and ignorant.

The people in the United States mean well a lot of times, its the Politicians that have the self serving agendas... The People in general do not see the fact that the US has self serving deals in the middle east and such, the Military just does what its told, the Politicians (and not just Republicans, and not just Democrats) are the ones that should be bitched about, and every country has those. The other ones are the extremests... i.e. the extreme left, or extreme right, i'm sorry, but if you arent open to other views, you shouldnt be talking... period...

oh well, i totally lost the point of what i was talking about... hope this made a bit of sense

-Andy

NewSchoolSkiing+dot+com

Time to kick ass and chew bubblegum...

Damn, and I'm all outta bubblegum
Jun 17 2002 10:49PM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
well said Andy . . . after losing thousands and thousands of young men in WWI (which ended was a ton more than most had expected and hoped here in the US), Roosevelt was in no rush to send hundreds of thousands of more young men into battle.


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Jun 17 2002 10:54PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
I'm confused you said that not a single country did shit until they were attacked but Britian and France were forced to jump in to uphold the treaty of versaille (I know I know hitler brook numerous terms previous to tthat). Did you mean that no one was attacked before they jumped in??
Jun 17 2002 10:54PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Britain and France didnt do shit about the treaty of versille (oh yeah, did you know it was based on Wilson's 14 points another American job)
-Andy

NewSchoolSkiing+dot+com

Time to kick ass and chew bubblegum...

Damn, and I'm all outta bubblegum
Jun 17 2002 10:56PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
hey andy - Polland tried to fight back against Germany, but was greatly over powered and was taken before anyone knew what happened... And you mentioned nothing about Canada who delcaied war on Germany even though the Germans did nothing to them.

Darryl Hunt
aka - highschool

representing the H.J.S. forever

Thurgood - 'how long you think you can last in there man?'
Kenny - 'I don't know, maybe 5......6...:30'

sorry matt... i got bored of that quote - but you got replaced by Half Baked... which is just as quality.
Jun 17 2002 11:08PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Canada's declaration of war was mostly a political move in order to stay with her allies... name one major battle where CANADIANS were the deciding factor... ONE


-Andy

NewSchoolSkiing+dot+com

Time to kick ass and chew bubblegum...

Damn, and I'm all outta bubblegum
Jun 17 2002 11:14PM
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c_lo
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 10
no, Wilson wanted the treaty to be based on the 14 points but they didn't incorperate most of it. Wilson's 14 points were fair and diplomatic and it would have worked out better if they had been taken into acount. Thats why the U.S. didn't join the league of nations, because they didn't use the 14 points to draw up the treaty. And yes as I said Br. and Fr. let the treaty slide for the most part but when Germany invaded poland they were kind of obligated to step in
Jun 17 2002 11:19PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
But they didnt actually fight the germans until they invaded france....

-Andy

NewSchoolSkiing+dot+com

Time to kick ass and chew bubblegum...

Damn, and I'm all outta bubblegum
Jun 17 2002 11:48PM
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newschooler14
Posts: 2843 - Karma: 25
i agree with svhucker and lineski. You guys have been saying we getin other peoples business but then we arent fighting until we get attacked?



where does all the white go when the snow melts?
Jun 18 2002 12:27AM
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RiverRipper
Posts: 700 - Karma: 9
Had America not waited until we were attacked in WWII, the country would not have rallied as hard towards the war effort. By Japan attacking us, it gave the americans reason to fight. Notice when we first got attacked FDR sent most of the forces over to Europe to fight the Germans and Italians, not to the pacific to fight the Japs. Hilter increased employment by increasing arms output, factories to build the weapons he used to fight the war where were most german workers worked in the 30s. If the US had not entered the war, germany would have won. The other countries would have not had the ability to fight with out us, we were supplying russia and england with weapons prior to our involvement. When we joined we retook Africa, made Hitler fight a two front war, provided weapons, air power, food, supplies, pretty much we sustained the world during the war. If you think anything about american resolve in the war look at our production rates, what other nation was building 550ft long transport ships in under 2 days? Had we not become involved, the germans would have improved on the V2, built their Jet planes, and probably have created the nuclear bomb...The RAF was getting their asses kicked by the germans over London.

Say what you want but we REBUILT the world after the war. We gave billions to pretty much every nation on earth. Japan, we completely rebuilt their country. We did not attack civilian (ok we nuc'ed a couple cities to end the war) but we purposely did not attack centers of worship, or populated areas in Japan so that after the war it could be rebuilt. We rebuilt Germany too, we could have said you lost so you are on your own.

Even today we give billions to prop up other countries economies. Sure we stick our noses in everyones business but do you think if we said ok we will leave you alone but no more money they would want that. Hell no, they need that money so they deal with the fact that we have interests in their countries. It comes across as selfish but look at Rowanda, a million people killed cause of ethnic cleansing, we did nothing about it because of some deaths in Somalia. After the world news gets a hold of it the US is blamed for allowing it to happen.

I love my country...as for the asshole that said 9/11 was good cause it woke us up FUCK YOU. And the dick that basically said we deserved it cause of what we have done to the Mid East I hope I run into you someday. I lost family and friends in those buildings, i will show you what is deserved. Without us Sadam would run the mideast, would be murdering his own people and the world would be at his feet for oil. They killed thousands of civilians, we kill terrorists...there is a big difference. If someone straps a bomb to their chest they dont value their life so why should I?

Conformity, I'll never swallow. The world today full of pain and sorrow. Apathy, I'll never follow.
Stretch Arm Strong
Jun 18 2002 12:46AM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
Andy Canadian did a lot of great stuff in the war, they freed the Netharlands, and won many major battles, they were won of the best fighting forces in the war
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Paulou
Call me the bus driver cause im going to take you to school
Jun 18 2002 12:50AM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
To Andy - World War One - battle of Vimy Ridge.

Darryl Hunt
aka - highschool

representing the H.J.S. forever

Thurgood - 'how long you think you can last in there man?'
Kenny - 'I don't know, maybe 5......6...:30'

sorry matt... i got bored of that quote - but you got replaced by Half Baked... which is just as quality.
Jun 18 2002 1:08AM
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Ski_Instructor_Mike
Posts: 6146 - Karma: 73
oh dude... andy you're my bro and all but I gotta call you out on this..

'Canada's declaration of war was mostly a political move in order to stay with her allies... name one major battle where CANADIANS were the deciding factor... ONE '

oh man... that's a perfect sign of americas attitude... they didn't 'win' the war... they were a part of a whole. Hollywood had made it seem as though all of the achievements were by americans... HAHAHAHAHA that's the biggest joke you know that movie U571? in the movie there were only american soldiers getting the enigma machine (the one that decoded the german messages) Guess what!!!! The operation was done by, who else, CANADIANS! hmm have you never heard that fact before??? wow! really? maybe that's because you're hearing a very biased view of the world.

Dieppe, Sicily, Atwerp, the rhine (which allowed the capture of berlin) I would really say more but... I'm a lazy fucker...

Go here... dispells even more american made myths
check out the FAQ section too... actual emails... from actual americans... and factual responses.

MD... Dain bramaged.
Jun 18 2002 1:15AM
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Ski_Instructor_Mike
Posts: 6146 - Karma: 73
'Had America not waited until we were attacked in WWII, the country would not have rallied as hard towards the war effort.' if this doesn't say more aobut the 'american' attitude as a whole (not talking individuals here) then I don't know what does.. wait you needed an island to be attacked before you could gather up men? .. to fight in a war that already threatened you in the first place, and one in which your trade partners and diplomatic allies were already involved in.... yeah that reeks of ignorance...

and don't even start me on battles won in WWI, Canada entered the war far before the US. then when the US did enter Canada still captured more tanks, howitzers, and enemy soldiers on a weekly basis than the US. despite it's army being a lot smaller. well isn't that just a cock in the ear??? (excuse me that was my I may be acting like a fool but I'm right remark)

MD... Dain bramaged.
Jun 18 2002 1:23AM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
Ummmm it was the British that captured the enigma from the nazis. The crew of the HMS Bulldog boarded U-110 on May 9, 1941. Al Gore didn't really invent the internet either. Don't believe everything you read.


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Jun 18 2002 2:17AM
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SVHucker
Posts: 2354 - Karma: 12
there were 2 other U-boats captured by the allies, U-509 and U-559 I think. The movie is based on U-110, with Americans instead of British. And since when does Canada have submarines??? lol sorry


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Jun 18 2002 2:32AM
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powder99
Posts: 2761 - Karma: 12
hey im pretty sure we have three, i think we bought them off the british
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Paulou
Call me the bus driver cause im going to take you to school
Jun 18 2002 2:33AM
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