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Front page is an Advertisement?

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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
Since when did the front page picture become something a company could slap an ad on? and before that it was free wally meems? and it changes everyday now to like user images? it was much more legit when it was an epic picture from a pro photographer that stayed up for a couple days, i think this random Facebook style pictures and line advertisement thing has made the front page a joke, delegitimized skiings biggest website, and shows the world an unprofessional first impression of our sport. My opinion could be a big strong but I'm so over sports being advertisements and marketing tools instead of sports, the ad on the front page was over the line, pun semi intended. The front page should be used to show how legit skiing and newschoolers are (INDEPENDENT AND BADASS), and then the funny stuff is inside, and advertisements in the side bar where i can ignore them like god intended
Jun 14 2012 12:20PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
Definitely something we are going to have to think about.

Truth be told though, this photo made it to the front page the same as every other one since we made the change. People up-voted it enough that it was chosen as the favorite of the day. We in no way had any influence in it getting there. It just happened to have the logo of a brand that supports the site.

In the same way that we try to limit spam in the forums, maybe we need to implement a gentleman's agreement between companies against using the photo section in this way. Though really it isn't all the different from a pro/semipro or even amateur photographer having their photograph make it to the home page with their watermark on it.
Jun 14 2012 1:06PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Could just make a mod official cover page picture chooser or something. I agree with Alex some of these shots I'm just like wtf are they thinking. It makes more sense now that I know someone isn't choosing them. I used to look forward to when It changed to something different and epic.
Jun 14 2012 1:19PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
One person choosing a photo or video every day - yeah, prob not.
Jun 14 2012 2:02PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Would it really be that hard to be impartial or just choose a rando cool shot? It used to be up for more than a day at a time too if I'm not mistaken.
Jun 14 2012 2:15PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
The great thing about the current system is that the community chooses the photo of the day and not us.
Jun 14 2012 2:22PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Downside of that it seems is a lack of professional cover shots? I agree cool feature but I can agree with what martini posted, I come here at times and am just like wow this is dumb. I guess it doesn't really matter either way, I'm not terribly passionate on the subject lol just bored at work.
Jun 14 2012 2:45PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
You have to keep in mind that it's summer for a lot of the members and the camps haven't started yet so there is going to be a lack of what you might consider professional cover shots. We have talked about tweaking the algorithm to fetch other good photos taken during the season that never made it to the splash page if none were good enough.

Browse through the past photos of the day and you'll see that there are a bunch of amazing shots uploaded by regular members who might never have gotten recognition if it weren't for the new system.

https://www.newschoolers.com/nspg/14.0/Photo-Of-Day?m=483318
Jun 14 2012 3:01PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,632
I actually flat out could not possibly disagree with you more.

I do agree with you that the splash page shouldn't be an ad. It isn't. So if that key point in this argument changes your mind, then we do agree.

However, the idea that it is better to be a pro photo that we choose is rediculous. That is the PROBLEM with skiing - its a tiny old boys club where only a few people ever get a chance for exposure. The whole reason we did this is that there is a ton of immensely good talent on Newschoolers, and when we chose the content as a community - then everyone has an equal shot at exposure.

You were probably skiing a ton this winter and didn't follow it enough, but you should click through and see what got chosen.

https://www.newschoolers.com/nspg/14.0/Photo-Of-Day?m=483318

Its amazing. Personally I think it is way more legit that newschoolers would try to focus on the up-and-comers than the usual pros. We want to foster media talent, and showcase what the everyday skier is doing.

I agree with you on the front that things like the free wally pictures are a little much, and we've been tweaking the algorithm to skip over stuff like that. The problem is that people do like it and really highly upvote it....

The future of newschoolers is in showcasing what every skier is doing, and building an ecosystem where new photographers, videographers and journalists can have their voices heard. We will decide the next wave of media pros as a community, and stand together in our opinion.

You should submit some shots for Stept. I'm sure you guys would have some awesome stuff that you're not going to sell anywhere and you would for sure get featured.

I think the REAL issue here is that photographers shouldn't watermark their photos so ludicrously. I don't even care if its an ad... its just plain ugly.

I personally think that if you toned down the watermark a bit, that photo is pretty awesome.

Jun 14 2012 4:25PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
Yeah I didn't even mind the wally stuff that much but I didn't realize it was all done automatically, the line thing just reminded me of all the ridiculous sucking of sponsor teet and knowing NS's advertising through the site rules i thought i would say something.
I didn't so much mean professional photographers as i meant professional looking photos, i like how the old front page was chosen by NS staff, it usually did feature up and comers and it gave me a cool insight into what the NS stuff had been looking at or was currently stoked on
and as for water marks, photogs need to chill, its ugly and ruins the photos, though in the case of the line ad it was dope, but it was a line ad, not a cool photo
this all just reminds me of team x blades, its such a perfect example of playing a sport vs. advertising for a sporting company
i think a combo of the two front page methods could be used, where the top photo is ready to go up, but staff has to hit okay before it does, so if its something controversial or semi-wack, they can just hit next and go to the second to top photo
Jun 14 2012 6:03PM
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1337
Posts: 31053 - Karma: 29,231
*Cough NS photographers cult members cough*

:)
Jun 14 2012 6:50PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Agreed you guys do a great job. As I said, I was more bored at work than anything and that free wally head picture popped up in my head.
Jun 14 2012 8:05PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
wow, looking through all of the photo of the day pictures really makes you realize how many good photographers are on here!
Jun 14 2012 8:55PM
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skijunkiedtm
Posts: 9229 - Karma: 61
The summer will really be the test of this as we have seen the quantity of quality photos take a dip in the off season.
Jun 14 2012 9:00PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
I have no issue with this since it is a kick ass picture, line uploaded it just like any other member would and the community voted it up. Some days I wonder why a photo was choosen but the masses obviously liked it.



please leave it this way.
Jun 14 2012 11:14PM
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cwphoto
Posts: 2332 - Karma: 780
i like the current system. the wally pictures made me laugh and were a joke. i do agree with you about advertisement, that it should be toned down. i don't think its a huge problem though
Jun 15 2012 3:34AM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
I like how it is because it's a good representation of what's going on inside
Jun 15 2012 6:14AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
I personally think the NS cover photo and the algorithm behind it is pretty much spot on ....


Skiing doesn't have to be 'professional' to be good ....

Jun 15 2012 6:59AM
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1337
Posts: 31053 - Karma: 29,231
True, and most of the time the right pictures are chosen (great ones that sometimes get tossed to the back of the photo section).

But I'd still really love to see some NS Featured Photographers (like the NSTV Gold level producers) who get featured photos or albums. Obviously keeping it the way it is, promotes the people who aren't, but we have to give something to the Pro/am's who are incredibly talented and trying to go big with this!
Jun 15 2012 7:32AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,632
I don't know if I agree with this though... the reason that media sources stagnate is that they become polluted with the opinions of staff and what they know. Its very difficult for them to see past what is in front of them.

By doing it this way, where the staff literally have only as much say as the members creates a true democratic media experience.

We're not all going to like everything, but as a community we are making the decision. There is no dictator who decides who is famous and who is not. The temptation to leave it up to staff can allow for personal opinions to taint the quality of the opinion of the masses.

What it does need is a slightly better voting system and some tweaks to the algorithm. We've got some great plans in store, as I think we need to up the quality... but I don't think that we need to take away the people's right to decide to do that.

What we need is to build an ecosystem where media people can succeed in their careers, and we shape the landscape as a community. That is way more exciting than a couple of dudes in their 30s who have kids (like me) deciding what is cool and what isn't.

Jun 15 2012 3:59PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
this sounds cool!
Jun 15 2012 4:08PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
POWER TO THE PEOPLE !

the more i think about it the more i'm actually a fan of the current picture of the day thing...

Not thet the older cover pics weren't good, they were all downright wallpaper worthy (many of them still are in the background slideshow on my pc) but didn't necessarily represent what newschoolers is ...

You know, those PRO pictures are something you'd find on Powder or the freeskier website or something, not necessarily on newschoolers. Newschoolers is more than just freeski media, NS is a fucking community and it's really cool that we don't just rep freeskiing on our splashpage but we actually represent the people who make this place what it is ...

On the other hand, something like jamie suggested might be kind of cool, a place on the site dedicated to more professional photography instead of a simple image 'dump'

I could see a list of albums organized like the NSTV thingy do really well, you know, like a collection of top notch images where each single one is good enough to use as a wallpaper so you don't need to sift through the thousands of good to very good pictures to find one that's 'perfect'
Jun 15 2012 6:18PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
damn it, you guys make a decent argument, but i think the mods need to help keep advertising to a minimum to allow the up and comers to shine, even if they aren't sponsored, once companies see a line ad on the front page they are all going to start battling for who can get top rated photo/ads on the website
Jun 15 2012 7:59PM
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Downtofilm
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 20,395
I love how it is now!

I also agree with Martini, some of the pictures make me wut.

I am pretty satisfied with most of the pictures that went up there this season, some of the "oldschooler" ones were super sick!
Jun 16 2012 4:38AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,632
In all fairness, I think that was a photo of Line's new calendar, which they just uploaded. Everyone was super stoked on it, and it got voted up.

I think there's some rules that we need to adjust - because I agree we shouldn't just have ads in there. I think though if we tweak the rules and start working on organizing am photographers correctly, we can do a better job of promoting more of a professional photo environment.

We've got some big changes that we need to implement to the ratings system which is going to fix a TON of the issues. The second thing is to complete the gallery system. (someone else is talking about that and I forget who right now but I'll make the response anyway)

If you actually look closely at the features on this page - https://www.newschoolers.com/nspg/14.0/Photo-Of-Day?m=484777

You can see that there are other galleries down at the bottom right. There is 'Premium Galleries' and 'Member Galleries'.

Anyone can make galleries within their MyMedia, and the interface is the same as NSTV. The problem is that the interface was never finished, so the only way to view them is by searching the 'Member Galleries'. We have one featured gallery from Jordan Lloyd, and the automated ones photo of the day/week/month.

Only reason its like that is the system isn't finished. However, as an easter egg in this discussion you can see that we've finished most of the back-end of what we've talked about here.

Once that is finished we're going to figure out a monetization system just like the Gold-level NSTV producers, except for Photographers.

Have not as of yet decided how we'll implement galleries and monetize them so we can pay people a revenue share. THat is what summer brainstorming is for, and most of that will go down in the NS Photographers cult.

Jun 16 2012 3:27PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
^Stoked^
Jun 16 2012 3:39PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I want to know if there's some picture size limit to get to the front page? I had a pic that was the most Top Rated for the day but was not picked to be FP.
Jun 16 2012 4:17PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Added that the pic was 640x427.
Jun 16 2012 4:20PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
And fully on-topic, the picture chosen by members is the best thing that happened to the site photography wise!
Jun 16 2012 4:24PM
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joris.blanc
Posts: 914 - Karma: 6,584
Yes there is a limit, I think that it is around 1000px wide.
Jun 16 2012 6:45PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
you, are the best
Jun 16 2012 11:02PM
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