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VP Debate

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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Cheney is...er... starting to win. It started even, but the last question have given him a leg up (Although a couple of the things he's said have been misleading... body armor vote, global test, etc...) but Edwards is pretty vague at the moment. Cheney's starting to go on a roll. Vicious. I think Edwards needs to stop defending Kerry, and starting to nail Bush.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 7:56PM
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UpDawg
Posts: 2373 - Karma: 11
Cheney is appearing to be more effective than his counterpart was. Not surprising, however, considering he's the one running the show.
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Drop cliffs, not bombs
Make turns, not war

College is for the dumb smart people.
Oct 5 2004 7:57PM
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cobalt
Posts: 1913 - Karma: 12
Yeah i'm watching it now. Cheney may be winning now, but there's still over an hour in which he may have a heart attack.

Still, I don't think it will be enough to ameliorate the Bush damage.
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Oct 5 2004 7:57PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I don't know... is anyone down there even watching this?

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 7:58PM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
way to dodge the question edwards, internationalise im not buying it. you guys been paying attention to the whole oil for food thing?

Oct 5 2004 8:01PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Who the hell selected THIS moderator? I mean, I was willing to let the question about the global test slide, although it was distinctly critical of Kerry... but this last one just explicitly called them and their plan naive. That's a little weak... if you set up the questions like THAT, I start to wonder...

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 8:01PM
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flippintricker
Posts: 2408 - Karma: 9
anyone watching the vice prime minister debate?



'Don't be an asshole JD.
If you dont like it you dont have to read it. '-J.D.May
Oct 5 2004 8:02PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
i'm watchin right now. Cheney is being gay, talking about 'flip-flop', that is all he has to say. Who cares if someone changes there mind?? That is his only rebuttle. His sportsmanship in the debate is horrible, he is acting a total asshole and not even listening to edwards.
##
Has anyone ski Bear Paw Ski Bowl? Fun place to ski lots of rocks and icy kickers
Oct 5 2004 8:04PM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
you are right Kerry dosent filp flop......... he is pandering, I have been watching Kerry trying to figure out what his real stance is but honestly I cant tell he panders to the specific group he is speaking to. I honestly would like to know his stance but his speeches are too conflicting.
Oct 5 2004 8:09PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Man, Cheney is off topic at the moment... it's getting more and more even. Character assassination is working for Edwards.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 8:17PM
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Localboyz
Posts: 1626 - Karma: 19
Kerry is dealable only because if hes elected theres a good chance Hilary Clinton won't get into office 2006(if bush wins there is a slight possibility) but edwards is a fucking idiot, i don't think he has answered one question fully or without some ignorant wordy bullshit statement, cheney is killing him by far, maybe they should have cheney doing the presidential debate because apparently he knows his shit...
Oct 5 2004 8:20PM
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Jasmine
Posts: 1489 - Karma: 10
i really hate cheney



Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly
proclaiming...'Wow! What a ride!'
Oct 5 2004 8:25PM
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skipimp_
Posts: 5700 - Karma: 113
i boycott watching, because it only makes me sad.



“Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit�

Activism without chaos? or Chaos without activism?


'The problem with today's youth is not that our fathers don't believe in us, but that we do not believe in our fathers.' - Me.
Oct 5 2004 8:26PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
No, Cheney isn't killing him anymore by debate standards. He's lost the last 2 questions, because he's on the defensive. This is why he's getting off topic. It's pretty even at this point, and Edwards is now on the roll. That last question had Cheney justifying 4 million new below the poverty line by saying 'But rich people get tax cuts.'

Wait, did Edwards just say they COULDN'T eliminate the deficit? Is he being HONEST about their fiscal policy? I'm shocked.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 8:27PM
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bcboy
Posts: 719 - Karma: 9
^HAHA




...
Oct 5 2004 8:28PM
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Skwirl
Posts: 313 - Karma: 18
Dick Cheney, like rush limbaugh, is a big fat idiot
Oct 5 2004 8:29PM
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wolfmansbro
Posts: 2155 - Karma: 137
^ are you watching the same debate we are? first off i want to say this comment to people like conceptkid, you are a real dumbfuck, i dont mean to be an ass or for you to take this personally but if we have a president that constantly changes his mind then other countries will look at America as beeing week minded. A lot of you are saying its ok for kerry to change his ming. NO ITS NOT! to be a leader you need to be stronge and straight forward, if you change your view then everythign becomes washed up and unclear and thats when other countries will step up. We need a president that has a clear viewpoint. Im not all for Bush/cheney but we do need a president that steps up and takes control, and thats what Bush has over kerry.

Also on a different note, have you guys noticed it looks like these guys are about ready to just jump at eachother and go into an all out brawl
Oct 5 2004 8:30PM
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nothanks
Posts: 13551 - Karma: 31
im watching
i hate cheney
but hes being a big douche and saying stuff again
which is sort of right
edwards needs to punch cheney now and tell him to have a debate like a man and stand...or just get healthy



-let people do what they want, ski how you want, make whoever you want your role model its your choice
-i love to ski, so should you, its fun, try it sometime
-thats what the internet is for anonymously slandering people-jason lee
Oct 5 2004 8:33PM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
jar jar im not criticizing the 'filp flop' thing read my thread im saying he cater's to specific groups and tweak his stance but im just wondering what he will really do if he is in office. whether he will take a hardline on iraq or a soft one.
Oct 5 2004 8:34PM
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skipimp_
Posts: 5700 - Karma: 113
i doubt hes an idiot, they dont put idiots in positions of power............



“Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit�

Activism without chaos? or Chaos without activism?


'The problem with today's youth is not that our fathers don't believe in us, but that we do not believe in our fathers.' - Me.
Oct 5 2004 8:35PM
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Localboyz
Posts: 1626 - Karma: 19
Cheney seemed to be really relaxed on the war topics, he spoke soft yet loud, then on the other side it looked like Edwards was fidgety and waved his hands in jerking motions a little to much, but now that its on home issues it seems to slowly be switching. I still think Cheney has the debate so far but it might switch...
Oct 5 2004 8:36PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Wolfman, that's like saying it's ok if the president drives his country into a brick wall so long as he doesn't blink. It's moronic. You need to stick up for your principles, and whatever the spin you might get, Kerry has. But you don't stubbornly stand by your idiotic mistakes. It doesn't make any sense. You recognize the problem, and you fix it.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 8:37PM
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asac
Posts: 12485 - Karma: 17
FUCK FUCK FUCK i fucking missed it. god-motherfucking-damn cocksucking homework. FUCK.





---------------------
Good Fun With A Hand Gun.

NO MORE BU** SH**
Oct 5 2004 9:22PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
cheney got in a few zingers about edwards senate attendance, and record...'im there most tuesdays, and the first time i ever met you was when we walked on stage tonight'

there were a few other choice ones too. edwards was pretty vague (as was kerry) on the iraq thing, and cheney pretty much ripped him on that one too about not counting the iraqi casualties...

cheney easily had the upper hand in the foreign affairs portion, the domestic, probably an edge to edwards, due to the fact that all cheney could say about job loss was '9/11... lost jobs' the health care part was a little nebulous as well, especially because ive not had too much experience with it, so i would call that a draw, as far as im concerned.

i find edwards to be far more enjoyable to listen to than kerry. if i were running that campaign, i would have edwards do all the speaking . listening to kerry makes me want to poke out my own eyes. edwards is pretty engaging though.

over all, i would say that cheney had a better showing, due to his wealth of experience in comparison to edwards lack thereof, if nothing else.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Oct 5 2004 9:24PM
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wolfmansbro
Posts: 2155 - Karma: 137
not really J.D._May, its more like kerry not to sure if you want to go head into the wall, and is back on forth and by the time he makes the right desision its to late
Oct 5 2004 9:30PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I'm going to agree with the general opinion on this one and call it a draw... Cheney turned down the opportunity to talk about a few issues, and though he was doing very well on foreign policy (as Anew said), he lost his momentum later on. Cheney seemed to have all the facts and figures at his disposal when it came to Iraq, but it was the exact opposite story when it came to health care and job loss, where Edwards seemed to know everything there was to know. So I think each had their moments of shining, but to say one or the other one would be a bow to bias one way or the other. Cheney only really won in comparison to Bush, and Edwards was certainly not as direct and decisively victorious as was Kerry. So yeah, I'd call it a draw, but a good draw; both were effective, rather than both of them sucking. And Anew, the below the belt shots went both ways.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 9:35PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
somewhere in the middle of that paragraph:
'one or the other one won*'

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 9:37PM
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wolfmansbro
Posts: 2155 - Karma: 137
^ i will have to agree with you on that one
Oct 5 2004 9:37PM
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Capurnicus
Posts: 9947 - Karma: 1,886
Edwards is such a sleeze....

In one case, he and a family sued the doctor because they claimed that the doctor deprived the baby of air at birth causing the child to have Down Syndrome. Anything funny about that? $4 Million for Edwards off that one.

- Patrick·patproductions.com
Looks like rain to me.
Oct 5 2004 9:39PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Cheney's actions at Halliburton were at least as sketchy as that, man. Character assassination needs to stop with these campaigns. Leave the past in the past and talk about the issues. It was Kerry's fault it started, and it's been the media's fault it's kept going. It's finally slowing down, let's not start that up again. There's just as much in Cheney's and Bush's past to be harped on, but that's not what the election should be about.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 9:43PM
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Capurnicus
Posts: 9947 - Karma: 1,886
And it just doesn't add up for me.

Edwards and Kerry have both said that they would've removed Saddam out of power. But that it was a mistake going in because Iraq wasn't involved with 9/11. I don't get it.

YES It was a good thing to take him out of power.
NO It was a mistake.

Huh?

- Patrick·patproductions.com
Looks like rain to me.
Oct 5 2004 9:43PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Seems to me they were pretty clear that it's a good thing that he's gone, but it was gone about in the wrong way. A better, stronger coalition, could have gone in when it wouldn't have takent he focus off Bin Laden, and may not even have been necessary had the required effort been put in with regard to getting international support. That seems to be their position, 'clear and consistent', as they put it. Although they seem to have other criticisms about the way things were done... 'plan to win the peace' and such catchphrases. Campaigns are bound to produce repetitive mottos, I suppose.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 9:46PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
edwards kept trying to push the notion that the admin beleived that saddam was involved in 9/11... trying to confuse that with the issue of weather or not saddam had relationships with al queada.... two different questions... that edwards... hes a sneaky one...















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Oct 5 2004 9:54PM
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Utahpowderskier
Posts: 1336 - Karma: 14
I think that both sides represented their candidate well. I think that Cheney definetly made up ground for his campaign on Iraq and foreign affairs and I think that Edwards helped Kerry on the domestic side. I dfo think that one thing that concerned me was that Edwards kept referring back to 'our plan' on healthcare and passed on the question that was actually being asked. He also was supposed to define where he stood without referring to his running mate at all. He referred to Kerry twice and then when corrected, he simply changed Kerry to 'we'. That was weak. I also thought that Cheney could have used up more of his time. There were more than one occasion where he ended his rebuttle or reply when he had more than 15 seconds left. That left the impression that he hadnt done all of his homework. Taking all things into consideration, I would have to give the slight win to Cheney though.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but in the end, it doesnt get you anywhere. Write that down.
Oct 5 2004 10:11PM
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Meh42
Posts: 2431 - Karma: 14
bush cheney is a creepy fat white man who eats too much bacon and grease. beyond that, its disturbing how his energy task force researched potential lucridive oil prospects in iraq.

'WASHINGTON DC -- Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that documents turned over by the Commerce Department, under court order as a result of Judicial Watch's Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force, contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as 2 charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and 'Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.' The documents, which are dated March 2001, are available on the Internet at: www.JudicialWatch.org.

The Saudi Arabian and United Arab Emirates (UAE) documents likewise feature a map of each country's oilfields, pipelines, refineries and tanker terminals. There are supporting charts with details of the major oil and gas development projects in each country that provide information on the projects, costs, capacity, oil company and status or completion date. '

even creepier is in the time between 9/11 and the iraqi war, it was Cheney who was always pushing for that connection of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin laden, regardless of supporting facts at the time.

the final point is how once the war 'ended', halliburton was awarded a no bid contract for the rebuilding of iraq.

'Democrats pointed out that Cheney receives deferred compensation from Halliburton under an arrangement he made in 1998, and also retains unexercised stock options.'


_________________________________________________________

'michael moore called...said he is ready to fuck you again' - SUpilot

'Yeah, most pros are strict Mormons. I read an interview with Tanner where he talked about his experience with a caffinated beverage. He said that it screwed up his style because he was poisoning the temple that is his body. Then some of his wives left him.' - Mistaskier
Oct 5 2004 10:55PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Cheney's first name is Dick. Not Bush. You were close, though.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 10:59PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Cheney's first name is Dick. Not Bush. You were close, though.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Oct 5 2004 10:59PM
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Meh42
Posts: 2431 - Karma: 14
woa thats the typo of the day
_________________________________________________________

'michael moore called...said he is ready to fuck you again' - SUpilot

'Yeah, most pros are strict Mormons. I read an interview with Tanner where he talked about his experience with a caffinated beverage. He said that it screwed up his style because he was poisoning the temple that is his body. Then some of his wives left him.' - Mistaskier
Oct 5 2004 11:01PM
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Meh42
Posts: 2431 - Karma: 14
i dont know, shit like that pops out when i desperatly dont want to write a paper and im looking for ways to put it off longer
_________________________________________________________

'michael moore called...said he is ready to fuck you again' - SUpilot

'Yeah, most pros are strict Mormons. I read an interview with Tanner where he talked about his experience with a caffinated beverage. He said that it screwed up his style because he was poisoning the temple that is his body. Then some of his wives left him.' - Mistaskier
Oct 5 2004 11:03PM
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jarossamdb7
Posts: 6322 - Karma: -10
anewmorning, see my signature. that is all you need to know about hte republican outlook on things. i didnt think it was as bad as it s (them confuding afganistan and iraq, but now i see that it is)


((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com

''When they attacked us'' - Rudolph Giuliani former republican mayor of NYC referring to Iraq in an interview on NBC news after the presidential debate
Oct 5 2004 11:04PM
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freeze_pooter
Posts: 3296 - Karma: 16
i have liked cheney since i saw him on meet the pressa few months back. thats thefirst timei saw him get interviewed and i liked him from the start
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bigJ lineskier10 '05
Oct 5 2004 11:06PM
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Capurnicus
Posts: 9947 - Karma: 1,886
I just think that Kerry/Edwards are trying to play both sides of the issue. They know that it was a good thing he is out of power but they still want to say the war was/still is bad. And that's wrong, just pick one side and stick with it, Gosh!

- Patrick·patproductions.com
Looks like rain to me.
Oct 5 2004 11:06PM
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reBlocke
Posts: 762 - Karma: 1,502
I think that what will actually make the biggest difference is that Cheney seemed like a grumpy old millionaire (weird huh?) while Edwards is more anamated and sympathetic. Although, Edwards did seem like a brat when he said 'No, I said something, it was him who didn't!'. It's kinda funny how much stuff like that changes peoples opinions as opposed to the points each candidate makes...
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Oct 5 2004 11:12PM
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freeze_pooter
Posts: 3296 - Karma: 16
thats why i kinda like Cheneys personality, hedoesnt have to be animated or anyting...i dont know i just like em
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bigJ lineskier10 '05
Oct 5 2004 11:16PM
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h3ofilms
Posts: 4214 - Karma: 12
Edwards is a sleezy trial lawyer ready to make a buck of a doctor that may or MAY NOT have made a mistake

when Cheney talks, i believe what he says..thats a man when he said something, i BELIEVE it
Hibachi King Drops 8/31/04
Oct 5 2004 11:34PM
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bigJ
Posts: 3148 - Karma: 10
hey, at least Cheney skis, and not just for photo ops like Kerry



Politicaly Active Since 1992

'Soberity is not an option.'

Drivin that Train
Oct 6 2004 12:14AM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
MY question is why isnt edwards running for president and why didnt Cheney do so in 2000. Both of these two seem better than their president counter-parts.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Oct 6 2004 12:27AM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
Question for J.D. or ne one who knows the answer

In regards to the moderator attacking Kerry/Edwards. Does the moderator choose all the questions and topics on their own? If so are they reviewed or approved by anyone? just not to familiar with how that works!




Pete is currently sulking around Mt. Hood, shooting with Poor Boyz Productions and hitting on Kristi Leskinen. She hates guys, Pete lamented, so it’s not going good. Apparently Canada isn’t the only thing that’s tough for Pete to get into.
-kamikaze
Oct 6 2004 1:20AM
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ViperSki
Posts: 1049 - Karma: 35
I enjoyed watching the debate. i thought it was very even for the most part though i tend to side more so with edwards. I like the fact that he continued to bring up the issue of the defecit and the loss of jobs. it didnt change my vote at all but i did enjoy seeing the two defend their candidates.

Did anyone else happen to notice that smirk on edwards face basically anytime cheney was talking, it was a wicked sort of 'ha i knew you would say something like that'. i think it was discuss on hardball at one point?


Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

Oct 6 2004 1:21AM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
That is the smirk that lawyers all have no big suprise!@




Pete is currently sulking around Mt. Hood, shooting with Poor Boyz Productions and hitting on Kristi Leskinen. She hates guys, Pete lamented, so it’s not going good. Apparently Canada isn’t the only thing that’s tough for Pete to get into.
-kamikaze
Oct 6 2004 1:27AM
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ViperSki
Posts: 1049 - Karma: 35
see thats what i assumed as well, but its got to be more than that, that look makes me believe he knows what im thinking. and easy on the lawyer criticism, im studying to be one.


Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God.

Oct 6 2004 1:33AM
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