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If you are going to vote...

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Crowley.
Posts: 190 - Karma: 19
If you are going to vote in the next election and you are going to vote for Obama because hes black, you think he going to give you more welfare money, or you think he will actually fix any problems with the country please read this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics-vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/

Obama is not the great leader people think he is, learn from the past we can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. Make an educated decision if you choose to vote.
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May 3 2012 12:50AM
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WI_Personallty
Posts: 881 - Karma: 161
Ron Paul is the only answer for america. Romney is being funded by banks and large corporations. Who is he going to owe. Santorum is just a plain idiot. Gingrich is still stuck in the past on how he personally lowered th enations debt, when it was lower and less severe. He's also more focused on selling his books than winning the election. Ron Paul predicted the economic crisis back in 2000 and nobody listened. Other countries don't like us because we force our selves on other countries. The reason terrorism is a problem is because we have bases on their land. America wouldn't let Afghanistan build a military base on our doorstep. The reason Ron paul can't win is because nobody will let him. All of the bad things they say about him aren't even close to true. He has real life experiences unlike the others who were always in politics there whole life so he knows what the middle class is going through. Obama only got into office because he's black and promised change. Oh yeah things changed for the worse. Obama sides with unions because the money that you make should be everyone's money. Does that really make sense to you. Go Scott Walker. Go Ron Paul. I'm only 15 and and know more about what is going on then most adults to so shut up because I pay attention and do research. Take consideration when voting because Ron Paul is just as electable as any other, but the republican and democrat parties are fighting him because they'll lose their jobs because Ron Paul wants to do away with the two party system because nothing will even get accomplished with two parties fighting eachother.Again go Scott Walker and Ron Paul!!!!!!
May 3 2012 1:04PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
it's true. sorry if you disagree.
May 3 2012 1:04PM
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Crowley.
Posts: 190 - Karma: 19
Keynesian economics only works when you are increasing spending in the right areas, which Obama is not.  You could find that out from reading the article I attached, which obviously you didn't.
May 3 2012 1:05PM
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alztar
Posts: 358 - Karma: 30
I'm not American and if you want to take offence you should

but the idea that anyone could ever vote Republican scares the shit out of me and I'm sure the rest of the world
May 3 2012 1:08PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
How? How are you *better* than any one else? Think about what the word actually means... Are you better than Switzerland? A country that is, relatively, MUCH richer than your country, hasn't been involved in a war longer than any other country, has next-to-no poverty, is very clean and has among the best health care in the world?

Are you better than Vietnam? Where people are sick, die young, corrupt and live in poverty?

To both, the answer is NO. You're not better. You're not worse. You're equal.
May 3 2012 1:09PM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
Nice copy and paste bro
May 3 2012 1:10PM
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Crowley.
Posts: 190 - Karma: 19
The fact that you think you have any knowledge of American politics scares me.  Republicans and Democrats in our political system are one in the same, neither is better or worse.  Both have their downfalls democrats increase taxes and dangerously interfere with our free market system by increasing income taxes and increasing minimum wage.  Republicans increase military spending, but also try to restore the free market.  It is all about this cycle of parties revoking the other parties policies and putting in place their own.   Our two party system just doesn't work, Republicans aren't blood thirsty beasts just waiting to devastate our nation, they are no more in the wrong than Democrats. I just don't understand people commenting on American politics while having absolutely no knowledge of what actually goes on.
May 3 2012 1:26PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
So supporting israel is wrong and going to ead to war?


you dont think we should have more pressure on countries like afghanistan? what the fuck does it concern you anyway, you live in the netharlands?

A war might be what this country needs, the economy is usually pretty damn good in wartime. I would have no problem fighting for my country with Romney as our commander and cheif.



your last point is really what got me pissed, why does his religion have anything to do with it? It just shows that you are an immature kid.

what do you know about mormanism? how is it going to make him a bad president? How does it affect his leadership skills? does it make him dumber then another man?

attacking someone for their beliefs is the worst and dumbest thing someone can do.
May 3 2012 1:29PM
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DADDYlongLEGS
Posts: 1574 - Karma: 48
Is that your economic policy suggestion? Start a war with the expressed purpose of making the economy pretty damn good?
May 3 2012 1:39PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
Lol no. It's pretty damn radical but I can fair enter our economy would Benefit from a war.
May 3 2012 1:40PM
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TheStudioCC
Posts: 2092 - Karma: 366
That's why political arguments can never ever be won, because there's just such a ridiculous amount of information about the whole thing. There's always people going to know something others don't. I never really got too into politics I basically just do a lil' research here and there based off of what I see on the news.
May 3 2012 1:51PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Let me address all your points here.

Yes. Supporting Israel is wrong. The tension created in the Middle-East by the American support for Israel is very dangerous for peace, not only in the Middle-East, also in the rest of the world. The nearby presence of mighty countries, notably Russian, Iran and Egypt, are all important factors in this matter. Especially Iran will be of huge threat to world-peace. Every of the three parties named above will surely partake if there's going to be a war and it will be one huge shitstorm.

You don't have any business in Afghanistan, so no, you shouldn't 'help' countries you, without a reason, invaded - let alone put pressure on them. And it concerns me because Dutch troops got send out to Afghanistan as well, because, believe it or not, we're also a member of the NATO.

War doesn't lead to economic growth. Never has, never will. It leads to innovation. That's about it. For the rest it leads to death, grief and destruction. Wars are fought with money loaned. Have you got any clue how much the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cost you? Way too fucking much. Do you think the American taxpayers payed for it? Don't fucking think so. Sure, they will in the long end, but right now they're just funded with money primarily loaned. Your national debt is just rising and rising. Paying interest over the interest. So much for a good economy in wartime. Yeah, thanks Bush!

As for your last point: I don't give a fuck he's Mormon. What bothers me is that he isn't secular. America is a secular state - your president won't be and he won't rule as one. That's what bothers me.

So much for all your good arguments and questions. If you got anything more to ask or if you want to prove me wrong I'll be glad to go into further discussion with you.
May 3 2012 2:02PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
May 3 2012 2:07PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Still cracks me up, haha.
May 3 2012 2:09PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
Do you not realize that NATO invaded Afghanistan because there was a threat against all of the countries involved? We have spent to much time in Iraq and now we got out. Afghanistan was first invaded in the hunt for bin laden. Now we offer support to the country against groups like the Taliban. Do you know what ended the great depression?? War! Ww2 brought America out of the great depression since war creates jobs. If there is ever to be a war with Iran now is also the best time. Why wait until we know they have nuclear bombs? That's just asking for trouble. If you think that letting a country like that have a nuclear weapon is ok then I'm going to stop arguing because it would be evident that you have some sort of mental disability.
May 3 2012 2:11PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
NATO didn't invade Afghanistan. The US did. Without NATO's concession.
How many Afghans died in Afghanistan? I bet more civilians than on 9/11 (which doesn't mean I don't think it's horrible what happened).

Do you know what ended the great depression? The New Deal. Under Roosevelt. That was in the 1930's - not the 1940's. Sure there was economic growth in the US in the 1940's, but not because of WW2.
May 3 2012 2:16PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
Do you know what the principals of the new deal were? Relief reform and recovery. Every book I have read about this including my us history textbook says that the new deal never brought recovery WW2 did. The professor of my us history class has said the same thing. Check your facts. Us history is something I enjoy since it is the only class I have an A in and the only one I chose for dual enrollment.
May 3 2012 2:20PM
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DubV134
Posts: 1541 - Karma: 690
your fuckin kidding right?!
yes war creates jobs which has an effect on the economy, but the jobs created are almost never sustainable, long term careers... and government funds, that would otherwise go to public works systems, are spent funding the war... war is unfortunately necessary and does nothing positive for our economy.

May 3 2012 2:25PM
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DubV134
Posts: 1541 - Karma: 690
that would stimulate economic growth
May 3 2012 2:26PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Ryan.... PLEASE don't start this shit again.
May 3 2012 2:31PM
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Crowley.
Posts: 190 - Karma: 19
First off I want to say that I don't support 75% of what the last guy said, but I wanted to point out that we did not create the tension in the middle east involving Israel. There have been holy wars over Israel for thousands of years, Arab - Israeli tension emerged later around the beginning of the 20th century. The U.S. endorsed the Israelis because they are a republic and we wanted to create a Jewish homeland because of the Holocaust. The idea was to create this homeland and feed into their economy in order to create some resemblance of peace, although that didn't happen because of constant bombings by Palestinians opposed to this Jewish Homeland, there would still be wars going on between these two sides whether we endorsed them or not. We just made it so they could fight these attacks off and have some type of stability in the area. As a result we have a very strong ally in the middle east, whether that is right or wrong is entirely up to the observer but conflict would occur regardless.
May 3 2012 2:31PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
spelling and grammar aside you knew what i meant its not like it was so bad it was unreadable, and on top of that a guarantee that was something you didn't know.Click for larger image
May 3 2012 2:42PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
I must say i will try and not say something as radical as that again.


May 3 2012 5:09PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
I never said the US created the tension, I'm just saying their involvement in the whole affairs worsens it. Besides, the US never promised their homeland - the UK did that. The holy war over Jeruzalem has been thought between Muslims and Christians - not Jews; that's something of recent times.
The American - financial - backing for Israel comes mostly from private Jewish-American people. The Jewish community in America is relatively VERY powerful and VERY rich. They have a lot of influence and surely they want to back their kind in the Middle-East. That's the reason Israel is so rich (compared to the countries surrounding it).
American involvement in the Middle-East has a twofold affect on the whole situation there. Firstly, because America made Israel rich (I know this is a very bland thing to say), Israel can act the way it does now: very cocky (also because they know they got America on their hand of course). Secondly, because America is involved other Middle-Eastern countries, especially Iran of course, have a very different approach to the whole matter. Like most of you will know, most of the Muslim world, especially the Shia, aren't very fond of the US. The result is that they want to destroy their (the US') ally in the Middle-East. Now that Egypt isn't an American ally anymore, nor is Turkey as much as it used be, the Muslims have a pretty big geopolitical advantage. Especially Iran is scary and I wouldn't be surprised if the conflict will get out of hand soon.

Honestly, I don't believe there would be a Jewish land in the Middle-East still if it wasn't for Western-European and American help: the Zionists would have been expelled a long, long time ago.


And to Ryan I can just say:
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May 3 2012 5:16PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
lol
May 3 2012 5:22PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10635 - Karma: 7,496
romney-morman- why that matters i dont know why.
obama- black- i understand why some people thinks that is cool but in the end it doesnt make a difference.
May 3 2012 5:43PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
*Mormon.

Like I said above: the problem with Romney is he doesn't draw a line between religion and state.
May 3 2012 6:14PM
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pointandshoot
Posts: 51 - Karma: 13
OP:
1) that article is written by Peter Ferrara... who is extremely conservative and runs the Heritage Foundation. Not exactly an unbiased source. I'm surprised Forbes published it.... it's also a year old
2) Those stats mentioned are extremely cherry picked. Reagan and Obama faced very different economic situations. We don't have "record inflation" despite our interest rates being close to zero...
3) Under Reagan, taxes were cut, but we made up the difference by borrowing more. Therefore, federal spending increased as a percentage of GDP (the author forgot to mention that).... textbook Keynesian economics (it worked too!). Reagan would have been flayed alive as a deficit spending liberal by today's right wing republicans. Reagan's policies were more Keynesian than Obama's.
4) We currently have the lowest taxes rate in like 6 decades. Well.... where's the fucking growth? Huh? How'd those Bush Tax cuts work out? Nothing trickled down to me. You?
5) You want Austerity??? Jesus Christ... Ask Europe how that is going.


May 3 2012 6:15PM
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CRiP
Posts: 1323 - Karma: 482
+K OP. there are just too many people that voted for obama because they were told to by the media, its actually sad. Many people voted for him just because they thought they were being "revolutionary" and so they could tell their grandkids that they voted for the first black president. unfortunately he has accomplished almost nothing during his time in office
May 3 2012 6:20PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
Obama's been there for 4 years and you guys are even deeper in the hole than when he started.
May 3 2012 8:11PM
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artfullydodged
Posts: 8358 - Karma: 1,674
I fucking hate our political system. We always end up choosing the lesser evil. It wasn't supposed to be bipartisan, I can't believe we ended up with such a blatantly flawed idea governing the way we elect our president. ugh.
May 3 2012 8:16PM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
Finally some intellegence...
May 3 2012 8:18PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
he never passed a bill on massachusetts that forced mormonism on anyone. Just because he is actually active in his faith and other presidents have not been (obama, Bush, Clinton) doesnt mean he wants to make america a theocracy.
May 3 2012 8:31PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
'Course it is. The economy is a fucking mess - but that's not because of Obama. It's because of the irresponsible way bankers have been going about with our money.
May 3 2012 9:47PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
bullshit. obama inherited an economy in freefall. it is now in very tepid growth. now whos fault that is, is a different debate.
May 3 2012 10:44PM
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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
keynesian econ only works if u save during the good years. since america isnt into saving at any level, keynesian econ is a cocksucking joke. btw wtf is woozy
May 3 2012 11:25PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
Watch out for Europeans. Many of them are pussies, and they love to flaunt it.




Didn't vote for Obama the first time because he was a textbook politician with an itch to spend like a muthafucka. Not voting for him the second time around for the same reasons.
May 3 2012 11:30PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
Haven't seen him in awhile, despite there being a number of political/economic threads. Maybe he got a GF and doesn't need NS anymore?
May 3 2012 11:30PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
all i can say is america has been economically improving faster than all other modernized countries. We are in the best shape out of everyone. Thank you Obama.
May 3 2012 11:37PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
I still think he could be doing a lot better if he wanted to though. The stimulus should have been larger. Health care reform should have included at least a public option. Banking reform is has had it's balls removed. He went back on his promise to not use federal resources for busting medical cannabis clinics that comply with state law.

I live in California, so I probably won't bother voting for him.
May 3 2012 11:44PM
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proZach
Posts: 7163 - Karma: 919
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May 3 2012 11:46PM
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derekstreesv2
Posts: 314 - Karma: 35
Obama has improved upon the the unemployment problem. although he could have done better on alot of things congress is broken and cant decide on shit. i think that is the main problem. And out of the running candidates i think obama is the best. Ron paul wants to abolish the income tax??? How the hell is the government not going to get into more debt by doing that. in order to pay off our debt we need to pay taxes and a lot more thanks to previous generations over spending our money. Raise taxes legalize bud and hemp and cutting government spending is what we need. I dont see Mitt being any better than Bush. Im afraid people are just going to vote for Romney because obama hasn't done what we have exepcted of him.
May 3 2012 11:47PM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
Oh, and the Bush tax cuts were extended.

Honestly, republicans don't have much reason to bitch.
May 3 2012 11:48PM
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Sam.Carson
Posts: 2884 - Karma: 33
Obama has such a great chance of going down in history as one of the worst presidents ever in my opinion. Everything he said he would do at the beginning of his presidential race hasn't happened. best thing he did was bring troops home from Iraq. stimulus package was the biggest waste of money in history. Said it would help everything and it just led to everything it was meant for becoming worst. Unemployment is shot, debt is skyrocketed, occupy members are rioting through america.
NOBAMA
May 4 2012 12:41AM
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Sam.Carson
Posts: 2884 - Karma: 33
yup yup yup. Ron Paul is the best solution but unfortunately, Romney is winning by a landslide.
May 4 2012 1:05AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Obama on the national debt. Number #44 added over $5 trillion in just four years. From $30,000 per person to $50,000. Keep up the good work. I honestly feel sorry for you dumb fucks who still support this guy. Name one thing he has done to improve anything. It's do or die America.

Fuck Obama, he's gutting our armed forces while adding 16,000 more jobs to the IRS. You better get used to working 6 months out of the year for the government to pay for all the corrupt union based government salaries and all those "less fortunate" than you. That is, if you can even find a job.




May 4 2012 1:05AM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
Killed Osama Bin Laden.




As for the debt point, most of the increase in the debt under Obama is due to the crash that happened under Bush. Like I said, I think he could make the recovery faster and stronger, but there is a recovery.
May 4 2012 1:08AM
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Sam.Carson
Posts: 2884 - Karma: 33
no evidence to back this up but i know a lot of people in the military and they said from who they have spoken to and fought alongside with, Obama is a problem. They say that if shit hit the fan and I'm talking about really bad stuff like huge world war, large military majority would break apart and fight for the people, not the government.

Also Obama wants to take guns away, he has been trying to get it through congress. Thats destroying our second amendment which is meant to not be tampered with. Do your history hw, first step to socialism/communism is unarm the public and prevent retaliation. Walk into a Cabelas, their gun department is always busy.

Personal experience now, people with no money have been robbing and theft has increased over the past few years. My house alone has been attempted to be broken into and almost got my family's trailer stolen just the other day.

Again, NOBAMA
May 4 2012 1:18AM
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Bill.Nye
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 2,109
[Citation Needed]

In fact, under Obama's presidency, gun rights have expanded. You can now take a gun into a national park or onto an Amtrak train.
May 4 2012 1:21AM
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Sam.Carson
Posts: 2884 - Karma: 33
hahahahhahha he didn't kill Osama you dumbass. open your ears and eyes.They finally got intel about Osama and he took the chance and killed him. All he did was order the strike, the work came from those who ironically died in the helicopter. Seal team 6 did the work, not Obama. Look it up on Youtube also. Obama made a speech that he himself said, HE KILLED OSAMA. Really he just tried to gain support and took advantage of the situation. What probably happened that day, he sat in the oval office and told whoever it is to come get him when Osama was dead and thats it. He didn't do jack shit.
May 4 2012 1:22AM
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