Sachtler Tripods.

Where did you hear that? Sachtler Speedlock CF legs are rock solid. They have less torsional flex than the Miller legs. The only downside is that they are not nature-friendly, being cumbersome and all. The Sachtler aluminum legs on the other hand (that come with the FSB4), definitely leave a lot to be desired.

You could get away with using either the FSB4 or Cine DSLR, but the latter will be more versatile and therefore more future proof as your rig changes over time. Whether or not that's worth spending the extra money is something only you can answer.

Vinten Vision Blue gets a lot of praise, but I was honestly disappointed. It felt like an improved Manfrotto head; nowhere near the precision and build of the Sachtler models, in my opinion.

Forgot to add: the FSB6 will work better than the FSB4 considering your weight range, however I would suggest the Cine DSLR because it acts like an FSB6 that can take any camera down to .5 lbs, which is unmatched by any other fluid head that I know of.

http://boulder.craigslist.org/pho/2950630275.html

I read about the sticks not being "all that great" on this forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/tripod-sticks-heads/

He's basically pointing out that sub $3000 legs aren't perfect, which is totally correct. The Sachtler Speedlock 75 CF are great legs as far as carbon fiber 2:1:1 legs go, but I personally find the 2:1:1 design to not work so well with the rugged environment of mountaineering.

I use the carbon fiber Miller Solo DV 75 and I love them. They are pretty much the same weight as the Manfrotto 055xb, only beefier and MUCH more stable. There is no play whatsoever in any of the parts, and the single pole design allows me to grab and go quickly and set up on rugged terrain where spreaders muck everything up. So far I've been able to shoot at 200mm on 7D without any microjiggles, and I judge my footage uncompressed on a 46" 1080p LCD television via HDMI. With an even heavier camera, it will only be more stable.

So yes, physically speaking, there is some form of bounce (not bounce back, which refers to the head) and torsional flex, but by using lightweight carbon fiber legs, you're essentially sacrificing stability for portability. It becomes a balancing act, and to me the Miller legs are the perfect balance because they're simple, rugged, sturdy, and damn near weightless. If it means anything, I've never seen a single case of micro jiggles in my footage using the Millers, and you'd be hard pressed to find it in the Sachtler Speedlock 75 CF unless you were tapping around on the legs expecting it to remain unaffected the way heavy duty cinema legs would (this is a hopeless expectation).

I will strongly advise against certain aluminum Sachtler legs, as they are mediocre at best and definitely leave more to be desired.

So I've Narrowed it down to:

I have a Secced (which are sachtler knock offs) and the head is actually really impressive. The legs I have are too heavy for on mountain use though, I'll probably pick up a pair of single tube legs when I go to NYC in July from b&h's store.

http://www.secced.com/description.aspx?id=159

that looks right around what your payload is. I have a dv4 and fully rigged is cutting it close.

Landis, I can't remember if you tried them yet or not?

The Cine DSLR w/ CF Speedlock legs is the best deal. Separately, they cost about $2k total.

I should also add that the difference in stability between the Speedlock and Solo legs are going to be minimal, which is why I went with the Solo legs. If you want absolute stability, find some old metal legs on craigslist and have fun hauling those around. Truth is, absolute stability is fucking heavy and can't be had outside of a studio setting. You're better off just accepting that.

However, you can get pretty stable shots with a lightweight setup. I know the Miller Solo CF legs were used to shoot s16 telephoto footage in Planet Earth. Really, if you need anything more stable than the Speedlock or Solo legs, you're going to need a geared head to even benefit from sturdier legs.

I can personally attest however, that the Sachtler aluminum legs in question will leave you disappointed. They feel cheap and aren't too stable.

About Secced...I wouldn't dump money into knockoffs. Buy something tried and true.

Son of a bitch.

buy it used?

I don't see the problem? Separately that should run you at least $2k.

As of right now I am heavily leaning towards the Vinten Vision Blue.

The FSB4 and Ace's payloads of 8.8lbs are simply not enough for my evolving setup.

Vinton Vision Blue, in my opinion, is insanely overpriced. I feels like a well-damped Manfrotto at best (both being owned by Vitec says nothing about quality). You might as well spring the extra money for a Sachtler head and save up for legs.

Keep an eye on DVXuser for used legs. It doesn't take any sort of technical prowess to make legs stable; they only need to be heavy. What I did was buy the Sachtler head, and used some heavy ass Manfrotto 351MVB2 legs for a year while I saved up for some Miller Solo DV CF legs ($600 off DVXuser new). They were a pain in the ass, but they were stable and my footage didn't suffer because of it. My new legs are faster/easier/lighter, but in terms of sheer results they aren't far off.

Thanks for all of your input Landis.

I'm considering ordering the Blue from B&H (when that shit gets in stock, they sell like crazy) and testing it out. If it doesn't meet my standards I will return it and buy a Sachtler. I might order both at the same time since B&H is the best about this stuff. I've had to return lenses a few times until I got good copies and I had no issues. While I trust your opinion, I really need to try for myself; nobody in my area carries Vinten nor Sachtler.

I have an FSB-8 arriving tomorrow to replace a Cartoni Focus (junk). I've always been a fan of Sachtler heads.

Good on ya; I encourage you to find out for yourself rather than take my word for it.

Landis / Alex / OP : What are your thoughts on Miller heads, specifically the compass series? They look to be a bit on the more expensive side of the Vision Blue and FSB6, but the build looks more robust than the Sacthlers (just from online images). Any reason this hasn't been brought up as an option? Just some food for thought.

I've never had the opportunity to use a Compass head. I hear they're nice, but I also hear pretty from pretty much everyone that Sachtler heads can't be beat for under $2k.

Sachtlers look more plasticky than other heads in photos, but once you use one in person you'll see that it's mostly black metal parts. Bombproof. Although the legs that come with the FSB4 as a kit feel pretty cheap: light, plastic, and flexy. They'll get you through the day when it comes down to it, but they definitely leave more to be desired, especially if you do heavy/intricate telephoto work. If the Miller Solo DV aluminum legs are anything like the Solo DV carbon fiber legs, you won't be disappointed. Mine are amazingly stable for legs of this design, carbon fiber no less.

Sachtler heads are robust. As Landis said, there is little plastic on them. They are a bit on the heavier side, but they can take a beating.

Also look into the older Vinten Vision heads. I used one of those for a few years and it was solid. Can't remember the exact model. But if you search ebay, they're all over.

I honestly think I can't go wrong with Vinten or Sachtler. Very excited whichever way I go.

The Vinten Vision Blue IS a Vinten Vision 6 with a built in spring that allows for variable counterbalancing. They took a $2000 head and put a spring meant for 4-11lb rigs. Changed up the outer casing, included solid sticks, and made it a package for just ove $1000.

That is why I am so heavily leaning towards Vinten.

So excited to have a properly balanced tripod. I'll finally be able to make reliable movements (pan and tilt at the same time?!)

Thanks boys.