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How to kill yourself in Finland

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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089

It's simple, take your family and loved ones with you.

This morning, a 40-year-old man was driving his car just outside rural Helsinki and swerved onto a an oncoming truck. The man died on impact and the car was destroyed, bursting into violent flames - the truck driver was unharmed. Police and medics arrived on the scene and after figuring out the man's identity, they tried to reach his wife to deliver the sad news. They could not reach her and ordered a patrol car to visit the house of the deceased.

They found the wife in the house, murdered, along with the couple's two children, both less than five years old.

The crazy thing is that this is becoming a Finnish tradition. Just this past year, there have been seven similar cases. A parent or both parents decide that life is not worth living anymore and also make a pretty arbitrary decision for their children as well. If the heads of the house can't go on, neither should their seed. Now, Finland has some pretty gruesome statistics when it comes violent murders and suicide rate, but these all-or-nothing family cases have increased alarmingly during the last decade. In families with children, a parent offing only themselves is starting to become an exception to the rule.

Many of us have been at low points in our lives, First World problems or not, but the thought of depriving your loved ones of the possibility for a normal life, or even just existing is pretty devastating and hard to understand. Many cases have been about funds, money - someone gets fired or bankrupts their company; all is lost, better just kill my family and be done with it.

Many of these cases are even more tragic because they come completely out of the blue. With the most recent cases, there have been no records or reported history of abuse or psychological issues in the assailants nor their environment. Few reports have come out that investigators have concluded jealousy or spite to be indicative in some of these cases. To be so jealous of someone's life moving on...

They have just snapped and stolen lives of their loved ones out of pure selfishness. I want to loathe them, but even more I would like to understand what creates these situations, situations where the only way out is full-blown.


April 2011:
Father kills former spouse, their son and himself.

October 2011:
Father kills wife and 10-year-old son with a knife and jumps to his death.

November 2011:
Two young children die in fire. Father is badly burned but rescued - admits setting the fire.

December 2011:
Mother kills two young daughters and tries to kill herself, but is saved in the ER.

Father kills two daughters and wife and tries to kill himself with a machete, is apprehended by the police and lives.

January 2012:
Man kills wife and two daughters with a knife, sets fire to the apartment and waits for the police to arrive, admits eveything.



And now this case today. It's a pretty sullen trend.


Apr 13 2012 2:14PM
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powderdrunkie
Posts: 2034 - Karma: 976

damn.

on a lighter note it reminds me of that south park episode when they nuke finland and take all the space cash.

Apr 13 2012 2:17PM
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theline
Posts: 1507 - Karma: 92
yikes. fucking finland man...
Apr 13 2012 2:19PM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
Holy that stuff is intense.
Apr 13 2012 2:19PM
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JamesR
Posts: 3396 - Karma: -12
I would hesitate to call it a trend. That's still very few cases. I think when "normal" people do things like that it illustrates how what we think of as "normal" is unhealthy. It makes people very uncomfortable to think that events like those can be traced back to something as simple as inconsistent parenting. So society labels it as an anomaly and moves on.
Apr 13 2012 2:21PM
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PopsicleStand
Posts: 6890 - Karma: 147
People do that here to, although maybe to a lesser extent.

Off the top of my head from the last 3 weeks or so

-Man(70's) tries to kill himself (unsuccessful) and his wife (60s, successful) with CO poisoning.
-Man (50s) burns down trailer with him and his wife inside (both lived)
-Old lady tried to kill herself and all her cats with CO poisoning (all unsuccessful)
-Man shot himself and his wife (both in their 40s) both died
-Man (20s) beat his girlfriend badly and left his 17 month old at a walmart and cut his neck (he was fine)

Many many more over my career, I just mentioned a few that were fresh in my mind. Without quoting any actual statistics, suicides seem to affect the retirement age+ category the most, and many times they attempt to bring family.

Apr 13 2012 2:24PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
how should Finland take better care of its citizens with mental health problems?
Apr 13 2012 2:25PM
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Poems
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 3
Man that's really fucked up.. I remember hearing about these cases a while back. It's pretty depressing.
Apr 13 2012 2:28PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,725
Quebecer will remember the Cardiologist Dr. Guy Turcotte murder case. His wife seperated with him, he went to his home, stabbed his 6 year old daughter 40 some odd times and then killed his 4 year old son pretty much in the same way.

You know what he got? Aquitted on all charges for temporary insanity, did 3 months in a psych ward and got the green light for release as the psychologists deemed him a "model patient". This is modern Justice...its not what you do, its how high in society you are.

Fuck this world, I am no longer a citizen of any country in the world.
Apr 13 2012 2:28PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Considering the amount of homicides in Finland over the last decade and looking at the amounts of these "Everyone Goes" cases, it's still a pretty big and swiftly increasing anomaly. Maybe trend was a wrong word to use.

Apr 13 2012 2:28PM
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ChocolateMilk.
Posts: 1129 - Karma: 220
Was expecting this...
Click for larger image
But this is awful :/
Apr 13 2012 2:30PM
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Dr.Gonzo
Posts: 2552 - Karma: 87
thats really creepy, I cant believe someone could just kill their children, you would have to be really fucked up.
Apr 13 2012 2:32PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
The state of mental healthcare is pretty bad at the moment, it completely depends on who you ask. The level of education for psychiatric positions is high and qualified and people are willin to help, but the amount of people who need help but won't receive treatment even for years (my friend was on queue for psychotherapy for 14 months and she was deeply depressed) and people who are fucked in the head but will not seek help intentionally are growing, waiting to implode.

Apr 13 2012 2:33PM
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PopsicleStand
Posts: 6890 - Karma: 147
I guess I wasn't specific enough with my post, after reading everyone elses posts.

Anecdotally, most of my suicides or attempts are from people that are 50+. Generally they are men. They can be unscientifically categorized in two ways, suicide because of general hopelessness, or "no reason to live anymore", meaning terminal illness or loss of job or something like that.

The "no reason to live anymore's" usually are successful with killing themselves, and dont take anyone with them. They generally leave a note saying that they didnt want to be a burden.

The hopeless ones (depression, family strife, turmoil of some other sort) will often bring everyone with them. These can be more spur of the moment attempts too, going hand in hand with alcoholism or other substance abuse.

All of that is just observation^. My point is I have been seeing this for a while, and feel like its not new. Take that for what its worth.
Apr 13 2012 2:37PM
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JamesR
Posts: 3396 - Karma: -12
I just meant for the few everyone goes cases. So homicide overall is trending upwards? That's interesting because, at least outwardly, Finland appears to be nonviolent. What's going on there?
Apr 13 2012 2:39PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Well, especially family-related killings like these are on the rise. And I really don't know. Even if you are poor as fuck in Finland, you still live in a society that has bumpers and safety nets built for just those reasons, but some just keep falling through the cracks.

In 2010, a man was fired from his job, an engineer with a good life. It was just a minor bump on the road, nothing of importance was lost, only a job. He went home, left a note that his family would be in financial peril and he would not let his two children die in poverty, shooting them in their beds with a hunting rifle and then killing his wife and himself. I was trying to find the news about it but couldn't right now. No reported history of anything.
Apr 13 2012 2:44PM
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DaveM
Posts: 2936 - Karma: 1,558
I wouldn't be so quick to call it a trend but yes that is a pretty alarming statistic. I would be curious to see if these numbers are actually higher than other regions with these types murder-suicide problems.
Apr 13 2012 2:54PM
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captainEMERICA
Posts: 1386 - Karma: 122
Its a good thing their schools are so good!
Apr 13 2012 3:01PM
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mikk
Posts: 451 - Karma: 107
Yes, they have good school/education system there, but what I can recall, there has been many violent incidents among the students, like shooting.
Lots of estonian papers reflect the ongoing.





Apr 13 2012 3:10PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
Similar thing happened just down the road from me. A dude locked his wife and kids in the house and lit it on fire. He accidentally lit himself on fire too and the neighbour saw him burning in the driveway.
Apr 13 2012 3:19PM
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dmc12380
Posts: 3545 - Karma: 792
I remember back like 15 years ago, a man in my neighborhood (80 yrs old) was diagnosed with cancer so one night he decided to blow out his wife's brains in her sleep, then offed himself. I remember driving by a few days after this happened and seeing them being taken out on stretchers. It was pretty sad actually.
Apr 13 2012 3:31PM
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LarryPowers
Posts: 332 - Karma: 138
.
Apr 13 2012 3:48PM
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Lolocaust.
Posts: 1716 - Karma: 512
Damn, that's fucking crazy. Thinking of killing my siblings or parent make me cringe. Having that much depression must feel horrible.
Apr 13 2012 4:16PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
Damn dude that is fucked up
Apr 13 2012 4:25PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Sarcasm?
Apr 13 2012 8:03PM
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tbayskier
Posts: 1137 - Karma: 1,640
no, Finnish schools are actually really good
Apr 13 2012 8:05PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
So I've heard, I just thought he meant it like

"If their schools are so good, why are they killing their families?"
Apr 13 2012 8:08PM
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tbayskier
Posts: 1137 - Karma: 1,640
oh gotcha
Apr 13 2012 8:11PM
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AWALLRUS.
Posts: 5762 - Karma: 223
probably influenced by cobhc!


Apr 13 2012 8:17PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Joking aside, are you familiar about the incident where Children of Bodom got their name from?
Apr 13 2012 9:02PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Yes, we've had two big school shootings, in 2007 and 2008.

Humanity is overrated etc.
Apr 13 2012 10:04PM
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AWALLRUS.
Posts: 5762 - Karma: 223
as a matter of fact I am.

TRIPLE CORPSE HAMMER BLOW!
as i recall some teens went camping upon the lake bodom and were murdured waaaay back in the day and 3 got knife murdured and then one of them got away.

then the one who got away was tried recently and proven innocent.

COB was my favourite band for a long time and I think it's a pretty interesting/eerie story
Apr 13 2012 10:11PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Seems like yesterday's case is still a bit unclear, but some info has trickled down from the police, saying that the children were killed before the wife, so they're not ruling out that both parents were involved in the children's deaths.

They lived in a very luxurious area of Helsinki and the husband was an executive of a large company.
Apr 14 2012 8:32AM
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Mr.Turtle
Posts: 3690 - Karma: 96
well guns are illegal there
Apr 14 2012 8:35AM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
i was hoping for a thread in which mike-o was asking for suicide help, i am dissapointed
Apr 14 2012 8:57AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
This being the Internet, serious business and all that stuff aside, that's actually a pretty fucking harsh thing to say.
Apr 14 2012 9:00AM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
i thought it was funny
Apr 14 2012 9:13AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Cute.
Apr 14 2012 9:54AM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,240
too far bro
Apr 14 2012 10:06AM
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gwhitey
Posts: 2249 - Karma: 312
this reminds me of hot fuzz for some reason
Apr 14 2012 10:19AM
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blackmamba.
Posts: 969 - Karma: 56
Couldn't imagine being that 'low' on life that killing myself would be a viable option, let alone my whole family. The thing is, depression/suicidal thoughts are still somewhat of a taboo subject. I mean, people aren't willing to open up and divulge their true self feelings (in a sense); therefore, there is little to no opportunity for prevention as a suicidal individual is nearly impossible to point out at first glance. That said, there are normally underlying signs, but friends/family/co-workers tend to overlook them as they themselves cannot necessarily relate/understand the situation/context in which something was said or done. There's still a long road ahead, imo.
Apr 14 2012 10:49AM
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saskskierftw
Posts: 898 - Karma: 62
This is just to crazy for me to understand..
Apr 14 2012 11:03AM
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JamesR
Posts: 3396 - Karma: -12
I think that's the problem, but it goes even deeper than that. People generally don't feel able to express any of their true self to people around them, it's not just the darker feelings. And when people go through their whole lives having their true self beaten down by others and crushing it themselves, that part of them is completely destroyed. What you have left is an amoral black pit within the shell of a human being that is unable to deal with the world in any way other than through manifesting that depression and rage in such a way that people are forced to acknowledge it.
Apr 14 2012 1:13PM
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Crossfade
Posts: 743 - Karma: 24
ahem such a sobering topic.  best cure for a hangover: click on one of Mike-O's threads.
Apr 14 2012 1:34PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,549
This happens in other places too.

A person I knew, his father had some marital problems, killed the son (my friend) and the daughter before killing himself.

There are fucked up people everywhere.
Apr 14 2012 5:30PM
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snowbombz
Posts: 2456 - Karma: 96
Its like Siberia, just with cooler neighbors!

If Scandinavia was a family, Finland would be the sibling with drug problems.
Apr 14 2012 6:37PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I'm not saying something like this doesn't happen elsewhere, just pointing out a very visible "trend" of family-based murder-suicides in an otherwise semi-peaceful country.


And Lineskier10, fuck you, seriously.
Apr 14 2012 7:56PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
Which company and in what industry? That could be a key factor.
Apr 14 2012 8:09PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Hasn't been revealed yet, and maybe never will be officially, but he was in a high position.
Apr 14 2012 8:11PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
i have my own issues with this kind of thing and i don't care to share really, but i just don't understand how someone can get it in their head to take their family with them like that. i mean if you wanna die, whatever, do what you want, but it doesn't mean the people around you want the same thing. suicide is one thing, homicide is another.
Apr 14 2012 8:17PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
Well, if he was an executive or director of an MNC, than his job would be the only thing I can see influencing him enough to want to kill his own family. Maybe he recognized the detriment, pain and suffering that unethical business practices can so easily inflict (and they do) on possibly hundreds of millions of people? The NYC subway station closest to NYSE has the highest suicide rates of the entire city (which also accounts for 7% of all suicides in the city).

Maybe he saw the world as an unjust and evil place, so much to the extent that he could not bear the thought of not only himself living in it, but also his own family. So he ends his family members lives, and then his own?

Thats my take in it. I wonder what kind of lives the other finlanders lived...
Apr 14 2012 10:24PM
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