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Philosophical Questions

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Dr_Feelgood
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 15

Seeing as my girlfriend is incredibly philosophical I've had to hear plenty of these aver the past three years. At first I had absolutely no interest in thinking, and all I wanted to do was smoke weed and play videogames. As time progressed my mind has been filled with flashbacks of epic Call of Duty and Halo moments, but has also taken in a lot of these questions and arguments that we have had.

An example:

If there were 100 people in a church and you knew there was one that had vital information about a terrorist attack that could kill thousands, would you personally torture everyone in the church until you found the one that had the information? The group includes men, women, and children.

Or, on a lighter note:

What if oxygen made your voice deeper and helium brought it back to normal?

I found that last one on iwastesomuchtime.com, which I must say is an excellent tool for making time pass. Anyways, if you have any interest in philosophy or any interesting questions to add post them up. I would love to hear what you guys and gals are thinking.

Mar 29 2012 4:13PM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
ive done a lot of logic, its pretty fascinating. i can definitely say that it has completely changed the way i look at the world.
Mar 29 2012 4:26PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
the border to "dumb hipster fuckhead acting like a deep-thinker" is pretty narrow
Mar 29 2012 4:28PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
Do things other than ourselves really exist or do we just sub consciously fabricate all interaction with other organisms and every object virtual,animated or inanimate for our own amusement. If so ' I ' am not really writing this because first of all I don't exist as myself I am you and secondly there is no such thing as ns you created it in your sub concious for your amusement, thus we don't exist. But maybe because you created me and NS in your head we do exist
Mar 29 2012 4:36PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Your first question is pretty rooted on skewed morality and values, considering that it just had to have a church and terrorist in the cue... I don't know, could have just gone with a more classic version, like

You are an old explorer, travelling with another younger companion, and stumble onto a lost tribe. They are ruthless and capture you both. As they seem to respect elders more, instead of killing you both immediately they give you a choice - kill your companion yourself and live, or they will kill you both.

What's the "right" decision?
Mar 29 2012 4:37PM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
also, first question is pretty dumb, second question has almost nothing to do with philosophy
Mar 29 2012 4:43PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
True, Second one is just reversed 'reality'
Mar 29 2012 4:45PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
that one is actually from a german science magazine:

what if you watch a train roll towards a group of people standing on the rails and youre standing beneath a really fat person. if you push the fat guy on the rails, it will stop the train and kill him. youre too skinny to prevent the train from rolling.

do you stop the train by killing the fat guy? what if the group of people are doctors? babies? prisoners? what if the fat guy is a convicted criminal? does it matter?

if i remember correctly, they conducted a survey with such questions and apparently most people wouldnt push the guy unless hes a criminal, but also wouldnt stop him from falling.

Mar 29 2012 4:45PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
where did you find a three thousand year old science magazine?
Mar 29 2012 4:52PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
not really getting it.
Mar 29 2012 4:53PM
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Cufe.
Posts: 1950 - Karma: 262
perhaps I am a heartless person, but I see that as a numbers thing. If it takes one persons life to save 20 then that one life is worth giving (this, of course, is running on the idea each person is equal which may not be the case.)

my thoughts on this can be represented in a formula like this:
a+b(≤or≥)x+y
a in this case equals the number of lives given to save the people represented in x.
b would be any modifiers such as lives they may have saved or will save.
y represents the modifiers on them such as lives they have taken or lives they have saved.

This of course is relying on knowledge about the situation and the people it affects.
Mar 29 2012 5:05PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
Not really philosophy but still interesting: I think I'm safe to say that none of you have seen Leonardo DaVinci then again I suspect you would not doubt his existence one could say you believe he existed however why is it so many people do not believe that God or Jesus exist or existed?
Mar 29 2012 5:09PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51626 - Karma: 162,075
I'll add one to the thread

How big is your wiener?
Mar 29 2012 5:11PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
Utilitarianism.

It seems like the right idea - the end justifies the means with the greatest utility/value as the goal.    But when you really get down to it there are things that make it difficult.     I know you specified that the context matters, but to a true Utilitarian it shouldnt.  So say the fat person was your dad, you are still supposed to push him - so long as the train would be killing worthwhile people.  
I did an essay on it last month and basically concluded that people cant be genuine Utilitarians.   Its more of an idea for robots.
Mar 29 2012 5:11PM
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Cufe.
Posts: 1950 - Karma: 262
of course, making it a personal thing (son, friend, wife, ect) would make it much harder and I know in the numbers it makes sense to throw one to save 20. I definitely agree that its nearly impossible for human to make those decisions easily though. I was working on the assumption that you did not know the people you had to kill or save, I have the feeling real life would not work that way though.
Mar 29 2012 5:22PM
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KEVTRON
Posts: 3545 - Karma: 1,222
"If a fat girl falls in the woods, do the trees laugh?"
Mar 29 2012 5:26PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
I know someone who claims they can feel trees emotions so if you asked her she'd say yes
Mar 29 2012 5:28PM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
unthreads
Mar 29 2012 5:45PM
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es94
Posts: 291 - Karma: 67
heres a few things i think about while laying awake and staring at the ceiling at night..

-From the time something happens to the time your eye sees it and your brain processes it, there is a split-second but that is time nonetheless. so everything you are seeing right now is the past.

-When our sun inevitably goes all black hole n' shit and sucks up all matter and energy and time as well, does that mean we will have never really existed? or does our consciousness now and the acknowledgement that we exist imply some sort of permanence in the universe.

-Atoms are tiny, the universe is large beyond measure.  We are at a spot in between, it is entirely random.  SO the notion of "large" and "small" has no bearing on reality.  rather, it is just a human creation. You can say something is tiny but what is tinier than that? half of that. then half of that. it goes on infinitely.

-The idea of not existing (before birth/after death) ps im an atheist, dont want to start a religious thread, but for clarification i have no belief in an afterlife.

-How come the food i put in my mouth is all different colors, but the poop that comes out is always brown? o.O
Mar 29 2012 6:44PM
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EC-Skier
Posts: 3899 - Karma: 668
wait... youre kidding right? im touching things.. how else could you pull something? wtf?
i am so confused!!
Mar 29 2012 7:01PM
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Mtougas
Posts: 870 - Karma: 77
First of all, we have things to show that DaVinci existed. Second, I don't think there is any proof of god existing at all. Third, I am pretty sure most people do not doubt that Jesus existed. But believing he existed and believing that he had special powers and that we should worship him is a completely different thing.
Mar 29 2012 7:09PM
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EC-Skier
Posts: 3899 - Karma: 668
im saying. if you cant actually touch something how could you hold it and pull it? this is fucking with my mind
Mar 29 2012 7:09PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
you better back this up, or you're a class A dipshit
Mar 29 2012 7:10PM
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Mtougas
Posts: 870 - Karma: 77
Im quite sure I have learned the same thing before. It is hard to understand because it is at such a small scale.
Mar 29 2012 7:13PM
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LittleFoot
Posts: 1667 - Karma: 57
hey look at all these smart people in this smart thread talking about all sorts of smart person things.
Mar 29 2012 7:18PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
This is just something I got out one of my rents books at home wanted to see peoples reactions on it
Mar 29 2012 7:29PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
Well suppose proportionatel
Mar 29 2012 7:55PM
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squashmosh
Posts: 632 - Karma: 565
Fuck mobile I'm out
Mar 29 2012 7:56PM
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Caspaaa
Posts: 4830 - Karma: 1,466
he's right, we learned it in Chem

the distance in between would be so extremely small, but still there is open space in between.

another few things to ponder....



What if our universe is simply a dust molecule on the floor of some infinitely larger world?
What if life is one big dream and once we die we awake to the real world?
What if oxygen is a hallucinogen, and everything we see is one big hallucination?
My color red might not be the same as your color red, and nobody will ever be able to prove it.
What if we are another beings test subject, the earth being our "cage" whilst they watch and observe our reactions to natural disasters and other things such as how we react with one another?
In the grand scheme of time, our lifespan is equivalent to absolutely nothing, yet it is the longest experience we will ever have.
What if hallucinogenic drugs allow us to see what our world is really like?
What if we don't exist, but rather, our minds are materializing the world around us and our senses to go along with it? For all we know, we could be floating masses of electricity, but our minds have created this "world" that we live in.


Mar 29 2012 8:00PM
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EC-Skier
Posts: 3899 - Karma: 668
ive thought about most of these for so long! freaky shit man!
also
the universe is endless, but how can something have no end? does it go on forever? how can something go on forever? but if there is an end how does it end, and what is at the end?
really annoying to think about
Mar 29 2012 8:05PM
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es94
Posts: 291 - Karma: 67
What if there is a great number of other phenomena occurring around us but none of our human senses can detect it? try and think of what it could be. you probably cant because you can only theorize what something new would feel/look/sound like
Mar 29 2012 9:17PM
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e_strapp
Posts: 1116 - Karma: 212
Here's one I ponder a lot and get quite upset about lol, what is nothing? Is there such a thing as nothing?
Mar 29 2012 9:49PM
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gyarados
Posts: 1186 - Karma: 399
in order to figure this out we must know your definition of a right, and which theory of rights it is based off of.
Ronald Dworkin stated that a right is having an aspect or area of life open without any outside influence/interference. i think by "right decision" you mean "moral decision."
now with regards to morality there are tons of theorist -Kant, aristotle, the church, and utilitarianists- who each have a different approach to defining a morally 'right' decision. in the situation suggested Aristotle would say that because a human telos, life goal, is to be happy; therefore killing your companion in order for life is a completely 'moral' decision. also since your intention is good then the choice is moral despite the outcomes. Kant on the other hand would say no because he believes on the categorical imperatives, which are guidelines rather than rules. the formula f the end in itself is one of these categorical imperatives, it states that an action is only moral if our reason for performing is a reason that everyone could have and that if the decision would become a universal law, would the world still be inhabitable? no, because everyone would be killing each other. now onto the utilitarians which may seem the most likely choice for modern moralists until one dives into what is really believed. a basic tenet of utilitarians is the principle of utility, stated by John Mills, means that the moral choice is one that brings the greatest amount of pleasure to the greatest amount of people. following this tenet would redoubtably agree with you killing your companion because you are technically saving one more life then if you did nothing.
since a right decision may be the legal one, it may not be the moral one.
Mar 29 2012 10:46PM
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Mr.Misty
Posts: 105 - Karma: 54
quantum tunneling?
Mar 29 2012 10:58PM
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a_stromme
Posts: 65 - Karma: 66
You are talking more ethics stuff then philosophy. In my experience philosophy has to do with much more simple questions, questions ilk: What is touch? What is feeling? Is there any evidence for the existence of any thing other than our senses?

You guys really want a mind-trip, read about quantum physics, the leading physicists have determined that matter can exist in two places AT ONCE. So that means that there have to be multiple universes! But even weirder than that, when you place a machine at the spot where matter had existed in two places but then re-run the experiment, THE MATTER BEHAVES DIFFERENTLY. So they are literally proving that when nothing is watching matter exists in two places at once, but when something is watching ITS BEHAVIOR CHANGES!!!!!

Heres the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYBwLysvB8

So this means that there are some physicists, literally some of the smartest people of our time, who believe that when you are looking away from something, and no one else is watching it, it literally is mass of grey ooze that is existing in multiple universes.

Also, for a different approach, watch the movie, DMT: The Spirit Molecule, thats some weird stuff man.

Sorry, but this stuff just fascinates me soooooo much.

Mar 30 2012 12:12AM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
4 categories of philosophy

metaphysics:  study of reality - concerns the nature of things, what exists etc.
epistemology:  study of  knowledge - what we know and how we know anything
logic: rules for rational thought and rules for forming rational arguments
axiology (ethics): study of value - what is 'right' and what is 'good etc. 
Mar 30 2012 12:40AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
time to answer some of these right up:

Caspaa: all your questions were pretty much what if's, and the answer to almost all of them is then thats what happens. for example: what if our universe is just a tiny speck in a bigger universe: then thats what it is. it just means that thats how things work.

ECskier: endless means endless, yes, it means it goes on forever. just because we cant really comprehend the idea of infinity because we have never experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. now, if the universe is infinite or not i don't know any more cause supposedly it is growing which implies it has a limit but maybe all infinity really is is something that never stops growing

es94: it may just be. multiple dimensions/universes may apparently be real, which i think is kind of what you are talking about?

esteezey: nothing is nothing. another one of those concepts that because humans can't comprehend it they call bullshit on it. a bogus way to shoot down the big bang theory if you ask me.
Mar 30 2012 12:44AM
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a_stromme
Posts: 65 - Karma: 66
My bad, I'm halfway through this intro to philosophy book, and I have only encountered metaphysics and epistemology, thats why I said in my experience haha.
Mar 30 2012 12:46AM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
yea:   its a bogus way that people shoot down many theories.      
Mar 30 2012 12:48AM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,484
Threads so I can read all of these later
Mar 30 2012 1:00AM
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cubber
Posts: 1933 - Karma: 638
You could say that the bible is the proof of God existing (though he didnt write it, etc etc), just as the DaVinci paintings, writings, and papers are proof of Davinci's existence. Since nobody alive was around when either proof was created, and all we have are stories passed along, neither are proof, and every story could be a government conspiracy to make money. I made that argument in philosophy class. moving right along
Mar 30 2012 2:33AM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
I constantly think about quantum theory and its philosophical implications in terms of determinism. Also, I tend to think a lot about morality. The idea of a theistic god that cares about our existence is absolutely ridiculousness to me (not to mention that all monotheistic religions tend to teach some extremely immoral laws and rules) so i tend to believe in a type of innate morality that has been acquired throughout evolution and has been passed down from our earliest ancestors.

For example, we were all part of small tribes, therefore if you helped out someone in your tribe ,or another, the chances of you seeing that person again in your lifetime was extremely high. So doing something kind for that person put you in a better position and increased your rate of survival because you would be helped out or spared by that tribe in a scenario further down the road. Richard Dawkins writes a lot on this subject and it is very interesting.

On the other hand I do think that besides certain innate instincts (morals) the rest of our conceived morality is pretty relative.
Mar 30 2012 2:47AM
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cubber
Posts: 1933 - Karma: 638
On a related note, I just watched Donnie Darko and it amazed me, I love movies that are super interesting while being all wtf simultaneously... I also like the smart dude in Breakout Kings, pointing out why people are lying/honest/scared/anything, cool behavioral things and stuff are way too interesting
Mar 30 2012 2:55AM
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cow.
Posts: 416 - Karma: 200
only two scientific faux pas:

our sun will not turn into a black hole.

the size of something does not go on forever. E = mc^2, and energy is quantized (there is a tiny base unit of energy, and everything's energy is a multiple of this base). therefore there is a minimum threshold to particles with mass (and therefore volume).
Mar 30 2012 4:40AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
holy fucking this

related:

Mar 30 2012 11:18AM
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Lansfield
Posts: 2708 - Karma: 321

Intersting.

Mar 30 2012 11:25AM
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Wolffy
Posts: 949 - Karma: 131
I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together.
Mar 30 2012 12:17PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
Click for larger image

I feel as this is impossible, how would things like friction work then if nothing ever touches anything else?
Mar 30 2012 12:25PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
as though this is impossible*
Mar 30 2012 12:26PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
Yeah but it's easy to tell who is this and who knows what they're talking about. Trust me I deal with these shitheads in all of my classes
Mar 30 2012 3:15PM
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steep
Posts: 6063 - Karma: 298
I brought the oxygen one up in class today and people went crazy, it blew their minds hahahh. they were freaking out. it quickly spread around the school. thank you for that.
Mar 30 2012 6:17PM
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