Question for all you orange names and resort affiliated

not gonna post numbers but the hill i work at will be open for through may to try out staying open later in the season. this time of year people get PISSED when we shut down chairs during the day because few people show up. we have plenty of snow, just don't make money. so we stop the bleeding and close

for our situation it's simply not profitable to stay open later in the season.

my mountain closes stays open till the snows gone but this year thats probably gonna be in the next week or two. waaahhh

alright i can understand that. i'm talking about shutting down the whole mountain, until next year, when there is still plenty of snow to be skied on, only not as many people come to ski.

My local mountain that I teach at closed yesterday. Although they may have had enough snow for another week they just weren't making money. New Jersey has just had awful year for snow, and we have had a really bad season

lol yeah, we'll shut down early. in fact this past year we could have stayed open til mid july...we actually had to remove snow from runs to build the bike park because we had such a good year for snow.

i know it sounds foolish, but the public is totally over skiing come april...even in march visits drop dramatically.

i imagine i'd be done skiing come july too, for the most part at least. but when you have a 100 day season on a good year, you want to make the most of it. sucks for us east coasters.

You didn't factor in the seasons pass holders.

What if you also sold some sort of grocery pass that let people get a certain amount of food each day. Those people would be pissed.

OP, I'm pretty sure mountains have an agreement that they can close whenever they want. The opening/closing day isn't part of the contract.

because like little foot said, they already made their money off of us. we paid quite a lump of cash before the season even began, therefore it would be nice of them to honor our passes and open as long as possible. i'd be so down to pay an extra 100-150 dollars on my pass for my mountain to stay open another week or two (my season pass normally is 350ish)

A lot of resorts that are on borrowed land from the National Forestry Service I believe are on leasing deals where they have to close when the Forest Service needs them to. So it's not really up to the resort management sometimes.

Is this ALL resorts?

It takes a LOT more work and money to keep a mountain open than you think, ESPECIALLY in the spring time.

The biggest one being wages, you have to have all your essential staff on hand, this includes lift operators (at least 2 per lift, plus most mountains have a mid-shift for breaks), lift supervisors, lift mechanics, other maintenance personel, Terrain Attendants, custodial, kitchen, groom operators, instructor staff (if your open, you want to be able to give lessons if people want them), and rentals staff at the minimum. All of those people, even at just minimum wage (which MOST of those people make more than minimum wage), that's Thousands of dollars a day in wages alone.

Then you have to include Electricity costs...this is one of the biggest costs of a ski area (especially this year since most areas in the country relied mainly on snow making to have snow this year....while it's not an issue in a spring, it's a cost you have to recoup during the season). But lifts require a certain amount of electricity, the lodge and kitchen needs electricity, other buildings like office sections, patrol, ect need power.

Then there's the cost of grooming, each hour in a snow cat is huge money, diesel fuel is expensive, and parts for those cats when they break are expensive, so running them more than necessary is not ideal, that being said, spring slush that we all love so much takes a LONG time to groom, holes need to be filled, bare-spots covered, ect. and when the snow is soft cat's can't go up steep trails making grooming take even longer.

While it is annoying that the season ends when there's a lot of snow on the ground...it's a LOT of work to do and a LOT of money to shell out knowing you're probably not going to sell more than a couple dozen lift tickets (and most mountains discount spring lift tickets too...so you're not even making a lot on those few that you do sell). So it's very hard for owners to justify opening when they're not making money. Most areas past mid-february are open soley for Pass holders and to say they were open until ______.


As far as keeping pass holders happy, having pass holders is a gamble that ski areas play, and most of the time they lose. Yes, you paid for your pass...but how many times do you use it. I know people at my mountain that did the math and as of now they paid about $600 for a pass, but if they had bought a ticket each time they went it would have cost them over $3,000...the mountain is no longer making money when you come, in fact they're losing money each time you come after X number of times (if your pass is $500 and each ticket is $50, you go 10 times and it's paid off, that number is X). The gamble is that people won't go that many times...but that is usually rare. So, by now, the mountains are actually only open JUST to keep pass holders happy, by now most mountains aren't making any more money (some in VT, NH, Maine, CO, Utah, Wash, and Oregon are making money cause they got snow this year...but other areas got virtually zero natural snow this year...no natural snow usually equals no "weekend warrior/day tripper" ticket purchasers...which is where ski areas REALLY make their money. Pass holders really just help get the ball rolling (i.e. help pay for the initial snowmaking/season start-up costs...and even then, it's still just a small dent...a small 25ft jump is about $10,000 worth of snow/snowcat costs...imagine covering an entire mountain...).


sparknotes: mountain stops making money they need to close or they risk never opening again.

What's the reasoning behind this? on years with exceptional snowfall, season pass holders then get disappointed when the resort closes with a nice base still. I'm almost positive my resort is all privately owned land and not a reserved forest land.

Those dates are estimates, basically it's what the mountain "shoots" for. For example, my mountain shoots to be open the day after Thanksgiving and close sometime late March/early April...but weather/costs always change those dates...sometimes sooner, sometimes later.

*sigh*

would like to see some people post some more about this

read my first post...it'll make more sense.


Also, put yourself in the owners shoes....making no money is bad....and if you spend too much money in March/April you risk not having enough money to make snow in November/December (since they really don't make much money in between...but still have bills to pay for that time).

WOW. don't know how i missed that past on my first scroll through.


thanks for that though, answers a lot of questions. 25 grand to build a single 25 ft jump is ridiculous. i never knew it could cost so much. makes sense too with grooming, immensely large staff, etc. i guess it's just i see snow on the mountain and automatically think "they should still be open." oh well, post season hiking it is.

usually 10 grand...and that varies...but, yeah, it's still a lot of money.


It's a hard thing to understand, and it's something the mountain's fight every year...but it's a necessary thing to do in order to stay in business.

Have you guys never heard of hiking for turns?

your march break is gona suck

your march break is gona suck

oops... typed that wrong.


and to the dude saying that spring break will suck for him... every hill on the east coast will be closed by april break this year.

at Thredbo, our "official" open close dates are 11 june - 5th october. if we have enough snow to open early, we do. if we have enough to extend the season, we do. and its not like if theres only a foot of base we close, we ill stay open until you cant do any of the tree runs and most of the "snow" is muddy sluch, or just no snow. and forget about having snow in the lift lines.

Asks for Orange Names.

Gets only blue and green.

Honestly, I would bet there are more Blue/Green names that are directly involved in the goings on of a Ski Area than Orange names.

do you know how they afford to do so?

are you talking about blue hills? hahahaha

a hill by me will prolly stay open with just one run that is just a rope tow for a few weeks after the rest of the hill closes down. they did that for the beginning of the season when the weather sucked, which it did all season

nope togg. never heard of blue hills.

thanks for typing that out, too lazy...but hes right.

not to mention resorts/hills are have extremely low profit margins during regular season. that income comes mostly from f&B and lessons. the people who ski late season are usually people that have a seasons pass, don't spend $10+ a head on food, and don't need lessons.

This is my mountain, unfortunately because of this they are unable to hold after season or pre season rail jams.

It also depends on how the mountain makes it's money/what the marketing plan is.

$104 a day lift tiks, $13 for a burger, its kind of a monopoly within the village. we have epic snow making that needs to be pair for too

i think it has so do with insurance too

They sell all their minerals and gold, its australia...

I aint got no orange name but I gots orange skins and more years in the bidness than most of them

.....................

Even after season jib sessions, a lot of smaller resorts leave the rails up.

I skied Sierra at Tahoe and I know they need to sell 300 lift tickets at 72 dollars a piece to break even on a day where the full mountain is open

at least some of the people who answered are very directly involved with this sort of thing.

and if you don't like your mountain closing in early march, move out west.

or if you are too young to just pack up and move, wait until you are old enough and then move out west.

sfb might chastise me for buying into the dick bass bullshit bonanza spring skiing fun-time adventure club, but i rode lifts on the fourth of july last year .

after that, hiking for turns started.

i am 15, and in high school. trust me, i've talked to my parents seriously about going out west for college etc. and i'm probably going to do so when i graduate. however, until then i want to get the most out of my seasons here.

i have hiked for turns before. i have an edit in my profile of going to my mountain weeks after it closed and setting up some jibs, but i'd rather lap and i know many others would.

As mentioned many times above, it's all about money. Any day a resort opens there are costs involved, mainly staff and grooming costs. Knowing quite a bit about the financial side of things at Togg, it would be insane for them to stay open any later than they already do. Once March rolls around a good day is just breaking even...

As for balancing profit margins with customer satisfaction, it's a fine line. Staying open later in the season just isn't the best way to keep your season pass holders happy because it comes as too big of a loss for the company. I personally think other perks and incentives should be put in place. Something as simple as food discounts for pass holders would be a nice little perk to help keep the loyal customers happy and show your appreciation for them. Staying open late in the season and not making money just isn't an option...

When I play ski resort tycoon my cash just goes down. I have to cheat to make money.

I agree with most of what you said, but am going to have to insert a different perspective/opinion... the vast majority of season pass holders wouldn't be skiing $3000 worth of days if it actually cost them that much. So realistically, the season pass is getting them up to the mountain more often, which means they're going to buy more goods/services on the mountain than a pass holder who skis less often. So, if anything, I believe resorts make more from season passholders who frequent the mountain than those who don't. The lifts will be running regardless of who comes up on a given day... so it's not like they're losing money when a customer comes up 5 times a week, unless they are hitting some resort/parking capacity which is not allowing another customer to buy a day pass. I see season passes as a "gamble" of sorts as well, but I think that they usually win, they get a guaranteed 10~ tickets sold per person (months before the season starts!).

Where is this game?

you guys are all looking at it backwards. I've been talking about this with friends for a year or so now. You can't really blame the ski resorts for closing because their operational season is ultimately decided by the customers. There's always the push to have the mountain open for the x-mas holidays, even if the hill isn't fully ready yet. And they have to shut down early in the spring because people stop coming.

WE as the ski hill users (that's all of us from the holiday only skier, the weekend warrior, to the seasons pass holder) need to rethink when the ski season is. Problem is, when it's warm and sunny and the golf courses start to open in the valley, a lot of people just don't have skiing on the mind, even if the skiing is the best it's been all season.

I don't really care though because once the hill shuts down is the best skiing of the season - and we've got it all to ourselves.

I hear ten grand to blow snow all the time , they just throw big numbers out there

hahahaha