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Islam, the religion of peace and tolerance.

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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
What would be the world wide reaction from Muslims, if Brits Australians, Kewi's, or Canadian's decided to kick over some Muslim graves, and take sledge hammers to Islamic sculptures?

These must just be part of those 'fringe' 'extremest' groups.

I guess that is one way to say thanks for providing air superiority during our revolution and keeping us all from being systematically killed.

nothing to see here, move along. Just the religion of peace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/mar/04/british-war-graves-desecrated-libya-video?INTCMP=SRCH

Mar 5 2012 1:27PM
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.KYLE.
Posts: 1891 - Karma: 59
This is by far the most insane thing posted in this thread.
Mar 5 2012 10:41PM
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do.a.rodeo
Posts: 270 - Karma: -30
There's nothing 'radical' about my stance, buddy. Most people in the Western world aren't exactly huge fans of Islam, regardless of whether they have the balls to admit it.

If you re-read my original post, I think you'll find I didn't accuse them of anything...

However, I do strongly agree with you on your last point.
Mar 6 2012 2:28AM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
University of Toronto, Anything goes
Mar 6 2012 8:41AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
That's funny, though.

Most people in Finland are still christened into the Evangelic Lutheran by baptism when we are a couple months old. That means that most of the citizens in this country have to study Religion (Christianity, mostly) from the 3rd grade onwards, all the way up to high school where they can even choose an examination for the subject as an optional final (wasn't optional until six years ago) and have Religion on your Matriculation Examination Diploma.

Even so, Finland is one of the countries with more and more people leaving church at the age of 18 when it becomes legally possible. Most people here do not believe in any Gods, and even those who stay in church even though they do not believe, do it only because you can't get married in a church if you don't belong in it, a long Finnish tradition and "dream" for women.

Yet no one is suing anyone and by learning about religions, people don't necessarily become religious, you see?

Mar 6 2012 9:00AM
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JamesR
Posts: 3396 - Karma: -12
The Islamic world was a haven for science for hundreds of years whilst the Christian world rejected reason and philosophy and nearly destroyed itself. Widespread fundamentalist Islam is a fairly recent occurrence (particularly in places like Iran). Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have not traveled on a direct path from violent to peaceful. The amount of violence exhibited by followers -while generally trending towards peace- varies widely in both directions through time. In addition, it varies between geographic areas. To label one as more peaceful or more violent is to ignore history. Their texts? Look, books don't mean anything. I read Mein Kampf, and to this day I don't feel swayed toward Hitler's ideology. People learn from people, not from abstract concepts like "religion". If you want to know why certain people are violent, look for the people who were violent towards them.
Mar 6 2012 11:30AM
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do.a.rodeo
Posts: 270 - Karma: -30
Interesting post. +k
Mar 6 2012 4:18PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
yes but in the U.S. it is against the constitution for any religion to be involved in public schools or institutions.

I agree with you. It seems as though actually learning about christianity judaism, or islam actually turns you away from it because you realize how ridiculous it is.
Mar 6 2012 4:44PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
its a good thing because you actually learn something about religions. education is always better than ignorance.

and what ignorance does, i guess thats pretty obvious in todays world.
Mar 6 2012 5:15PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
This is actually not true.
Mar 6 2012 5:42PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
is is unconstitutional for a public school to endorse a religion. There can be discussion about religion, sure, but a public school can't favor one or try to indoctrinate its students into one.
Mar 6 2012 5:45PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I remember in 9th grade, we spent a week, so four hours of class studying Scientology, with four groups making essays and presentations to the class about different parts of it.

After everyone had gotten the whole picture, we watched an hour-long documentary about Scientology, and at the beginning of next week when we began studying Buddhism, the teacher asked us what we thought about Scientology.

Every single one said it was a load of horseshit and couldn't believe that people actually fell for it.

Later on with Buddhism, as the teacher asked us, most kids thought that it was a very accepting religion, focusing more on realizing change and adapting to modern beliefs while having a foothold in spirituality.

Teaching things about religion in schools is healthy.
Mar 6 2012 5:46PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
It is not unconstitutional for a public school to endorse a religion. It is unconstitutional for a public school to force or coerce students to either practice or not practice a religion.

The constitution says nothing about separation of church and state, one of the biggest misconceptions out there. It has however become a fairly widespread practice, and one which I approve of.
Mar 6 2012 5:49PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Well its healthy to open children up to a variety of world views, but our constitution prevents the indoctrination of children into one religious belief system. So in public school you can talk about religion but the public school can't say its a catholic institution or that it teaches catholic values.
Mar 6 2012 5:50PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
well by endorsing I meant promoting/indoctrinating. Sorry poor word choice.
Mar 6 2012 5:54PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Sorry for triple post but there is no doubt separation of church and state. Our founding fathers spoke tirelessly about. Virginia Statute for religious freedom, and the 1st. amendment are two examples.

Not to mention almost all of the most well known founders were extremely unreligious and many of them despised religion and thought it was a corrupting influence. The only mention of religion in the original constitution is "no religious test shall ever be required". So even if they didn't clearly state "separation of church and state" it is extremely obvious they set up a secular republic.

“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it”- J. Adams.
Mar 6 2012 6:00PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I'd like to offer the other point, I didn't grow up in schools when there was Islam, or any other big religion that demanded separate classes, as I guess there are now.

When I grew up, you were either Evangelic-Lutheran aka studying Religion, or you were unbaptized, from another religion or your parents demanded you not to study Religion.

This forced kids either to go out to play during a class, or go to... how would I translate this... Life Views Class.

During those classes, most of the kids were unbaptized and most of the things taught in those classes from as early on as 3rd Grade, was Philosophy, the meaning of life, the power of religion, and the power of man in relation to spirituality.

Pretty much everyone who I know that was in ET, or Elamankatsomustieto (Life View), is now smart as a motherfucker, with grounded views about religion and life itself.

I'm glad that I learned the things I did about religious history, but sometimes I wish I had been put in those classes as well...

Mar 6 2012 6:01PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Yeah it sounds like your school was really liberal and open minded. I go to private school in the states so and right now during my senior year we are required to take a course on philosophy from aristotle/aquinas to Kant/ Nietzsche. So its a really good mix that makes us all very open minded yet opinionated students.

At public schools in the states I'm pretty sure you could take a theology elective but nothing of the sort is required.
Mar 6 2012 6:21PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
All publics schools in here are open-minded and liberal.

You should check out the document "The Finland Phenomenon", focusing on our school structure. There are torrents out there.
Mar 6 2012 6:25PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
ill definitely check it out, thanks for the recommendation. I want to go to Finland soon. Its been too long since I've been in Europe.
Mar 6 2012 6:28PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
sue them for what? for making you open up your eyes to a different culture and way of life that is not represented properly in any media or sources you have access to?

My university had this last week. Although I did find it funny it was put on by about 80% females. It's weird they're putting on an awareness week for a religion that treats them as second class citizens. I honestly don't see why any Muslim or Jewish woman would would still embrace their religion after they leave a country like Saudi Arabia or Israel.

And yes, Jewish women in Israel have it almost as bad. There was a story on CBC not too long ago about a girl who moved to Israel from the US with her family. She was about 10, can't remember. She walked to school one day wearing jeans or some other clothing item that one wouldn't think twice about. She was harshly verbally berated and had stones thrown at her because she was a woman and wasn't supposed to wear that.
Mar 6 2012 6:39PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
also I realize the irony in my post
Mar 6 2012 6:39PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Never go full retard.
Mar 6 2012 11:17PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
true story. most of Israeli laws are still non-secular and so discrimination against woman is largely legal.
Mar 6 2012 11:32PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
hahaha, the problem is I am already aware of Islam to a greater degree than any of the brainwashed adherents of that retrograde faith. I'm not sure what awareness they could provide? Oh, you're a woman who likes wearing a ninja outfit? Thank you for making me aware of the fact that you're all crazy.

I kind of jumped to conclusions there, however, say in high school if I were forced to go to some kind of presentation put on for Muslim awareness day I would very much take issue with that. However, until I hear about such a thing I can't really say more. If they do it in some university building that no one will attend then whatever. If they really wanted to, they'd make everyone aware of the threat that radicalized Islam poses to everyone, rather than pulling the victim card all the time. When I see more of this, from more than 20 people, then maybe I'll change my tune.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/muslim_americans_rally_to_support_Z6SzAAB4AlDyLQqy9IAoVN




Mar 6 2012 11:40PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
oh boy. I see you're at that phase where you think you understand the world better than anyone else. That phase a lot of people enter in first year university along with a hipster mentality. Hope you grow out of it soon.
Mar 6 2012 11:49PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
This
Click for larger image

vs

Click for larger image
Mar 6 2012 11:51PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
the articles aren't hard to find

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57348852/israeli-girl-jeered-on-daily-walk-highlights-rift/


Judaism is not a nice religion to women. Neither are any others, but unfortunately a lot of them still take it very seriously. Not as bad as Islam, but much much worse than just about any present day Christians.
Mar 6 2012 11:55PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
actually read that whole article. you might learn something
Mar 6 2012 11:56PM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
hahahah now I'm a hipster? I'm pretty sure everything I've said is the antithesis of hipster mentality. Get your shit straight.

Does having my own life and my family's threatened by Islamic fanatics qualify for enough understanding? London, July 7th, 2005.

Don't tell me I don't know what I'm fucking talking about you schmuck.
Mar 6 2012 11:56PM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,695
so because you were threatened though the London train bombings by terrorists then you all of a sudden possess a greater knowledge of Islam than everyone who practices the religion? Also you're generalizing a quarter of the worlds population based on a few individuals.

You quite clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Mar 7 2012 12:04AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
I can't believe I'm still arguing with you

"Iran is 98% Islamic and Turkey is 96% Islamic. Pretty safe to say they're Arabic countries."

And that's all I have left to say to you.
Mar 7 2012 12:10AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
this
Mar 7 2012 12:11AM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
Well those "few" individuals who engage in bombings, rioting over cartoons and burned qurans, and other ridiculous behavior are never condemned by Imams or Arab political leaders. If they are representing Islam in such a terrible way then why aren't Muslims authorities coming out and denouncing this behavior?

Heres a good video that has to do with the topic.

Mar 7 2012 12:36AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
No, it's not.
Mar 7 2012 12:38AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
You dumbfucks really can't connect the dots. I'm saying that if supposed "normal" Muslims born in the UK can be radicalized to the point of blowing themselves, then any of them can. It's one thing to watch 9/11 and other terrorist attacks on a television screen, it's completely different to experience them in person.

You could never understand. To you it will always be some very small minority who don't represent the majority. Sure, but they're all affected by a disease to which any of them can succumb at any point in time. I'm saying the disease needs to be rooted out.
Mar 7 2012 12:41AM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
bandolero i refer you to my last post on the bottom of page 3. Its not just that. Its also that these "fringe" groups aren't being condemned by Imams and muslim authorities. In fact many major Islamic leaders endorse actions such as rioting over cartoons and sending death threats to Salman Rushdie.
Mar 7 2012 12:44AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Great video, it saddens me that Christopher Hitchens passed before his time. If more Brits stood up like him there wouldn't be an Islamic problem in England. The leftists in that country have invited in and appeased Muslims to a disgusting degree. Progressive immigration is a code word for cultural suicide.


And the video is exactly right. When was the last time you heard of a prominent Muslim religious leader calling Muslims out for their violent and hateful ways? No, it anything they are violent and hateful because of their religious leaders.

Apologies for the insult earlier. I'm not here to defend Christianity or Judaism, only to point out that the current-day followers of the former cannot be compared to adherents of Islam.



Mar 7 2012 1:05AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
wait who said these dudes were religous? maybe they are racist and hate white folks?


We have crazy tea-partiers, they have these nutjobs.

We have Ann Coulter. Im sure the have some lunatic cunt as well.

Mar 7 2012 1:13AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
I am confused. When has the tea party ever defaced or vandalized property, or disrespected the dead?
Mar 7 2012 1:14AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Fuck it, back to isolationsim IMO. The world wants our help? Pay us up front fuckfaces or deal with it yourself. I also vote to leave the UN, those baby blue wearing idiots are worthless.
Mar 7 2012 1:16AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Hmmm

As Cobra-Commander said, the Tea Party have only ever carried out peaceful protests that have always gone through legal means, they even pick up all their trash afterwards. Protesting against the intrusion of government and for lower taxes, and protests for theocratic domination, are miles apart.

In fact....

These fuckers have much more in common with the occupy wall street morons! One want the complete domination of Islam over the populace, the other the complete domination of government over the populace. Both cause wanton destruction, demonstrate a complete disregard for the law, and consist mainly of unemployed young people.


Mar 7 2012 1:36AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/immigration_extremists.htm

Im sure some of the above folks, associate themselves with the tea party. so therefore i can say taht tea partiers are violent, not to mention racist.
Mar 7 2012 1:46AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
I didn't see one mention of the Tea Party in that entire article. Your logic follows that if someone is racist and violent they automatically associate themselves with the tea party. However, you fail to show even the slightest evidence in support of your own supposed correlation. I hope you never plan on taking a logical reasoning class, you would fail before the first midterm.

I, on the other hand, do have proof that the occupy crowd are both violent and racist, and have the full support of racists like the one in your article.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/former-kkk-grand-wizard-david-duke-supports-occupy-wall-street-movement

Try again.

Mar 7 2012 1:59AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
So you can say that all christians are violent right? i mean atleast 50% of the protestors would claim christianity as their religon.
Mar 7 2012 2:08AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
What the hell are you even trying to say?

You claimed that angry Muslims can most accurately be compared to the Tea Party. I then countered with a more appropriate comparison to the occupy wall street crowd.

There is substantial evidence of violence and unlawful conduct by members of the occupy crowd, something that is also prevalent amongst Muslim fanatics. Both congregate illegally and vandalize public and private property.  Additionally, there is strong evidence that both are driven by a deep undercurrent of anti-semitism.

You have provided nothing but your own baseless opinion. Your only proof is a completely unrelated article about neo-nazis and KKK members being racist against Mexicans. In fact, the KKK sides with the occupiers, with the KKK's former grand wizard's endorsement as proof. You have no argument.


Mar 7 2012 2:30AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
everything i am saying flying over your head at the speed of sound apparently.
Mar 7 2012 2:35AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
For your sake I hope you're high or something.
Mar 7 2012 2:56AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Again with the "pay us".


You are such an important part of the puzzle.


Mar 7 2012 3:03AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
your critical thinking skills are not up to par with what i am guessing is a college student.

if you look back at my posts, put aside your intense desire to win any and all arguments, and actually try to infer what i was saying, you will see a very rational and logical point.

Mar 7 2012 3:10AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
I don't even think you know what you're trying to infer, because nothing you've posted is rational or logical.

Please, outline what you're trying to say and provide something, anything, to back it up. Try and make it longer than a couple of sentences.
Mar 7 2012 3:19AM
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