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Is the shop at fault for my heel-piece ripping out?

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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
well at the beginning of the season, i bought some armada AR7's and when i bought them, i had them mounted that week. when i brought them back in to get mounted with my FKS's, they never asked me where i wanted them on the form or just asking me at all. they set them 5 cm back from center and i wanted them set at 1.5 cm back from center. i was in a hurry when i dropped them off to get them mounted because i was going to get a haircut in a few min nearby and they kindly escorted me out and said it would be done when i get back. they had my # and email on the form on the ski when it went back to the shop. the tech took them back and the other 2 people in there walked us out. they claimed to have run out after we left because they never asked me where i wanted them mounted at. they proceeded to drill the holes and when i get back and pick them up i didnt really give them too much attention to exactly how far back they mounted them back. i got home and when i took them out of the car, i noticed that they seemed to be back unusually much. i measure the skis and find out they put them 5 cm back from center and i was pretty disappointed to see that on the form taped to my ski, the box that says where i wanted the skis mounted was blackened by pen. when i brought the skis back. they offered me a $100 gift card to compensate for the mis-mount and the $50 i payed for to get them mounted in the first place as well as a remount with the original holes being filled.
so i take the offer and just today, my ski popped of after landing switch on the handrail and when i picked the ski back up, the heel-piece shook against the ski. the back 2 screws had ripped out of the ski and i was mad because i knew this meant i would already have to go to my 3rd and final mount. so the shop tech at my mountain (different store) had taken the binding off and was pissed that someone would drill into a plug that that person had just made. when the tech at the store where i got these mounted plugged the holes drilled the new holes, he drilled into the new plugs that he just put in.
really want im wanting to know now is what to expect when i go into the shop tomorrow and ask whats the deal with this mount. i asked my friend at the mountain what drilling into or near a plugged hole does and i feel like the shop is at fault for doing that. he said that every shop tech should have the common sense to never do that and i should have new skies refunded to me because of there mistakes and what my dad says,"unprofessionalism" in the past few mounts dealing with them.
my friend at my mountain even told me straight up that he will not mount those skis anymore because of the amount of holes in the area where i want them mounted.
as pictures go the middle two holes are the stripped ones and the other 4 holes are just fine. the two plugged ones are in the back and the new holes are just fine up front as well.
Click for larger image
Click for larger image
+k for serious answers of what i should expect
-k for hate
Feb 19 2012 11:05PM
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_Jeffrey_
Posts: 1651 - Karma: 572
Well it sounds like you should have told them where you wanted them mounted. But it probably is the shops fault
Feb 19 2012 11:28PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
You cant mount a binding in a plugged hole, that is their fuck up.
Feb 19 2012 11:40PM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
consider putting helicoils into existing holes and you should be fine.
Feb 20 2012 5:50AM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
what exactly are helicoils? also to the first poster, i was just in a hurry and they told me to fill out a form with basic info like name, address, etc and he told me "just fill out the lightly shaded part of the form and ill do the rest for you." the mounting point box on the form had been in a darker part of the form and it just completely skipped my mind to read over the rest of the form myself but he picked the form up, taped it to the ski right away after i finished my part of the form and gave it to the tech and he walked in the back before anything would have crossed my mind.
Feb 20 2012 7:22AM
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ARMADAR7
Posts: 401 - Karma: 36
They definitly owe you new skiis, just be supper polite and let them know how badly they messed up, of its youre local shop and you are a reguler buyer let them know this and tell them how you will "bring youre buisness elswhere" and if they dont give you new skiis just never use that shop again, they dont loose any mony on a deel like that because of how marked up the products are so they should be reasonable, dont wast time with anyone but a manager or someone who has authority to give you new skis, the most important thing is to be polite, if you are calm and reasonable they will be calm, feel bad, and be reasonable
Feb 20 2012 8:37AM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
ok and my friend said that as well to be nice to them because i am a local. when i went to them about my previous mount getting fixed, they came off as an ass. they kind of just shrugged there shoulders and said "well what do you want me to do about this?" i said that as a business you guys are a team and when one person makes a mistake, you all take a blame as a team. also before that, they just seemed to be too friendly (if that is possible) instead of being a professional and doing the job right the first time.
i do go to that shop a lot during all seasons because they have things in there that are no where else local and it would be hard to take my business elsewhere but if need be. i guess i will be buying things from the internet more often ):
Feb 20 2012 8:54AM
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ARMADAR7
Posts: 401 - Karma: 36
If thats the situation then you should definitly get a full refund on the skis, i had boots improperly fit at my local shop and i got a refund on them after tottaly destroying them, depending on how old you are its probably a good idea to bring youre dad with you so that they take you nore seriously
Feb 20 2012 9:46AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
I would ask them to pay for new skis since yours are now useless
Feb 20 2012 9:48AM
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midwestpowhunter
Posts: 2198 - Karma: 189
OP what i dont understand is how in the world could you leave a brand new pair of skis in the hands of someone who is going to put holes into them without telling them where you want the holes located. no hair cut, funeral, wedding drs appt, date is worth not remembering that tiny piece of info that could have disasterous consequences. Secondly after the heel piece came out, why in the world wouldnt you immediately return to the original shop and be like strike two new pair of skis. I realize your freind found a huge flaw in their ability to mount correctly but they just basically bent you over and dildoed you with the cost of new ar7s! I would be pissed. Lastly the shop is pretty lame to take on the risks of mounting a pair of skis without knowing where the customer wants them drilled. They had ur number they couldve called you. So ya they messed up but the result is the same, ur skis are f'd and now you have to deal with it. Bottom line never trust people to make such important decisions. I know the tech at my shop and i still watch him mount my skis.
Feb 20 2012 9:54AM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
The reason I forgot that tiny peice of info is because I had never had a ski that I fully bought and bindings as well. I have never been asked where I wanted my skis mounted because my previous afterbangs were mounted center
Feb 20 2012 2:56PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
Stupid mobile. Because the afterbangs are meant to be mounted center and the shop tech at least knew to mount them center.
Feb 20 2012 3:02PM
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Twig
Posts: 6405 - Karma: 59,976
I would say they aren't really at fault for the first mount, since I believe -5cm is a marked mounting point on the skis.
That said, the second mount that close is ridiculous and they will almost certainly give you new skis. Thats a major mount fuckup!
Feb 20 2012 3:25PM
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StuckInOhio
Posts: 539 - Karma: 223
If you are nice they should have no problem resolving this issue. I have had similar and my shop has always been good to me if I am good to them. Granted it was an issue where they just didn't listen to what I wanted in the first place (mounted my chetlers on the recommended line when I asked specifically for the Team line, it was on the ticket), they talked to Atomic and got me a new pair of skis AND bindings to compensate, and they were able to sell my recently mis-mounted chets at a good price to some lucky guy. If they are dicks to you post it on here and inform the community, but by no means do that if you are just a dick back. Take this matter with a grain of salt, and yeah it stinks they messed that up and they should fix it, if not, well now you know to specify mounting position when you get bindings mounted, whether or not they ask you in the first place. Good luck, if they don't fix it find another good shop in your area and see if they can resolve the issue with some heli-coils, or even contact Armada!
Feb 20 2012 4:02PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
i know i messed up not telling them where i wanted them mounted. what i dont understand is why he still drilled into a plug. my friend told me that he WOULD get fired for something like that. shouldnt any shop tech know to never do that?
Feb 20 2012 6:09PM
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M.Freeman
Posts: 345 - Karma: 19
FUCK that store.. you go back there right now and demand (politely!!) them to give you a new pair of skis and you tell them to find real ski technicians that know what the hell they are doing.. SMFH, some people...
Feb 20 2012 6:26PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
The real question is: why wouldn't you just ski them at -5?

That is pretty damn close to center, and unless your skiing 100% park, and doing 720 rotations, and consistent 450 on/off, you DONT ever need a center mount.
Feb 21 2012 12:51AM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
Screw thread inserts, So they can take the old hole, drill it bigger, put the helicoil in then screw normally back into said hole.

It's great if you have had a rip out as long as the core has not split around the hole.

And normally not so expensive, and if it is the shops fault they should do it free, We only charge like 20 dollars for a full set of heli coils inc installation etc..
Feb 21 2012 6:10AM
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mvele
Posts: 101 - Karma: 12
Being a tech I can tell you that good techs will ask you where you want a twin mounted. That being said, if you don't say anything and the tech doesn't know better, it goes on the recommended line. That really is your fault, but the tech is an idiot for not asking if he had any prior twintip experience.
As far as drilling into plugs goes, that's their fault 100%. You should never drill even close to old holes and if you have to (the kid absolutely needs the bindings at a certain point), you use helicoils. It can actually be a very dangerous scenario and one that can lead to lawsuits......The tech is totally at fault for this. The shop is liable for his/her fuck up and a new pair of skis should be a given, as well as some major ass kissing.
Feb 21 2012 9:57AM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
they are lucky the binding simply ripped out and nothing serious happened to you.  i had a binding rip out from a bad mount and literally went head first into a lift tower.  needless to say they replaced my skis.
Feb 21 2012 12:32PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
other than 450on (working on it) i do all of those when im using them. ill be asking for an explination as to y they could mess things up like that. it seems like they had to be blind not to see there drilling into the plug. im hoping that i dont have to get helicoils because i dont think the shops will know how to insert them. Do they need a machine to put them in and are you guys sure it will hold into those holes?
Feb 21 2012 2:12PM
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MachChicken
Posts: 30 - Karma: 11
Bottom line is they owe you a new pair of skis!  If you look at those pics the two holes are touching! No competent ski tech would ever do this! Doesnt matter how poorly you communicated where they should mount them.... that is the very first thing a tech should do is check existing holes and be sure not to drill new ones too close.  3cm apart has always been my rule. Heli coils will do nothing to deal with those poorly placed holes.... dont even bother.  New skis period. polite but period.
Feb 21 2012 2:30PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
I totally agree, they should not have mounted through the holes they just plugged. You should take them back and say this:

I know you guys were great about the mount redo, and you are my go to shop for most everything, but... look at this. What can you guys do to fix it?
Feb 21 2012 2:38PM
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adamwhit8
Posts: 444 - Karma: 11
get what you deserve out of them. they screwed it up and like anything else, its not your fault, its a fault of the shop from how you explain it
Feb 21 2012 8:45PM
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based_kinGgod
Posts: 36 - Karma: 10
fks's heel pices have ben notorious for ripping out ever since the first relise back in the day
Feb 21 2012 9:57PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
perfect!!!!!!!
Feb 22 2012 7:18AM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
BUMP
Feb 22 2012 8:33PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
Bump? Did you take them in, what happened, etc.?
Feb 22 2012 9:41PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
no i cant take them in because my mom doesnt really care about my skis being messed up right now. im hoping that my dad can take me when i go to his house this weekend.
im bumping this thread so i can see if i can get some more shop tech answers so i can have a decent back-up for when i go in there.
Feb 22 2012 10:39PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7142 - Karma: 17,428
Really you have all the answers you will get. You should have said where you wanted them mounting the first time, but the tech was at fault for mounting too close to the old holes the second time.

Go to the shop with your mum or dad and see (politley) if they will do anything for you. By the sounds of it they may well help you out as they were cool about it the first time.
Feb 22 2012 10:48PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
ok. i will let you guys know what happens later this week
Feb 22 2012 10:52PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
ok so the owner was gone this weekend and he just got back and looked at my ski. he agree'd that they messed up and are offering me new skis. since the season is coming to an end, there is a smaller selection of available skis so he is offering me a pair of 176 volkl walls that are in the shop now and he said that he checked for thalls, ar7s, el rays and atomic punx witch i was looking to get earlier this season and they are all sold out from there retailer. i told him i would do some research on the walls and ask you guys what would be another good ski i could get.
so...should i settle with the walls or should i look into another pair of skis and if so, what should i be looking at? im kind of liking the non symmetrical ski but im not too familiar with symmetrical anyway.
let me know what you guy think will be a good choice.
Oh and THANKS for all your guys help on what i should expect and what i should do. +k to all
Feb 27 2012 5:02PM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
Walls are a solid ski, they rail on groomers, are good enough in the park.. and arent to shabby in choppy snow... It's not a bad "non fat" all rounder.

If they are the right height for you, go for them. They are better that el rays or punx for sure.
Feb 27 2012 5:09PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
ok well im really only looking for a solid park oriented ski because i have another ski for the mountain. also, are the walls pretty good on jumps and rails? are they heavy compared to the AR7's?
Feb 27 2012 5:19PM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
Dunno about rails, as i don't ride rails... But they are solid on jumps for sure...

Im really not a fan of how armadas ride, but it's like everything skis are so personal... If you can demo a pair before, do it.
Feb 27 2012 5:21PM
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Twig
Posts: 6405 - Karma: 59,976
I preferred the Wall for just about everything over the AR7. They might be a tad heavier but not enough that you would notice. Similar flex (slightly stiffer maybe) but the added bonus of a symmetrical shape.
If you just want a solid, no frills, regular camber park ski, I think the wall is pretty much the best.
Feb 27 2012 5:37PM
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djdiggidydave
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 555
welp... looks like ill be buying the walls then. look like its what i want and i can start riding park again right away. thanks man +k to you two as well
Feb 27 2012 7:02PM
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