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Black hole paradox?

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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
its conventional wisdom that a person falling into a black hole will fall through the event horizon of a supermassive black hole and feel that nothing has happened to him. seeing as the lifespan of black holes is finite approx 10^100 years  and for a person falling in to an enormous black hole whose tital forces
wont kill him as he nears the event horizon, and since he will be
infinitely old compared to the universe before he reaches the event
horizon, wont the black hole, due to hawking radiation/ black hole evaporation and eventual explosion, simply explode in his face once he gets very close to the event horizon?

note  as you near the event horizon, you near the speed of light, so if you were on the event horizon, your time will have stopped, while the rest of the universe continued forward in time, meaning the universe would have passed infinitely into the future by the time you reached the event horizon
Feb 17 2012 11:11AM
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alztar
Posts: 358 - Karma: 30
I like to think I am a clever person having done physics at a high level but...

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Feb 17 2012 11:12AM
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geezy_steezer
Posts: 70 - Karma: 37
this may be wrong but i am pretty sure that if you were falling directly into a blackhole, you would appear to an outside observer to just be staying still at the event horizon, but in reality you will have traveled straight through. i believe you would have to travel around the black hole, near the event horizon while somehow not being sucked in to get the effect you described
Feb 17 2012 11:16AM
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1337
Posts: 31064 - Karma: 29,404
actually you accelerate so fast that your body would be torn to shreds.

If you were falling feet first, you feet would start falling faster than your head, causing you to rip in half after being stretched.

There is a TED talk on it, but i'm too lazy to find it right now
Feb 17 2012 11:16AM
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GeneralT
Posts: 912 - Karma: 19
yo thats some real shit
Feb 17 2012 11:19AM
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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
yeah thats the convention wisdom that you would travel staight through. but to an outside observer you would be motionless near the event horizon due to time dialation special relativity etc. but spraling into the black hole and falling straight towards it will make no difference in the end
Feb 17 2012 11:34AM
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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
not the case in ultramassive black holes whose event horizons have the radius of the solar system.

either way, dead or alive, it from what i understand, the black hole will have exploded before any matter from your spagettified body reaches the event horizon
Feb 17 2012 11:42AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,121
That's an interesting question. So you are saying that because the time dilation would be near infinite at the event horizon that the black hole would vanish before you reached the singularity and you would be trillions of years in the future?

I get what you are trying to say but unfortunately have no idea the answer. I'm sure some people much smarter than us have though about it though.

Of course you would have to assume you could somehow survive all that radiation. Pretty sure all the light falling in would cook you pretty good!
Feb 17 2012 12:08PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
correct me if im wrong, but dont black holes compress and "crush" everything that goes inside them? So that would kill the person?
Feb 17 2012 12:59PM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 190
here come a bunch of kids who took high school physics and are arguing about how black holes work
Feb 17 2012 12:59PM
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fragglemuffin
Posts: 3312 - Karma: 443
This is what I thought too...they compress things infinitely smaller and smaller. (Blows my mind)
Feb 17 2012 1:54PM
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FerrisBueller
Posts: 8280 - Karma: 5,173
OP thinks they have an understanding of physics, astrophysics and the universe....
Feb 17 2012 1:58PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
we will never understand the universe.
Feb 17 2012 2:00PM
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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
yeah basically. but nothing from outside could cross the event horizon. at the event horizon according to you, the universe would be flying through its existence at nearly infinite speed. and because black holes have a non infinite life expectancy, they would evaporate and eventually explode due to hawking radiation.
inside the event horizon, physics breaks down. otherwise you would have consider things inside the event horizon as being older than infinite time, which is rediculously parodoxical
Feb 17 2012 2:09PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 443
im inclined to agree with this but that op was a mind fuck so who knows. I love this shit wheres the vap..
Feb 17 2012 2:09PM
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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
what? enlighten me then einstein.
Feb 17 2012 8:32PM
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MFM
Posts: 842 - Karma: 77
Maybe stop stumbling around in space like a retard and keep your ass out of black holes. X= don't be a space fuck falling into black holes and such.
Feb 17 2012 8:44PM
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soulskier
Posts: 17806 - Karma: 3,841
conventional knowledge, eh?
Feb 17 2012 8:49PM
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J.M
Posts: 2854 - Karma: 254
yes. their gravitational pull is so great, nothing can escape it.
Feb 17 2012 8:53PM
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Kcin
Posts: 1845 - Karma: 58
If you ejaculated into the black hole would it get pregnant?
Feb 17 2012 8:57PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 461
DIDN'T READ LOL
Feb 17 2012 9:00PM
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J.M
Posts: 2854 - Karma: 254
also,

if you put a mattress in a black hole, does it still take a crane to get it out?
Feb 17 2012 9:07PM
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[evan]
Posts: 5628 - Karma: 117
The only way to truly know is to experience it for yourself.

OP you're going in first.
Feb 17 2012 9:09PM
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dmc12380
Posts: 3548 - Karma: 797
Read Black Holes and Time Warps by Kip Thorne

Itll give you some understanding
Feb 17 2012 9:24PM
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CheddarJack
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 7,380
Yeah like previously mentioned kind of, there's no way you'd be able to survive. Your body literally would stretch out so thin that it would not be visible to the human eye and eventually be a straight line of atoms. Fascinating huh? I love thinking about black holes and how they bend time because time is physical. If only human's brains were powerful enough to comprehend the universe...
Feb 18 2012 10:33AM
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Trawltopilot
Posts: 545 - Karma: 95
einsteins was. but yeah basically our belief in whats real is a result of what we see in everyday life. since we dont ride the schoolbus with black holes everyday our brains model of reality is very shallow
Feb 18 2012 12:48PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
no oxygen in space + human = dead before getting near black hole = argument invalid
Feb 18 2012 12:55PM
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the~muffin~man
Posts: 364 - Karma: 76
at first i thought no, but now i have to pay child support...
Feb 18 2012 1:03PM
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FerrisBueller
Posts: 8280 - Karma: 5,173
no the fact of extreme temperatures and zero pressure might make a human body vaporize
Feb 18 2012 9:10PM
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TallerThanThou
Posts: 615 - Karma: 13
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Feb 18 2012 9:12PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
exactly. and the whole "someone watching would see you not moving at the event horizon" thing. if you were close enough to see you'd be in the black hole too.
Feb 18 2012 9:20PM
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sowstochd
Posts: 1518 - Karma: 59
HOW time dilation affects the experience of spacecraft and people themselves when they are close enough to feel the effects of a black hole. The flaw in this is that we are only able to concieve time as a human experience, for EX: if you space out during class, or unknowingly succomb to daydreaming, we almost experience a world that is not totally objective, but constructed by interpretations,but fits all of the subjective and emotional criteria to be significant to us. It is a matter of measurement that we cannot break down time that much, i mean think about it, to the point at which gravity overtakes the speed of light, light is a theory itself that we apply to everything, but what happens when it approaches these extremes for which we have no basis of any understanding? At that point, we would never be able to tell one form of matter to the next, there is even evidence that speculates that what we perceive as cause and effect has been altered by the sheer mystery of the violent universe.

**As a humble concession, this was not meant to be a scholarly attempt so much as it was meant to be a simple montage of how I think the true answers of the universe as a whole are totally beyond reach right now. We only work off of what we test, and the frontier of space is never ending.

all of the parts we interpret are a strive to feel the true essence, but the struggle is enough.

im high
Feb 19 2012 6:29AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13150 - Karma: 19,453
This remind me of this riddle:
Alice and Bob, 2 astronauts visit a black hole. Alice decides to jump in a suit and find out whats on the other side. As Alice approaches the black hole, she gets crushed and dies. But in Bob's view, Alice never crossed the horizon, she is frozen into time. So, is she dead, as her atoms converted to energy or is she frozen in time, trapped forever?

But, here are some facts about black holes:
-Black holes are small, the small ones are around 2-3 miles in diameter. Supermassif black hole are between one and two times our solar system.
-Matter swerling around the supermassif back hole on the outer edge of the galaxies are not affected by the back hole...they are too far from the center, but still orbit the center. In fact, the stars move all move the exact same speed, no matter where you are in the galaxy!
-Time does not stop in a event horizon. Its an inverse exponential function. Time will run infinitely slow, but never stop.
-You can see a black hole as a gravitational well. It is a deep well in the space time fabric. An elongation of the 4th dimension. Matter follows the fabric and gains momentum when it gets caught up in a gravitation field.
-Lenard Suskin (sp?) proved that information cannot vanish into a black hole. He demonstrated that matter is simply converted to a different form. In other words, nothing crosses the event horizon.
Feb 19 2012 7:59AM
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Lansfield
Posts: 2708 - Karma: 321
Fucking blackholes
Feb 19 2012 12:43PM
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.Capn.
Posts: 1454 - Karma: 152
All of this both happens and doesn't happen
Feb 19 2012 1:18PM
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Dunnah
Posts: 1215 - Karma: 277

Feb 19 2012 2:27PM
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ARMADAR7
Posts: 401 - Karma: 36
The technichal term for what happens to an object when it gets streched out as a result of passing through a black hole is spagettified
Feb 19 2012 2:43PM
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JASTEW206
Posts: 568 - Karma: 117
Yes, Time is relative if thats what you mean by physical. Most people dont think this way, they only think of time as linear because that's the only way the have seen.
Feb 19 2012 3:45PM
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SpaghettiWizard
Posts: 2825 - Karma: 166
A walking paradox!
Feb 19 2012 3:48PM
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