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Help please Backcounty skis?..East Coast skier moveing out to colorado .

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lupin07
Posts: 5 - Karma: 10
I need a new pair of skis, grew up on the east coast and i am tired of small resorts and no snow. Looking to get in to some sweet back country out west but unsure of what i should get for skis, I am 22 years old  205 lbs and 6'2". Currently riding rossi scratches that are way too small, and just looking for some advice before i buy anything. Was considering Sir Francis Bacons  184s..
Feb 16 2012 11:58AM
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uncski
Posts: 101 - Karma: 39
184 might even be too small for you. I ride 185 JJs at 6'2" 170 and they feel small. Girls like bigger sticks anyway.
Feb 16 2012 1:17PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
I ride 191 ON3P caylors and they are the shit, so stable and speed yet  playful. You can charge or get jibbidy on them your choice
Feb 16 2012 1:27PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Assuming you actually mean skiing the backcountry (away from the resorts) and not just a way for kids to call the back bowls at Vail something it isn't.... I'll inject some knowledge....



First, before you kill yourself or someone else, please buy AND wear all the appropriate gear (beacon, shovel, probe, 1st aid kit, etc.) and take an avy 1 class. Depending on where you live, there should be free classes available.

As for skis, you don't want anything too long since you'll be skiing trees more than you think and less big open terrain. At your height/weight, I would be looking at something around 186-190 fully rockered, or something 184-188 with a flat tail and tip rocker.

Regarding camber, it's skier-dependent. Personally, I prefer a slight amount of camber underfoot since you won't always be skiing powder and will sometimes find yourself skiing shitty conditions.

You'll want the flex to be middle of the road. Too stiff and you won't have any fun in deeper snow. Too soft, and you'll legs will feel like nails driving into them when conditions aren't ideal.

And as for ideal shape, something 110-120mm underfoot. Anything wider, and it's just unnecessary weight (you have to take that into consideration). Anything skinnier, and well... you may as well be at a resort.
Feb 16 2012 1:31PM
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YewTard
Posts: 619 - Karma: 196

SFBs are great skis, but you might want to look into something a little more pow-oriented.... after all, the whole purpose of busting your tail skinning up the mountain is so you can ski deep pow on the way down.

That said... are you talking real backcountry, or exiting the gates at a resort into Slackcountry? Are you concerned about weight on the way up, or do you not care and want full alpine performance on the way down?

If you're looking to really get into it, get your Avy 1, etc and do longer tours then you'd be looking at getting a light ski like a DPS, Praxis, etc and mounting with Dynafits, Plums, and the like. If you are going this route, keep in mind you can't be skiing these consistently at the resort or you'll have issues with the bindings as they aren't meant to take the abuse/torque of in bounds bumps/crud.

I don't do extremely long tours (there aren't really that many in the Wasatch anyway) and want alpine performance when I'm going down, plus I ski my setup in bounds through junk snow pretty often, so I'm on Armada TSTs with Marker Dukes. Heavier setup, but can handle anything you throw at em.

And just as important as the skis... if you're leaving the gates, please get a good beacon/shovel/probe and take classes so you know how to use em. Lot of deaths in the BC these days, especially this season.

Feb 16 2012 1:31PM
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lupin07
Posts: 5 - Karma: 10
Thanks guys, Like i said right now I live on the east coast in New Hampshire, So I have been skiing what you would call side country back gates at stow and jay peak etc, and iv been snowshoeing and hiking allover the northeast mainly  the Whites and done Mt Washington/Tucks a couple times, i have a pretty strong backpacking background and would like to make my way to real backcountry by skinning, so a little more work to earn some turns is alright  by me weight wise. And I WILL TAKE ALL THE APPROPRIATE STEPS before heading out in to the backcounrty. If your gonna do something it should be done right. I would also like to mess around in the sidecountry and a resort from time to time. and i would like to spend no more then 650 on just skis
Feb 16 2012 1:51PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
With that said, I would first choose which binding you plan on using. Barons/Dukes can be had used for less than $250 but weigh 5.6 lbs. Because their patent ran out, Dynafits can be had used for less than $350. If you plan on doing less than 3k vert in a day, go with Dukes/Barons. If you plan on doing more, go Dynafit and similar. But this option often means buying a new boot that is Dynafit compatible. I'll go assume you plan on using Barons/Dukes.

With that said, you'll want a ski that's around 9 lbs or less if possible. DPS does make some of the lightest, high performance wide skis out there, but you'll be paying a hefty coin for them (plus, they're made in China... I like to support companies that are homegrown). Check out the ON3P Jeffrey or 186 Billy Goat. Also consider the 182/187 Jaguar Shark or 184 Bibby Pro from Moment Skis.




Here are some edits skiing steep technical terrain on the Jag Shark last season:





Feb 16 2012 2:04PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,274
good, i like it, just make sure you're careful out there and that you go with somebody who knows the terrain. colorado snow is much less stable than maritime snowpacks and CO has some of the most avy related deaths per year. even if you know a lot about snow science and stability, knowing the terrain is a huge component in traveling safely

as for skis i recommend something around 115 underfoot with dukes, that way you can use it as a resort pow ski as well as a bc ski for short jaunts. if you want a backcountry specific ski, then get something more like 105 underfoot with dynafits on it

i've been very happy with my on3p billy goats with dukes as a sidecountry setup, but also look into on3p caylors, jj's, bibby's, or skis of that nature. you want something a longer than 185 though, especially if you're buying a ski that skis so short like the bacons or jj's. youre a big dude, you need a big ski
Feb 16 2012 2:05PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Meant to include this one instead of the last (that was the worst conditions ever... 3-4" of fresh on top of ice).

http://vimeo.com/20232112
Feb 16 2012 2:06PM
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YewTard
Posts: 619 - Karma: 196

Pretty solid advice all around here. Colorado definitely has problems with their faceted snowpack. I just got my Avy 1 cert in Utah and that class completely changed the way I think when I'm in the backcountry... worth every penny I paid for it.

For your first touring setup I'd stick with something like a Baron/Duke... as others have mentioned going the Dynafit route is extremely expensive and requires a specific touring boot (which is also very expensive). Plus the versatility of Barons/Dukes means you can ski em in-bounds too.

I'm running Black Diamond Ascension skins and love em... zero issues thus far, just take care of them/let them dry at night. BCA Tracker Beacon is very simple to use (though they have a Tracker 2 out now which im sure is even better). Maybe getting too in depth here, but when you're getting your shovel go for one that has a relatively flat back to it so you can cut cleaner walls when you're digging pits.

I've never skied ON3Ps but they seem to get great reviews from everybody. I give my TSTs two thumbs up for touring- has the fat JJ tip rocker up front for float in pow, slims to 104 underfoot so you can carve if the terrain gets a little harder/icy, and no tail rocker means more grip going up steeper skin tracks. Don't know if you're looking to buy this winter or next, but next year 4FRNT introduces the HOJI which was designed with touring in mind- 114 underfoot (I think) and very light.

Feb 16 2012 2:28PM
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spinks
Posts: 1426 - Karma: 129
Liberty Morphic 181. This ski is designed to go anywhere in Colorado. It is fat enough for powder, stiff enough for high speeds, flex in the right places for park, and of course the Bamboo core is light and strong. The Morphic is the ideal ski for riding the resort and anywhere else.
Feb 16 2012 3:31PM
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kvan
Posts: 3085 - Karma: 1,225
To be honest theres not much pow out there right now so I would hold off and buy them next year (considering the snowfall amounts will be acceptionally higher than this year).
Feb 16 2012 7:03PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 443
Threads for being in the exact same situation. Good looks op lol. Can someone tell me how they liked their on3p's I forget the name but the fat sticks. + k to whoever
Feb 16 2012 7:43PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 443
Figures its the second post I didn't read. Do thy make those around a 184?
Feb 16 2012 7:47PM
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rudager
Posts: 11336 - Karma: 4,640
Too short.
184 is too short
Anything rockered under 188 is too short.
You're a bigger guy. That being said, if you want to get into bigger terrain, length is your friend. Nothing is worse than having really short and squirrelly skis when you're skiing in deep powder, or charging a steep line.
In the trees, I'm able to manage and ski in the tight trees on my 194 New Lifes. However, if you're looking into just getting into this stuff, maybe look in the 189-191 range.

For powder and big mountain

194 Surface New Lifes
191 Surface Live Lifes
191 ON3P Caylors
191 ON3P Billy Goats
193 Atomic Benchetler
193 Atomic Automatic (12/13)
190 Moment Bibby Pro
192 Moment Jaguar Sharks
193 Volkl Shiro
Feb 16 2012 8:02PM
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rudager
Posts: 11336 - Karma: 4,640
I also want to suggest
187 4FRNT YLE
188 4FRNT CRJ


Feb 16 2012 8:29PM
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ace_
Posts: 3189 - Karma: 39
189 obsethed, 186 115 prophet (you'd love this ski it's fucking gnarly) bibby's may suit you well, that ski is way fun too. check out the dynstar lp105 or 115. awesome skis. There are so damn many skis out there that are dialed that its hard to find the right one for your type of skiing. I'd demo as much as possible before thinking about buying paper specs.

Fuck the JJ and benchetler, 5dim skis suck asswad.

also i'd ski the resorts for a season before venturing into the sidecountry. you'll be amazing what all you can find from under a chairlift.
Feb 16 2012 10:32PM
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NWlife.
Posts: 179 - Karma: 14
192 Atomic Bentchetler. i dont think there is a better ski on the market right now for the deepest pow days, and can rail groomers harder than any other pow ski. it is stiff and nimble and can turn on a dime. it is perfect for what you will be skiing.
Feb 16 2012 10:50PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
Just cause at this present time you are not capable of or have the knowledge of longer tours doesn't mean they aren't in the wasatch. Your ignorance speaks to your inexperience.
Avvy 1 while not a bad start is such a small drop in the bucket. and basically tells you enough to be dangereous there are also thousands of experienced bc skiers who never paid for a cert, that know more than you ever will by getting certified.
There are also many ways of making a pit wall flat and I'm not sure where your goin there. it's whats in the pit that matters not the exactness of the walll.
It's also not what you find in the pit that may kick your ass it's what you don't
Don't put to much stock in any pit results after a while you will realize the huge spatial varibilites that
exist on any given slope.
I can almost guaranty you will need/use 1st aid skills in a non avalaunche bc scenario before the latter do not neglect these skills
Only difference between side or slack country and true backcountry is the ease of getting there and the response time of als
both can kill you just as fast.
if you havent ever toured on anything but tst and dukes and bd ascencions how do you know much about other options?
as far as skis
carbon fiber= light carbon fiber also = $$$$$$$
same with plums/dynas. and compatible boots
the mountains and snowpack do not care how much experience or what certs you have.
best tool you can have is solid partners
best way to find em is to be one




Feb 17 2012 12:13PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
SFB dropping science like Galileo dropped an orange.

One of the more amazing things about snow is the ability to use a multitude of tests to assess the dangers in a quickly yet not rushed manner. Often, people rely on pits which doesn't tell you how the snow will react to pressure. They are good at understanding the different layers that lie beneath, but the ECT and the Rutschblock test give a better idea of how fragile or stable the snowpack is.

http://www.fsavalanche.org/Default.aspx?ContentId=23&LinkId=28&ParentLinkId=3

http://straightchuter.com/2009/01/the-extended-column-test-ect/
Feb 17 2012 12:46PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
The ect is the best way of knowing of much pressure it is going to take to make that snow slide IMO. Just make sure you be careful. Read the Caic info daily. And always have someone you trust with your life with you. The death toll rose to 6 yesterday in CO. If your skiing out of bounds make sure you be careful and smart!
Feb 17 2012 1:02PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,274
exactly. compression tests and pits tell you about the layers so you can learn about the snowpack but they don't tell you how stable it is. if your column doesn't break until 27 hits it doesn't mean you can go ski anything, it just means that there probably isn't as weak a layer in that specific spot of that specific aspect.

snow is crazy shit and it changes so rapidly and so easily that there's really no way to properly assess its stability without conducting tons of tests and doing a lot of planning and research before heading out in the backcountry. that's why reading a bulletin is so helpful since they have more resources than you do, so if their 5 pits on 5 different peaks at 5 different aspects all show a persistent weak layer, it's different from you digging a pit on one aspect, finding a weak layer, and then skiing the opposite aspect assuming it's gone

rutschblock tests are fun to do and help show how the snow reacts to pressure, but, like any test, you can't make too many conclusions from one of them. the best way to learn is by doing tons of different formal and informal tests, anywhere from sticking your pole handle in the snow to digging a mitt pit to digging and actual pit and recording your data. you can never do too many tests, the balance is simply how many you can fit in while making sure your expedition isn't completely tedious
Feb 18 2012 2:11AM
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