Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Any non-Americans Support Capital Punishment?

profile picture
skithecanada
Posts: 638 - Karma: 56
Looking at the debate in the thread about that girl getting life in prison it seems to me that no one on NS besides americans actually support capital punishment.

Please NS prove me wrong and find me some non american people who support capital punishment!
Feb 9 2012 2:59PM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Exactly. The Finnish penal system for one is built around reform and exactly that, not punishment for crimes per se.
Feb 10 2012 1:09PM
0 0
profile picture
blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
I'm only comparing states in the US that have the death penalty to those that don't. Even within the same country the difference in crime rates between areas with and without capitol punishment is substantial. And comparing crime rates cross-nationally is not meaningless, what is to say that successful policies in one country may not be applicable in another? The lazy doctrine of cultural relativism is no longer accepted as an excuse to dismiss transcultural phenomena, there is a certain sociological logic that underlies social life, how it is expressed is contextually dependant, yet the underlying mechanisms are constant.



Either way I'm over it.
Feb 10 2012 1:15PM
0 0
profile picture
mightyboosh
Posts: 171 - Karma: 30
I agree with the first part of your post for sure - there has to be a ceiling on costs for anything that is state/government funded. I was really just trying to ask a few rhetorical questions on that topic.

However, the part about cost being a reasonable basis to say 'we are not willing to keep you alive' i disagree on. In this situation, the more important question is firstly 'are we keeping this person alive or putting them to death?' and then it is 'how will we do this/pay for this etc. ?' The most important moral question is clearly the first one, so if the answer to that is 'yes, the moral decision of the justice system means the person will be kept alive', then this can't just be changed because of difficulties posed by the second question.

does that make sense as a response to your point? There is no doubt that cost is important in these situations, but the more important moral decision (life/death) must be given priority, hence why cost difficulties can never be a gooed enough reason to backtrack and change someones standing on capital punishment for instance.
Feb 10 2012 1:25PM
0 0
profile picture
J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
This makes perfect sense. I just don't agree with it. In my view there is nothing inherently sanctified about the existence of life that makes it less moral to take away someone's life than to permanently take away their freedom by locking them in a jail cell. I can't come up with any basis on which to make that point. Both are undesirable outcomes and the degree to which one is more or less desirable will vary from person to person - so there has to be a reason to say that one is okay and one is not. I do not see that there is any such reason.
Feb 10 2012 1:42PM
0 0
profile picture
J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
This assertion is incredibly vague, so much so that I can't find any coherent meaning in it.
Feb 10 2012 1:46PM
0 0
profile picture
Smuffy
Posts: 4686 - Karma: 3,408
i cant tell if youre smart or just trying to confuse me by using big words
Feb 10 2012 5:11PM
0 0
profile picture
BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Does the refrigerator come stocked with alcohol?
Feb 10 2012 5:33PM
0 0
profile picture
PlaygroundRapist
Posts: 1307 - Karma: 26
No idea but they do get:

Murals and plants:

Click for larger image

A well kept football field:

Click for larger image

Relax hall with table football and relax couches:

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

An Indoor Basketball court:

Click for larger image


And much much more.

Feb 10 2012 6:04PM
0 0
profile picture
blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
I've refuted your points, whereas you continue to nitpick the semantics. If you're unable to glean any meaning from my post that's none of my concern.

The death penalty is not a deterrent for crime, all evidence points to the contrary. States without the death penalty have consistently lower murder rates than states that with it. Whether you think capital punishment cannot be responsible for increasing murder rates is irrelevant.

Feb 10 2012 6:10PM
0 0
profile picture
PlaygroundRapist
Posts: 1307 - Karma: 26
Pretty much, but make sure you make a severe enough crime. We punish very gingerly so you might end up removing weeds from a berm.
Feb 11 2012 4:47AM
0 0
profile picture
blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
An example of what I mentioned in my first post, capitol punishment allows for things like this to happen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Garrett
Feb 11 2012 12:43PM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Ugh, fucked up stuff.
Feb 11 2012 12:55PM
0 0
profile picture
Smuffy
Posts: 4686 - Karma: 3,408
If for no other reason, this is why I feel like Capitol Punishment should not exist. As Biggie said, "I would never wish death on nobody, there ain't no comin back from that."
There is coming back from jail

Also that dude went out like a boss

Garrett's last words were "I'd like to thank my family for loving me and taking care of me. And the rest of the world can kiss my everloving ass, because I'm innocent."
Feb 11 2012 1:02PM
0 0
profile picture
markrl
Posts: 30 - Karma: 10
I'm Aussie, and kinda support it. It's all good if they're guilty, I'd actually prefer to be sentenced to death than life in prison if i was guilty of something, but the problem is in cases where they are innocent, and it is only found out many years later...
Feb 11 2012 4:00PM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Duh?
Feb 11 2012 4:31PM
0 0
profile picture
feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
you dont burn the house of an arsonist
you dont steal from a thief
you dont rape a rapist

so why murder a murderer?

there is really no logic behind where to start with eye-for-an-eye and where to stop.


the state punishes various crimes with always the same methods: money and jailtime. i dont see the reasoning behind murder being an exclusive crime in this regard.
Feb 11 2012 5:05PM
0 0
profile picture
PlaygroundRapist
Posts: 1307 - Karma: 26
Because Canada adopted this:

Click for larger image
Feb 11 2012 6:07PM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
If I would come over there and we would have a hearty set of fisticuffs, followed by an arrest by the glorious Mounties, what would you offer to me, a tourist or an immigrant in this case:

a) laboring in the secret Gulags down Barrow River Gorge

b) slaving away at the Russo-Asian pipeline in the Wooknucggas

c) pooping in my private cell as I've claimed I was in danger of losing my life in Vancouver DT

Feb 11 2012 6:53PM
0 0
profile picture
Bateman
Posts: 8591 - Karma: 8,600
boots with the fur
Feb 11 2012 7:01PM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
D-d-d-d-d-DON'T TASE ME BRO!


But for me, it's deffo a tie between open prisoons and gulags. Both are the most efficient in getting shit done.
Feb 11 2012 7:05PM
0 0
profile picture
las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
No, its barbaric. Just another thing that hinders humanities social and moral progress.
Feb 11 2012 7:47PM
0 0
profile picture
sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Sigh.. That's such a simpleton's prospective. Obvious not only murder should be singled out. Violent sex offenses. Multiple convictions on violent crimes at different parts of life, torture or violence for fun, treason etc
Feb 11 2012 7:55PM
0 0
profile picture
maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
they found an old hunting rifle with a dildo bayonet in that guys house, I am pretty sure capitol punishment would not involve dildo bayonet or shoving him into a meat grinder and feeding his entrails to pigs. there is no reason for that sick fuck to be kept alive.
Feb 11 2012 9:27PM
0 0
profile picture
feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
"treason"? what the fuck dude, the 19th century called, it wants its crime back.

the "simpletons" perspective is the one asking for the death of someone just for revenges sake or for financial reasons.

Feb 12 2012 11:12AM
0 0
profile picture
jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
I'm American but I don't support it at all
Feb 12 2012 11:22AM
0 0
profile picture
Smuffy
Posts: 4686 - Karma: 3,408
this made me laugh so hard for some reason
Feb 12 2012 5:46PM
0 0
profile picture
sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
So we are to modern to punish traitors what a half brained liberal fantasy that could only be concocted by one who has been protected indefinitely by their nations intel. agencies and military for their whole life and is incapable of accepting there are really existential threats in this world... you probably also believe its freedom of expression/ speech too aid terrorists with money or information? What the hell dude. If your life was on the line you sure as hell would feel different
Feb 12 2012 6:00PM
0 0
profile picture
sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Should of said one who has the luxury of being indefinitely protected... It really is nuts how much our inherent safety is making younger generations complacent
Feb 12 2012 6:02PM
0 0
profile picture
Gorilla.Steeze
Posts: 2215 - Karma: 43
I am against it mainly because of how hypocritical it is. A form of punishment for committing murder is killing them as well. That will surely show them our moral superiority....

There is a reason why Hammurabi Code is not part of our Constitution. It is barbaric.
Feb 12 2012 6:15PM
0 0
profile picture
Smuffy
Posts: 4686 - Karma: 3,408
You sound like one of those people who thinks we should have guns to protect ourselves from the government... But if you use your guns against the government that's treason!

who's in the right?
Feb 12 2012 6:15PM
0 0
profile picture
feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
lets just say that especially in protecting austrian soil, the military sucks horseshit. dont ever get me started on the intelligence although i am a firm believer that an intelligence is only good when you never hear about it.

there are so little "existential threats", its not even funny. half brained right winged fantasy if you think they are worth of running your country into bankruptcy
Feb 13 2012 1:10AM
0 0
profile picture
Gorilla.Steeze
Posts: 2215 - Karma: 43
This has become the platform for both of the major parties at least here in the US. Anti-war and non-interventionist policies are comical to the vast majority of politicians and civilian drones alike.
Feb 13 2012 6:49PM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-5)