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KilaTsunami
October, 2024

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HEY EVERYONE WAKE THE FUCK UP.

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Poundtown
Posts: 519 - Karma: 305
Apathetic; is the perfect word to describe the significant majority of civilization on earth. Take a look at this video, it makes me sick that I live with people like this.


Jan 15 2012 3:55AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Ever heard of respect? I looked into that thread and the responses I saw baffled. What I think Anathema is getting at is, how can you people have no respect for a human being, but have respect for a shark, when you still eat butchered meat. To me, it doesn't add up. I won't preach it, but people should have respect for every living being, and that can go double to our own species.
Jan 15 2012 3:19PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Living or dead
Jan 15 2012 3:20PM
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Nurgle
Posts: 1249 - Karma: 15
Biocenterism
Jan 15 2012 3:22PM
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Pool.
Posts: 2820 - Karma: 662
never said that wasnt a concern for me either, i just didnt include it in that post, and because we were on the topic of asain countries that was the first other example that came to mind
Jan 15 2012 3:25PM
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DW.
Posts: 2683 - Karma: 74
I think that's legit, you should have respect for every living thing, but I don't think that humans should be put on such a huge pedestal. You're probably correct in thinking that we should be more concerned with our own issues than other species, when you compare some fucked up soldiers peeing on dead bodies, and the ridiculous, incredibly cruel slaughter of endangered species for the sake of wealthy fucking asians wanting to show off their wealth, I think it's clear which is the bigger issue.

As I stated before, pissing on dead bodies is in no way right, it's pretty horrible, but I don't think the two subjects can really be compared.

That's just my opinion anywho
Jan 15 2012 3:26PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
In my opinion it's a lot bigger than "just a fish". I'm not talking about animal rights, I'm talking about the sustainability of the environment. Killing sharks is bad because they'll eventually go extinct. If they were farmed in giant tanks for the purpose of being killed and eaten it would be different, but the whole fishing industry causes damage to the ecosystem that can't be repaired.

Killing things is natural. Nobody says the cheetah is "inhumane" when it violently and painfully kills the gazelle. People who are vegetarian because they "feel bad" for the animals being killed a fucking idiots. As you said, a lot of the time people care more about the poor little dog than the homeless man, people with terminal illness, and people subject to domestic violence or genocide. I swear that some people honestly believe that dog fighting is worse than the Holocaust. PETA is a bunch of bullshit.

I honestly don't give a FUCK about how many sharks are killed as long as it doesn't irreversibly harm the environment.
Jan 15 2012 3:27PM
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Nurgle
Posts: 1249 - Karma: 15
Be careful about what you throw around.

Im vegetarian for multitude of reasons including, enviromental, health and animal rights.

And if we focused on the natural cycle, we wouldnt harvest animals.
Jan 15 2012 3:30PM
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trettzilla
Posts: 931 - Karma: 29
im just going to go out on a limb and say that the entire commercial fishing industry is fucked up. this doesnt only happen with sharks
Jan 15 2012 3:31PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061

exactly. it's about consistency. if youre going to be compassionate when it comes to fish, be at LEAST equally compassionate toward human beings.

this is the kind of shit that makes me scratch and shake my head. so much "nooo, dont torture the sharks, dog fighting is the worst thing on the planet, lab mice feel pain too" etc etc, and then when it comes to humans people dont give a fuck. oh well, innocent people getting slaughtered by the hundreds in "wars on terrorism" by american troops, fallen enemies getting pissed on, people fired from work and having their homes repossessed so some corporate scumbag can cut costs and turn a bit more of a profit, sick people dying because they can't get medical treatment when you have celebrities wearing millions of dollars worth of jewelry, third world countries dying of famine when we throw half our meals in the garbage because we're too full or it doesn't taste perfect.. no big deal though, lets save the animals and protect their interests.. such a fucked up world we live in.

Jan 15 2012 3:32PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
No I completely understand people choosing to be vegetarian for the sake of the environment and their own health, but I can't stand it when people do it JUST because they feel bad Wilbur the Pig being eaten.

I'm not really sure about what you mean by "the natural cycle", but some form of agriculture is necessary. The world's demand for food is too great for it all to be grown naturally. People like meat, and if that meat isn't raised to be eaten then you run into a ton of problems like extinction etc.
Jan 15 2012 3:34PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
but i'm sorry, i dont mean to derail this thread at all. there are a lot of fucked up things that go on. this is definitely one of them, and i totally agree with what ramsay is doing. i have a lot of respect for people who try to be a part of the solution rather than just complain about the problem.
Jan 15 2012 3:35PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
To MACAQUE, nobody cares about a cheetah killing a gazelle, they do it to survive, and that's the way it's been for a long time. With humans, we overdo it. It's a thing about eating delicacies, gluttonous consumption, and our wasteful ways. If we were to farm sharks, it'll still be a massive waste. The market only wants the fins, that is what pisses me off, just like it pisses a ton of other people off. People are catching the sharks, and definning then while they're still alive. Then just throwing them back in the ocean to die. It's disgusting that it's such a waste. I hate wasting food. I'm on the verge of going from a pescetarian to a vegetarian. People make me sick. Shark hunting for the fins should stop. It's disgusting and wasteful. I'm no lover of PETA, or any of those groups really, some are just radicals. If you're going to kill something to survive, have respect for it, don't waste it
Jan 15 2012 3:41PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
WE eat and farm plants AND animals to survive and it's also been like that for THOUSANDS of years. If we farm sharks it would NOT be a massive waste because it would no longer be cost effective. If people continued to JUST pay for the fins, either fin prices would rise exponentially and therefor demand would drop enough to where the industry would die, or farmers would be forced to use the entire animal to get profit. Just think about how much it would cost to raise sharks. Imagine the volume of water needed etc. You couldn't generate that much profit unless people were paying thousands of dollars for a shark fin or that much for the shark as a whole. If we could stop commercial fishing of sharks completely I believe that the whole concept of "shark fin soup" would just outright die.

Once again, I really don't care about how much of the animal is "wasted" as long as it doesn't cause irreversible damage to the environment. That being said, if an animal is being wasted is usually causes damage.
Jan 15 2012 4:00PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Unfortunately, shark hunting is causing a huge effect on its ecosystem. They are going extinct. Endangered sharks are being hunted and wasted, just for their fin. I hope the market does stop, and I hope they just stop in general. I hope people wake up ad realise what they are doing to their oceans and seas.
Jan 15 2012 4:09PM
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Poundtown
Posts: 519 - Karma: 305
The moral of my post and what other arguments have arisen, that these are some of the many problems this earth faces today. We have been left a really messed up system by the older generation(s). But we are apart of the "Y" generation (new generation) and we need to fix these problems regardless of the stereotypes because we are running out of time. This generation has already show significant advancements in activism and social communication. We can do this, we just need to act on it. like I said, what is life worth to you, because WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, thats a fact.
Jan 15 2012 4:30PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
That's my point...
Jan 15 2012 4:39PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
That's what I thought. I'm just saying (and in no means are you wrong), if people think that they can just waste away their meat because it's farmed and grown for that reason, then it'll catch up on them. People will think they'll have an endless supply of livestock and fish. Wasting one away does add up. In time, it'll catch up to you guys, and you won't know what do to when your meat prices go up
Jan 15 2012 4:46PM
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Daoust
Posts: 487 - Karma: 103
so its okay as long as you remove the animal from their natural habit and have them breed and then raise them in shitty living areas, only for them to be killed for our own benefit
Jan 15 2012 5:12PM
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DW.
Posts: 2683 - Karma: 74
Sort of this, although there's definitely an argument to be made that it does reduce the negative effects on the natural cycle of things.
Jan 15 2012 5:20PM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
even if you ignore the ethics behind it, we need sharks in the food web. we NEED them, no ifs ands or buts. the chinese culture is my least favourite of the developed world. for sure the states, canada, europe, etc don't do nearly enough for the environment, but at least the people within those countries understand the subject matter. china is still largely uneducated and the system is corrupt because tradition is so heavily rooted in their minds they fail to even acknowledge the problems they are making worse

the real problem is people and maybe we were fucked from the start

Jan 15 2012 5:42PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14489 - Karma: 10,640
Thread for this
Jan 15 2012 5:46PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
2:04 "it tastes of nothing"

this is a professional eater and chef and this guy says it tastes of nothing and that really anything could be in there and it would taste good because of the broth.

that makes it even more fucked up that they are killing sharks for their fins which taste like nothing.
Jan 15 2012 5:52PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
care to explain what aspects of the industry is fucked up? and remember, you have to give an explanation, with supporting evidence how the entire industry (all facets of commercial fishing) is fucked up in order to support your statement. if you can't do this, then maybe you should shut the fuck up.




Jan 15 2012 5:53PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
excellent idea, care to explain who would breed these fish, lets say tuna for example, and then once they reach a size where their survival in the wild is ensured, in which part of the ocean would you release them from their captivity, so that they can continue their natural migratory routes? would the migratory route still be innate after being bred in a tank?

do you realize tuna are a transitory fish?

can you even comprehend the stupidity of your argument?

do you even know the amount of paperwork that has to be filled before and during a fishing trip on a commercial vessel? this paper work is what ministries use to monitor the health of the population and to implement quotas to ensure the sustainability of the industry.

all i see here is a bunch of children who have never fished commercially before, yet alone been out on the ocean far enough not to see land (except cruise ships) talking out their asses.
Jan 15 2012 6:00PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
I think he just meant have fish farms which they already do where they can breed fish and just pull them out to be eaten.

I dont know that he really understands anything about fishing or breading animals.

They pen raise all types of fish im sure they could figure out a way to do it with larger salt water fish. it would be one hell of an operation but could be done.
Jan 15 2012 6:11PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
what about the transfer of salt-water fish food such as anchovies and saury? you know it takes about 170 pounds of anchovies to create a pound of blue fin tuna flesh? what does that mean for the rest of the fish in the ocean who rely on this bottom-of-the-food-chain fish when we are concentrating our nets to gather as much food to feed the fish that we are now breeding in captivity?

this is just one example of why fish farms aren't the answer to our problems. the list goes on...imbalance of water chemistry, increased detritus, GMO'd fish to grow faster and the problems that could happen if a GMO'd fish bred with a fish in the wild, etc.
Jan 15 2012 6:44PM
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jorb.co
Posts: 2581 - Karma: 468
If i'm ever feeling suicidey i'm gonna steal me some fully automatic machine gunsy shit and just walk into a restaraunt like that or wherever they slaughter those sharks or the dolphins and just fucking open fire. Those people fucking disgust me
Jan 15 2012 7:55PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
that's cool, until you realize that what you disagree with is cultural. So if you want to kill people over doing something that has been engrained in their culture for many generations simply because you disagree with them, then by all means.

what you can do is not eat a restaurants that have shark fin soup on the menu and hope that the generations of young chinese become increasingly westernized and aware of the wrongs of shark fin soup. young asian people look towards western culture, and if they see these attitudes put out by ramsay and other people, then maybe they too will begin to think the same.
Jan 15 2012 8:58PM
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jorb.co
Posts: 2581 - Karma: 468
Yeah there's for sure that part of it, good point. Every culture has certain fucked up shit they eat or whatever. But I don't really see the cultural aspect of herding and trapping hundreds of thousands of dolphins and whales and slaughtering them for no practical reason. Now this is from a beef eating american's point of view where the exact same thing happens to cows and whatnot every day here, but I don't agree with that one bit either. Theres pros and cons for all that shit. I disagree with all of it. Why can't we all just survive on twinkies and ceasar salad or some shit. fuck.
Jan 15 2012 11:03PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
If it's not sustainable then DON'T FUCKING DO IT. I'm going to assume you have some ties to commercial fishing since I seem to have hit a sore spot. Would you care to explain to me why fish population has dropped so significantly if the industry's regulations are so perfect? Once again, if you can't harvest something in a way that has no irreversible damager on the environment don't harvest it. If you can't breed the fish so killing them becomes sustainable, DON'T EAT THE FUCKING FISH. Selfishness is going to be the downfall of humanity.

The fact that tuna are "transitory fish" means absolutely nothing to me. The fact that they barely escaped being placed on the endangered species list does.

By calling my argument stupid, you're saying that we should have no regard to the sustainability of our industries and the effects that they have on our environment. Brilliant.
Jan 16 2012 1:38AM
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POWDER.RANGER
Posts: 1698 - Karma: -24
this guy knows whats up
Jan 16 2012 1:59AM
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Furrer92
Posts: 784 - Karma: 341
threads for tomorrow
Jan 16 2012 2:10AM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
i never said the industries regulations are perfect. it's better than nothing though. minus the cod industry so many years back before quotas came into existence, give me some evidence of a fish population decreasing fished within the economic zone of north america to support your claim.

you should learn what transitory means, so that you can comprehend what you're saying in your previous post. tuna travel thousands of miles to feed and breed. who would be responsible for replenishing the stocks like you ask? do you know the logistics involved? did you even read my last post about the costs of farm raised fish?

you're putting words in my mouth. i call it stupid because it seems you are living or would like to live in a utopian world. you don't fully understand the logistics of what you're suggesting. no one would disagree with your last sentence, but you have to propose something that makes sense.
Jan 16 2012 9:31AM
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jteezy
Posts: 16 - Karma: 13
you have alot of free time dont you?
Jan 16 2012 10:37AM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
a lot of you miss the point, and it's about waste, and the fact that these animals aren't killed before they are slaughtered. chef ramsey keeps his own animals and slaughters them himself, and cooks them. there's nothing hypocritical about ethical meat production, ethical slaughtering, and avoid, mostly importantly WASTE. on another note, there's a fine difference between an endangered species, and one that's in abundance. an animal that is crucial to the balance of things.
Jan 16 2012 11:09AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
a company in new zealand actually was able to farm tuna. they basically drove a cage with them around and it worked so far. have seen a documentary somewhere, pretty sure you can find it somewhere
Jan 16 2012 11:48AM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
sharks aren't raised for slaughter, thats the problem.
Jan 16 2012 12:48PM
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squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
btw its not tens of thousands of sharks, we're talking tens of millions. sharks are long lived and not all that common compared to other commerically fished stocks. it won't last

and at the very least being the top predator on land, we should respect the top predator in the ocean
Jan 16 2012 1:20PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
find the name of it. i would like to watch it. driving a cage around the ocean sounds kind of ridiculous, but interesting to me.
Jan 16 2012 1:20PM
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Davy.Crockett
Posts: 5373 - Karma: 324
yes, if were getting on environmental rants here, they have no forms of environmental protections. so pretty much chinese mercury released from coal fired electrical plants in china is ending up in rivers and ponds in the pacific north west, blown across by the jet stream. fuck china
Jan 16 2012 1:24PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
Once again, you're missing my point. First of all, the world is a lot bigger than North America. Just because populations in one part of the world are "stable" (which they're not) doesn't mean other parts aren't getting fucked up. Salmon are a population that are decreasing in North America. I live in Seattle and all you have to do is talk to people at Pike Place Market to see this. Also, http://www.epa.gov/wed/pages/staff/lackey/pubs/salmon2100.pdf

Most of it focuses on river populations, but it's the same story. If a species is struggling with issues like climate change, don't make it worse by fishing for them.

I don't know how I can make it any more clear that I believe if there is no way to feasibly harvest things like tuna in a sustainable way DON'T FUCKING HARVEST TUNA. I know tuna move thousands of miles and it's probably not realistic to replenish what you catch, SO DON'T FUCKING EAT THEM. The stability of the ecosystem is far more important than people's need for tuna. That's what it comes down to. People need to sacrifice certain luxuries to ensure the long term safety of the world we live in. My solution is this: IF YOU CAN'T FIND A WAY TO DO SOMETHING IN A SUSTAINABLE WAY, DON'T DO IT.
Jan 16 2012 2:06PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
you're telling people to stop doing something that gives them their livelihood. how long should they wait so they can fish again?

Jan 16 2012 6:12PM
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yeahno
Posts: 4008 - Karma: 3,414
Click for larger image
Jan 16 2012 6:15PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,725
The sale of shark finn is illegal in Canada
Jan 16 2012 6:29PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I know you have a lot of Finnish immigrants, so I understand.

Shark Finns are precious 'people' to us.
Jan 16 2012 6:31PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
i cant find it, it was on TV a while ago. sorry for that.

but what i see are pretty much two regular options. as you can see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_bluefin_tuna#Aquaculture what i saw is that they cannot maintain a full population yet.

what i meant is basically "ranching" not complete aquaculture. but both methods help the wild population and could really make regular fishing expandable. youtubing "tuna farming/ranching" etc also shows some of the stuff i meant.

a company who even got some award by the time magazine is www.cleanseas.com.au for their non-mobile aquaculture.

it will take a few years maybe until its financially more appealing then regular fishing tho but definitely possible i hope.
Jan 16 2012 6:37PM
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JORMUNGAND
Posts: 360 - Karma: 480
sharks are chill. they swim around and be cool. i dont like seeing them die and stuff just for their fins. cows and chickens and pigs on the other hand, are lame, stupid, and dont do anything cool. so i eat them. can cows shoot lazers out of their eyes? no, so therefore they are lamer than sharks.
Jan 16 2012 6:43PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
http://www.cleanseas.com.au/fish/tuna.html
Jan 16 2012 6:46PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Couldn't find the show, but i know this is what these guys do.
Jan 16 2012 6:48PM
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*monsterskier*
Posts: 2671 - Karma: 61
you should specifiy which asians you're talking about

in this instance it should be as follows:

"fuck dem asians-that-needlessly-kill-sharks-just-for-their-fins."
Jan 16 2012 6:50PM
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