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More moderation in sell trade

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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
Ive been saying this for ever... and nothing has been done.

I know that you guys were looking for a rebuild approach over a band aid approach... but splitting WTB and ST still didn't really decrease the speed of the ST forum at all.

Its really frustrating when you look back an hour later (from creating or bumping) and your thread is two or three pages back. And then you click on threads on the first page and its full of OP bumps. In return we do it back. Its been a bidding war for the front page for years... and it sucks. Anyone who has ever tried to sell something on here can relate. Doug you even said yourself you don't know what its like being on the other side of the site sometimes. Go post a for sale thread with a blue name no one knows in ST and feel for yourself.

Until you guys start up a full classifieds section (which is the only way i can see this really working)... in the mean time can we not come up with some inforced formal rules for ST threads?

I propose
1) Pictures are a necessity. - no pictures.. threads gone. no questions asked
2) No threads from anyone with less than a certain amount of posts? Minimum 50 posts or something? (would make sales more legit... in return less people getting ripped off)
3) everyone add suggestions

I realize an overhaul needs to be done, this is what you guys told me a year ago. But nothing has been done. I realize you guys are super busy with other stuff on the site too. Maybe in the mean time can we implement a short term band aid solution that I have proposed?


What does everyone think? Im frustrated but I am trying to be constructive here



Jan 13 2012 11:29PM
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why
Posts: 2064 - Karma: 65
i 100% agree with everything you said
Jan 13 2012 11:39PM
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skitheWest.
Posts: 2304 - Karma: 1,276
I definitely think that pics are necessary. I usually don't even bother reading a thread in B/S/T unless there are pics
Jan 13 2012 11:49PM
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introvert
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 1,482
.
Jan 14 2012 1:15AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Post =/= credibility for one.

Second, get over it. The site is huge now and I personally believe the speed at which your thread drops is proportional to the number of people that see it. Newschoolers is a skiing website that also has a selling and trading section, not the other way around. They don't make any money off that forum, and members should refrain from suggesting it is their responsibility to take on the impossible task of sifting through the crap.
Jan 14 2012 12:42PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
great. four posts for someone to be a dick.

you are wrong on multiple points. newschoolers is a online freeskiing COMMUNITY. Its not just a website. its more than ski gabber.
They make money off that forum! The exact same way they do in ALL the other forums. Banner advertisements. It is arguably the most profitable forum, given its the only forum that sells a service allowing you to create your own sale banner.

It is their responsibility. Next time you post get your facts straight
Jan 14 2012 2:07PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
i'm not speaking on behalf of the admins or NS in general but i would be down with enforcing some rules such as pictures required and perhaps some further splitting of the forum (dunno whether that's possible) like hardwear/softwear (would also kind of enjoy the same split for gear talk)

the minimum required posts is a good idea but practically it's not very good i think...
it will only encourage trolls to make 50 dumb posts in some regional or hidden forum section so they can sell their crap ....
+ i think also newbies deserve a chance to buy/sell/trade
it's up to the buyer/seller to decide whether or not they're going to trust these people ....

and the excessive bumping, i wouldn't really see how to moderate this, x bumps/week max?
I think that if there becomes a clearer structure in BST there wouldn't be need to bump your shit as much as is happening now ....
Jan 14 2012 2:34PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
yeah the only feasible way to decrease clutter with the same format currently is to eliminate some of said clutter. i.e. pictures needed.

and the ultimate way to decrease clutter in the long run is to have multiple BST categories  (like you said, hard/soft etc)
Jan 14 2012 2:45PM
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613.
Posts: 827 - Karma: 164
1 Bump a day?
Jan 14 2012 2:57PM
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SacZiplock
Posts: 2405 - Karma: 513
good thread is good
Jan 14 2012 4:23PM
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wintersway
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 128
found a flaw in the minimum post count. I personally know someone who joined the site when they saw something they wanted in the sell and trade section. she has sold and bought crowbar parts and other small things and has probably 3 posts now. she browses all the time, has been a member for at least two years, and just doesn't post in the forums.

but then again, are comments on articles, pictures, and videos now counted as posts? I feel like that would get some of those browsers to start gaining posts..
Jan 14 2012 9:34PM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,285
would encourage post whoring. minimum karma and/or mod approval?

too much work tho...
Jan 15 2012 10:35AM
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Kangbang
Posts: 14211 - Karma: 423
I've been wanting this too!

No pictures, thread can't be made.

No one can bump your thread but you. If they are interested, they can PM you. I hate it when noobs are like "cool jacket bro, wish i had the money, free bump" It's annoying as fuck. I hate it when other people but myself bump my thread.

Crack down on the kids who are too stupid to move their mouse 1cm over to the WTB forum and make their WTB thread there. They claim that it doesn't get looked at often which is bullshit.

No hating in people's FS threads.

If red names had the ability, I'd really wanna be a ST only mod.
Jan 15 2012 4:15PM
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NickSki.
Posts: 2009 - Karma: 61
hahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaaha
Jan 15 2012 7:57PM
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.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
I'd prefer theclap. to be a dedicated ST mod actually.
Jan 15 2012 9:28PM
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-AP-
Posts: 819 - Karma: 344
Lol.
I definitely agree with the picture part though, and it should be pictures with their username too. People should have to give descriptions of the condition of their goods too. Definitely agree with the part about keeping WTB ads in the WTB section.
I don't think your other points are necessary though.
Jan 15 2012 9:52PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,063
I think a classified section would be sweet, i bet it would be pretty easy to whip up.
Jan 15 2012 9:53PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
other forums i'm on require a minimum post count & a minimum time as a member to make threads in the S/T forum

also other forums have an automatic bump button that you can use once a day that bumps your thread without posting in it, removing the mass amount of bumps in a thread

honestly I hate that NS doesn't get their shit together and upgrade s/t, it's a huge draw for the site but with that also comes the responsibility of making sure it is clean, organized, and efficient

but of course that would be the logical thing to do, and we all know admins never get around to doing anything like that, instead they do worthless upgrades on the picture section and change around forum orders in the hot bar
Jan 16 2012 12:26AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
let's make a little recap of what is suggested so far:

1) pictures are required, no pictures, no thread
(i agree completely, if you're too lazy to make pictures of what you're selling you might also be too lazy to actually ship your stuff)
2) bump buttons
(i somewhat see this working, 1bump a day with a button, might be a good idea, would also attract more traffic to the site from the sellers/traders themselves)
3) more sub sections
(would definitely create some order in the chaos, perhaps also a euro section? i know theres already a euro bst cult but an open euro/non-N-America bst forum might also work ...)
4)strict enforcement of BST / WTB
(this is something to us (the mods), i think that right now Ginko is the only one actively moderating in there, i think i'll start checking it as well on regular basis, i'll post it up in mod discussion)
5) minimum post-count/time as a member
(i'm personally not really a fan of this, i think it's up to the trade partner to decide whether or not they think someone's legit. They can then decide if a new member with no feedback and a handful of posts is worth trusting or not ...)
6) a classified section? as in donators only or something ? that might be a cool idea :)
7) BST only mods
(i think we can get the job done with the mods we already have we just need to adjust our aim/role a little and also actively moderate in BST and WTB ..)


Jan 16 2012 3:51AM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
lets get some rednames in here and see what they say
Jan 16 2012 3:57AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
^^i also think that having a template might be a good idea...

ie.

Selling: ##product##
Year: ##
Condition:##(several different rating systems have been suggested)##
Size: ##
Price:##(or make an offer)
Location:##
Shipping to: ##US, US+CAN, Worldwide?##
extra comments: ##


Jan 16 2012 3:59AM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
Why don't we just eliminate people bumping their own threads, which is a huge part of the problem. There are threads in there that are nothing up personal bumps. Slow things down a little to start.
Jan 16 2012 8:41AM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
that wouldn't do anything. if you weren't aloud to bump the reposts, redundancy and repetition of the same thing would still ensue.  kids would just make another thread in means of bumping
Jan 16 2012 12:52PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Bumping is annoying, but if you are that persistent and want your stuff gone that badly, it should be more power to you then, always has been this way on NS. It doesnt seem to me that its the bumping, its the sheer volume of threads that get posted every day compared to a few years back - more people trafficing the site has just led it, killing bumps will make it less chaotic, but wont stop your threads from getting buried 4 pages back within a few days.

Look at the threads in Sell/Trade. More than half of it is clothing, not even ski outerwear, just clothing. If we want to do something meaningful to reduce the amount of clutter and make it more manageable for users, why not split Sell Trade into Hardgoods and Softgoods subforums?


Jan 16 2012 1:27PM
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MacMahoooon
Posts: 9009 - Karma: 3,305
I still maintain that bumping is an issue.

Out of the current 35 front page threads, in 28 of the the most recent post is the original poster. While some of those cases are legit answers to questions, a good majority are all BUMP or some form of, and in many of those the most recent 2,3,4 etc posts are all the original poster.

Enforcing a template would be awesome but so hard to do in a forum setting. We'd essentially have to switch to a proper classified to make that work.

We could look at splitting the forums, but all that really does is spread the issue over multiple sections
Jan 16 2012 1:40PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
^^it would however make it easier for people looking to buy specific gear...

ie. if you're looking for skis, there isn't much ways of finding a pair besides sifting through every thread, even the searchbar can't help you find specific gear ....
Jan 16 2012 1:43PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Craigslist is a solid model in my opinion. They have sections to make searching for goods easier. The better you can direct buyers to what they're looking for, the better the system as a whole - you can have all the sellers in the world offering up all the possible goods, but its buyers that drive the system in the end. Without them, nothing moves. Cater to the buyer.

Here would be an easy fix if we want to avoid splitting Sell Trade and ending bumping - restrict the ability to post in threads in Sell Trade. After the initial post, no replies are allowed - or make it so that replies dont move the thread to the top. Could something like this work?
Jan 16 2012 2:33PM
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Keyjibbs
Posts: 1542 - Karma: 96
I think having strict rules would eliminate a good part of the problem in the forums. I agree, pictures are a MUST. I also think having a minimum post count and minimum join date i.e. 3 months and 50 posts. If people are going to sell on this site they might as well contribute to the community. If we just have a minimum post count people can just post a shit ton in a hidden forum. If you have a minimum join date it means you have to be on the site for a little while. I understand it's not NS's job to make sure no one is scamming in the forums but I feel having some strict rules with BST Mod's will lessen the chance of it happening.

The bump thing is a tricky thing to me. The Sell/Trade forum moves so damn fast these days. Like within an hour or less your post will be on the second page at least. The problem is no one is encouraged to look further than the first page to find items. I think having a bump button would help slow the forum down a little but the site has grown so much that the sheer amount of threads created make the forum move insanely fast.

It's definitely not an easy decision but as someone who actively sells and buys on this site, that forum needs more moderation and rules for sure. A classifieds section would be awesome but didn't they already try that? I don't think it worked well at all. Either way, the Sell/Trade forum needs some fixing whether it's a major overhaul or just something minor has having more BST mods.
Jan 16 2012 3:30PM
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Kangbang
Posts: 14211 - Karma: 423
This is Strictly Supreme's guide lines for selling. I couldn't agree more with them.


RULES, REGULATIONS AND OTHER THINGS ALL MEMBERS NEED TO KNOW

Marketplace
-ALL photos are to be tagged to prove owner ship and possession of item(s)

Tagged photo standard- STRICTLY SUPREME Username, recent date and forum name (SS or STRICTLY SUPREME)

(Multiple forum names are OK, but there has to be a reference to THIS forum AND your SS username on tags)

The following will not be tolerated:

-Untagged or improperly tagged pictures

-Listings where no picture is present or will be added “later”

-NO stock photos unless accompanied by user tagged photo

-EDITED PHOTOS, EMBEDDED TAGS ON PHOTOS

*FAILURE TO MEET THESE REQUIRMENTS WILL RESULT IN LISTING DELETION AND 7 DAY BAN WITHOUT NOTICE*

Multiple item listings
-can all be listed in one post if same type item and size

-items can be also added to existing listings by clicking EDIT or simply posting in the same thread

-DO NOT CREATE MULTIPLE LISTINGS IN THE SAME ITEM/SIZE SECTION!

PRICING
ALL listings MUST have starting offer, price listed with the current high offer OR Price with "Or Best Offer" after

“BUMPING”
PLEASE KEEP THE BUMPING OF THREADS TO ONE TIME PER 24 HOUR SPAN

Sales/Trade Agreements
Are highly encouraged to cover your ass in all transaction matters and to provide documentation of transactions

Although agreement threads are not required, they are RECOMMENDED

Marketplace “Flaming”
Is unnecessary, un-classy and irrelevant to the purpose of the MP

-Flaming, bashing, talkin shit in MP will result in 1ST Occurrence –WARNING, 2nd Occurrence -7 day ban

SOLD/TRADED/KEPT ITEMS
-upon the completion of your transactions, we ask that you please go back to your listing and click EDIT, then GO ADVANCED and add “SOLD” , “TRADED”, “KEEPING” or whatever your reason to terminate the listing is, to the TITLE.
(this will help keep the MP updated and clean)

*Failure to comply with forum rules and regulations WILL result in 7 day bans which are subject to no warning- THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING*

Everyone on this forum knows what the deal is and the reasoning for these rules

LET’S GET OUR SHIT TOGETHER!

PM ANY MOD OR BOD WITH ANY QUESTIONS

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION,
- STRICTLY SUPREME MODERATION TEAM-
Jan 17 2012 6:29AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Nothing would ever get sold... and people would just keep making the same thread repeatedly once a day.

Proposal: if you want to bump your own thread you have to drop the price by $5 or 10% whichever is higher. Bumping without price drop = thread deleted.
Jan 17 2012 9:27AM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
I really like the idea of separate boards for each category. For example one for skis, one for binding, snow gear, clothing, etc etc. Pretty much any b/s/t site with any amount of traffic has that, and it makes a lot of sense.

Maybe something similar to the MEC gear swap would be possible for here. It's set up very well in my opinion.

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ContentPrimary/Community/GearSwap.jsp
Jan 17 2012 10:46AM
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*simba*
Posts: 9125 - Karma: 512
BHA
Jan 17 2012 10:51AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
What about your new media upload template? Could it be implemented in BST, and just add a Create Thread function?

People could add multiple pics and write prices, descriptions etc. in the same screen.
Jan 17 2012 12:27PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
or move over to a non forum system and adopt a spin-off of the "gear reviews"

^^this would be sick imho ....
Jan 17 2012 12:37PM
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NickSki.
Posts: 2009 - Karma: 61
oh the irony! Kangbang youd be on a fucking permaban if they enforced this
Jan 17 2012 3:54PM
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thatsG
Posts: 2568 - Karma: 1,772
This was my idea

1. To create a sale all members must be members for more than two months. Members could also pay $10 to get their sale approved if member for under two months. Money could be used to improve the site or for a BST moderator.
EX-Members Join on January 1, 2011 can not sell until March 1, 2011 unless paid $10.
(THIS WOULD LOWER THE AMOUNT OF SCAMMERS)

2. Threads are ordered by date created, so there is no need to bump a sale every hour. This will also make it easier to see the newest sale, not the most bumped sale. (THIS WOULD GET RID OF ALL BUMPING ISSUES)

3. Must have photos with a piece of paper with the member name and date to show proof of possession. (THIS WOULD MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE ITEM IN HAND)

4. Must have a tracking number and give it to the buyer. (THIS WOULD MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR SHIT)
Jan 17 2012 4:59PM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
Another huge downfall (and not within admin control) is reliability of the buyer/seller. To go with the average-age-is-12 stereotype, I feel like TONS of people commit to buying, but then a week later flake out because their parents don't want to hand over their credit cards. On top of that, then finding a way to get the product shipped.

Check out how smoothly things move in the TGR forums.

Then again, there really isn't a way to moderate it either.

Jan 17 2012 5:24PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
i like all of these ideas.

#4 is super hard to enforce though.

just an idea, can you add a function where the seller can choose a section to classify their goods in? like the picture section has sections, and potential buyers can search threw the sections for what they want.

BUT THERE IS STILL AN OPTION TO VIEW ALL THREADS!

i also really like the idea of the bump button for once perday, so is the idea of listing the threads by date created, i only look at the date created so that way i dont look at shit over again.

but i also like the idea of the buyer should have some incentive to sell his/her items, so the once a day bumping idea could be the best option.


the classified section is a good idea, but that eliminate the forum part of the site, and also eliminates discussion, which while there isnt much discussion in b/s/t/ there is some and it can be helpful.



also like to say that this is the best thread about b/s/t i have seen lots of positive input!!!
Jan 17 2012 7:19PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
Honestly I kind of like the 50 posts minimum, a lot of scammers/trolls won't want to take the time to post 50 times just to make a sale thread. And besides, if they spam all 50 posts, they can just be perma banned.
Jan 17 2012 8:39PM
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Jake...
Posts: 11976 - Karma: 296
its not hard at all to set up a counter that wont let you post in ST for a certain time after start date (a week or what ever). that eliminates cluster fuck post whoring up to 50 posts ( or what ever) with the same desired outcome.

The rules the guy posted, sorry i forget who it was, with the SS forum picture rules are mint. Its so simple to implement that... paul has to do nothing and this can be feasibly implemented tomorrow (obviously not to be set up tomorrow but just saying that all it requires is a new sticky pretty much)

i like all the ideas coming up and glad its not just me
Jan 17 2012 11:09PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
if you were to do a thing where there was a minimum post count/time on site, i think there should be a way to over rule it. such as if it were a two month rule, you could have members that have above x amount of posts or x time on site vouch for you, and basically make it a co-sale so that there is an established member with good feedback holding the sale. so if a new member wanted to sell something, they could have a established friend verify them
Jan 17 2012 11:24PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
i also think that sellers should always include prices.
Jan 18 2012 8:19AM
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