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Moment Skis durability

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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
I've heard it has not improved. I loved my Bibby's last year but I snapped a tail in the park. They broke way too easily, and broke badly. My buddy warned me about Moment and "handmade" skis in general. He says a machine can make a better ski than a person, which is a point. I hate to bash Moment cause they have some fresh skis, but if someone's gonna drop 700 bucks on a new pair of skis, they had better last!! No warranty because it was in the park, but still, they were fucking frail. Not very strong sandwich construction in this case, Head seems to have figured it out, though. Machine made > handmade
Jan 13 2012 3:37AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Do you have any idea how skis are made?
Jan 13 2012 6:20AM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10448 - Karma: 10,021
machine made. duh....
Jan 13 2012 7:00AM
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SlurbnBeef
Posts: 1462 - Karma: 321
I am riding a pair of rockers atm, and they are amazing!! The top sheet chips quite easy, but aside from that one flaw the duribility is awesome, the bases are wicked tough, and they are lasting! I think moment is a great brand in my mind if this helps out at all, but to also say they are park skis, and i do take them in park all day everyday, so im not sure if the skis insides are different from park ski to powder ski or something, but I hope this helped a little with durabilty
Jan 13 2012 7:20AM
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Mathieu.fr
Posts: 382 - Karma: 171
I've skied with quite a few differents skis brands lately and I'm currently using Moment Skis : they're are, for the moment, hands down the most durable skis I've own so far. Especially compared to CoreUPT or Dynastar skis which got topsheet issues and edges cracks pretty easily
Jan 13 2012 7:49AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
There is no way to make a ski entirely by hand- machines will always be a part of the process. Molds, presses, milling machines are a necessity.
Jan 13 2012 8:02AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
I would contact Moment directly and share your sad tail... But then again you broke it on a rail, so odds are they won' t help you, buit maybe if you ask nice they might give you a discount on a new pair.

Your Bibbys are a big ski (116 waist) must be a bit of a chore on rails...

I have had mine for two seasons and they slay....and I am no lightweight. Durability hasn' t been a problem the bases seem real tough... no complaints from me, but then again I won't let these powder skis hit a rail.... that is a whole other level of torcher... and I don't expect any ski, let alone a powder ski to put up to that kind of abuse (especially with a fat bastard like me on it) for very long....

Jan 13 2012 8:53AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
Hold on....man vs machine. man wins everytime....see Terminator films...

Modern skis are a unique pairing of hands on work and machinery....you can make a ski by hand and back in the day they did, but most of those skis hang on walls in ski town bars.

Maybe you mean to say large scale industrial manufacturers vs boutique brands. My vote boutique brands....in general they care more about the details, use better materials, and are more attentive to their customers specific needs.... Moment is can be included in this catergory.... Salomon, Rossignol, Atomic, Fischer...etc do not,but they still make good stuff
Jan 13 2012 9:06AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Even Atomic skis say 'handemade in Autria' on the topsheet..

As onenerdykid says, there is no way to make skis entirely by hand, but you can reverse this as well, you will always need hands to put the edges on, lay up process etc.. Skis that are made in China are not cheaper because its all done by machines, the people that make the skis just get paid shit..

As for Moments quallity, its very high.. There are a few companies I see in the top of the market and Moment is one of them..

Be my guest to buy something like Salomon..
Jan 13 2012 9:21AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
;)
Jan 13 2012 9:22AM
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Stose
Posts: 7109 - Karma: 4,123
I have been waiting for this thread forever. I have had some serious problems with moments durability, and i live in Reno so i have seen many others have problems too. My skis broke after about 15 days of skiing, and i put them under the same amount of pressure as all my other skis which didn't break. Then moment spent a month trying to "fix" my skis, and the day i got them back the broke again to the point of being completely unusable. I don't understand how people can say moments are the most durable skis they have ridden, because people at the pro shop here always recommend that buyers don't get moments because they are known for not lasting long
Jan 13 2012 9:34AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
This is where I will politely disagree with you. Dollar for dollar, I challenge anyone to find a ski that is more custom tuned and cared for than one of ours. We custom make our own wood cores, edges, base material, top sheets, screen prints, everything... We produce all of those elements directly from raw materials to our exact specifications and requirements, whereas most other companies purchase them from an outside supplier. We only have a 4 day supply of materials on hand, so everything is as fresh as can be- nothing sits around waiting to get used. Even our machines are made entirely by us.

Our skis are produced as singles, then individually weighed, flexed and paired with their ideal mate.

Are we a big company? Sure. But walking through the factory on a daily basis has only confirmed to me that there is an insane amount of love that goes into each and every ski we make.
Jan 13 2012 9:42AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004
Its not like Moments are The Most Durable..thats hard to say.. but it is really high..plus they have thicker bases than other companies (Yes ON3P has even thicker) wich is something I really like.. Plus their cores are really solid and made from real wood (different kinds combined in different skis) unlike some compressend shitty wood cores you find elsewhere..
All skis can break..all topsheets damage, all edges can crack etc etc.. Use your skis, but dont expect them to be bombproof or still look like an piece of art after a few months..
Jan 13 2012 9:49AM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11989 - Karma: 12,264
what were you doing to make your skis break?
Jan 13 2012 10:04AM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Never had a problem with Moments and have had 11 different pairs over the past 5 years. Never had any sign of delamination and at most 4 or 5 core shots total over that time. And I ski hard and in terrain not suited for that. In fact, I had over 120 days on the 190 Bibby from 09/10 with zero issues.

Seems like whenever a thread like this arises and from some kid (not necessarily you) that can't ski. Hell, a snapped a pair of DPS skis in half but it was my own damn fault for not knowing how to land a particular air. They warrantied it, but don't expect a company to warranty user error.

Moments are some of the most bomber skis out there, and outside of this forum, I've never heard of any problems while talking to other customers on the mountain.
Jan 13 2012 10:16AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
I expect you to disagree...it is your employer.

I am not saying that Atomic employee don' t perform, of course they do their best...their jobs depend on it.
I never bashed your product...

But to say that Atomic skis are custom in any way is misleading....Can a working slob like myself get extra carbon stringers, custom topsheet, or tunned to my specific specifications from Atomic? Good luck.

I will answer your challenge: ON3P. Those guys are hungry and it is not just their jobs at stake when they send out their skis, it is their dream realized. Hell they even have a contest to let their supporters design the topsheet. My glasses may be rose coloured when it comes to smaller North American manufacturers, but you can understand my position because they employ and generate an economy (however small) right here in my backyard.

Correct me if I am wrong but Atomic like all those other big names is certainly not run like co-op. You cannot convince me that the powers that run Atomic don' t have the bottom line in mind... otherwise they would be on the factory floor making skis for their valued customers like the dudes from ON3P. Hell 4frnt may make their skis overseas, but I know what Matt looks like and they even have a store in operation to reach out and get feedback from supporters.

Atomic has you...and they are lucky for it... and the Bent Chelter





Jan 13 2012 10:20AM
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Session
Posts: 5390 - Karma: 22,282
You seem to be obsessed with trying to make one of the more outstanding members of this forum look bad. And rage about big industry. It's kind of creepy.
Jan 13 2012 10:31AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
No worries, always room for friendly discussion, I take nothing personal nor project it. And you are correct about that version of custom, that is something we do not do for the public. I was merely using it by saying how we create everything on our own, so it is custom for our meticulous expectations. But I would love to get a chance to tour the ON3P factory, I'm sure it's awesome. Like I said in another post somewhere, I totally dig what those guys are doing. Hell, that's how Atomic started 50 years ago.

It's kinda weird for Atomic like this, because they really do operate on their own... It's really weird. On one hand there is Amer, big powerful company calling some shots from Finland. Sure, that exists. But then you have Atomic. Still based in a town of only 3,700 people. Still making skis as if their jobs depended on it. Product managers on the production floor obsessing over every retarded detail. So, I guess there is this Atomic "on paper" that most people talk about and then there is the one I experience every day and I see how much they live and breathe skiing. And they are the most obsessive people I have met.
Jan 13 2012 11:05AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
Creepy....obsessed?

I like onenerdykid. He keeps his head cool and knows his stuff and I agree with alot of what he says....but I am also aware that he is employed by one largest ski company, so it is important to note that his opinions on product and companies may be beneficial and insightful, but they are also filtered and controlled because of who he works for.

I apologize if it seems like I am raging on big industry...I am trying to be positive about the little guys... it is hard to hide the fact that I have been layed off twice because of the greed of the powers that be...

However, I haven' t been disrespectful or rude, so if I wish to express my perspective on a public forum then that is my perogative, no? That is why we are all here right? I don' t think I warrant being classified me as obsessive and creepy...
Jan 13 2012 11:19AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
There's no real conspiracy here or that I am told to say certain things or that Amer will flog me. I will criticize the brand to no end, it's how I got the job in the first place. But I do try to not say opinions in my posts; I try to stick to facts and real evidence to prove my points. Which is why I think people like my posts- it's fact based awesomeness.
Jan 13 2012 11:33AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
From what I have read by OneNerdyKid, I think he personally would be the first to admit a wrongdoing on atomic's part whether it is quality, durability, or even performance issues. Atomic has to be one of the most responsive large companies out there to customers. Yes it is hard to listen to every single persons gripe about a ski, but I know in the racing world, they are always shifting their equipement after listening to their sponsored athletes, whether they are Benni Raich or a lower level college racer .
Jan 13 2012 11:37AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
Thanks man, what's crazy is really how much we travel (about 100 days per year) to get out in the field (whether it's with our athletes or into the shops or on the slopes with consumers) to get the right information needed to build the best stuff possible. Sure a lot of our design comes from our own ideas (me as boot-fitter helps the boot design for sure) but we want to get the end user involved as much as possible.

My next 3 weeks involve me flying over to Utah, then Germany, to Austria, to Japan, to Italy, back to Austria. Sometimes it makes me want to saw my own arms off but in the end it's awesome. And when we come to market with new products you will see that we listened.
Jan 13 2012 11:46AM
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Session
Posts: 5390 - Karma: 22,282
The first 2 threads i read this morning has you attacking and comparing Atomic and indies. Oneoernerykid has been dead in your crosshairs on both of them.

Even bringing up the ill fated Quest AT thing.
Jan 13 2012 11:49AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
C' mon you can' t say that your employer doesn' t affect your opinions with a straight face....you certainly can declare that your perspective is completely empirical and free of any influence whatsoever...that would be ridiculous, no? You live breathe and are fed by Atomic especially when you declare that your product are the most custom tuned dollar for dollar and use the best fabrication techniques....etc (paraphrased). These are subjective comments and it is clear that they would be different if you worked for say Armada, Line/k2..etc... Don't get me wrong it is good to believe in your employer, but you can' t say that the way you present interpret and express facts and even opinions are not filtered by your habitus.

Like you my view is shaped by my experience and there is no way to deny that, but when I express opinions about skiing and the ski industry they are not shaped by my paycheck. It is undeniable that the fact and real evidence you use and promote are affected by your job. The awesomeness you post is curtosy of Atomic, but awesome nonetheless....
Jan 13 2012 11:54AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
Everything I've said is a fact or based on a fact that can be empirically measured and judged. If I'm wrong, I will be the first to admit it, that I promise you. The information on our ski production/factory was all fact, nothing misguided. And I did also qualify it by saying dollar for dollar. We make skis for $299. To compare that to an ON3P isn't fair. So, when it's dollar for dollar, I'm fairly certain that we are near the top of the list.
Jan 13 2012 12:05PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Although I tend to bash certain design aspects of Moment skis, typically the square tips, their durability is pretty damn good. IMHO OP is a rih-tard.
Jan 13 2012 12:17PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
oh I can deff think of a few
Jan 13 2012 12:20PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
Total thread jack.....we both should hang head in shame...


Listen if your not prepared to admit your post are not affected by who you work for....then I don' t know what to say....however you do swing the weight of your job when trying to rationalize your arguements...not to mention that each post you make declares that "We are Skiing". While it is good to be upfront about it, you have to admit it poses some issues, especially when commenting in the thread concerning other brands.... You can' t unequivocally refute this fact. Your employer affects your perspective....it says so at the bottom of every post.

I don' t wish to insult you personally, this is not my intention....I just can' t accept what you present as fact without questioning where it came from, how it is presented, and who paid to interpret and collect it... Especially when it is a non-Atomic related thread.


To the OP sorry buddy.....I am very happy with my Moment Bibbys, and if you talk to the guys at Moment you might be surprised... And I wouldn' t let anyone scare you off buying from a smaller manufacturer again....
Jan 13 2012 12:29PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,975
Also sorry for the thread-jack, but it's what helps threads get to page 2 sometimes ;) I'll stop after this.

It doesn't pose issues if my statements correspond to what actually exists, which is by definition what a fact is. It doesn't matter who I work for, since that is what facts are, objective. A fact (if true) is correct regardless of what company pays my bills.

If it were all opinion, then you would be totally correct and I would only be selling the kool-aid. Anyhoo, it was a good chat for sure.
Jan 13 2012 12:55PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
If you think a fact should be taken at face value regardless of context, interpretation, extrapolation or method of collection... then all is lost.

We could debate this philosophically for hours, but you cannot avoid the reality that your opinion and the facts you use to support them are biased by your employer....It is ingrained in your daily activities. Every post has Atomic on it somewhere even if it is only in the web address at the bottom. It is your habitus.

You may not be able to see it but I can, and you may be selling it, but I ain't drinking no corperate Koolaid Atomic has mixed up... Ha Ha! jokes...

Peace and Trees Buddy


Jan 13 2012 1:17PM
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radish
Posts: 405 - Karma: 351
Still rockin my 08 moment rubys. most durable ski I have ever owned
Jan 13 2012 1:42PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
anyway, to chime in on durability

from what I have been witness to, their pow skis are very bomber, but their park skis don't quite match that. My buddy had reno rockers and after a season they were missing a good amount of edge and were completely reverse camber with a LOT of topsheet chipping(not just little bits, im talking large chunks)
Jan 13 2012 2:15PM
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fragglemuffin
Posts: 3312 - Karma: 444
I've had both Jibs and Rockers, and have beat the bejeebus out of them. IMO, they blow all of the other park skis I've owned out of the water in terms of durability (vs. Line Invaders, Liberty Laroses, Elan Mo2's). Sure the topsheets chip and the edges get beat, but that will happen on any park ski. I've never snapped a pair, never cracked an edge, and never blown out a sidewall on them. Overall, I LOVE my moments!
Jan 13 2012 4:11PM
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Karkoskier
Posts: 2999 - Karma: 4,661
I got a pair of last years Jibs for christmas, then the day I pulled them out of the box I pushed on them a little to flex them and I heard a loud snap noise. Then the first day on them the tip snapped badly..

Moment then replaced them with this years team jibs and I just pulled them out of the box like 30 mins ago. I flexed them a little (wanting to see if the same thing would happen, weather it was a defect in the other ski or not) and heard some cracks, but nothing to serious.. I'm a little scared now though.

Has anyone else flexed them by hand and heard these cracking noises?

(Btw, I didn't go insane flexing these, I only pushed them a little to see how stiff they were, maybe like 1/8 of the force I could have fully pushed them)
Jan 13 2012 6:05PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
That's not normal. Imagine how much force goes into the ski on nose/tail presses on a certain part of the ski.
Jan 13 2012 8:30PM
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Karkoskier
Posts: 2999 - Karma: 4,661
Yeah that's what I've been thinking about. I'm curious to see if anyone has had similar issues with the flex, because this is the second moment ski (both different models) that have made suspicious noises..

I guess I'll have to see how the team's make out..
Jan 13 2012 8:35PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
brand new skis that have never been flexed before will often make a cracking sound, just think of it as the materials starting to break in

but there is deff a difference between normal flex "cracking" and the ski actually breaking
Jan 13 2012 8:41PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
Relevant video

Jan 13 2012 8:42PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
Sorry for the auto play.

I was really hoping to buy Moments next season, but what you guys said about durability concerns me.

Jan 13 2012 8:45PM
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Karkoskier
Posts: 2999 - Karma: 4,661
Yeah with the Jibs they definitely like snapped.. It was a very loud, depressing noise. The teams were just creaking, but they've stopped now. reading this has definitely calmed my worries a bit..
Jan 13 2012 8:47PM
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Jibbidy
Posts: 787 - Karma: 19
Yeah like we got some experts that say "Moments the best durability I've ever known" when in reality they've only ridden 10% of the brands out there. I've heard much more horror about Moment than other brands - just saying. And a 100% (or near) machine-built ski (tri-axial braiding, etc.) will be stronger than a mostly hand-built ski. I KNOW it's great to support smaller companies but if you're dropping the same amount of cash as other brands, they damn well better be just as strong. I think the reputation is arising as we see of moment quality < mainstream quality
Jan 13 2012 9:04PM
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Stose
Posts: 7109 - Karma: 4,123
anyone who says moments are the most durable ski they have ever ridden have clearly not ridden many skis. I have about 10 pictures of local kids snapped moments, or moments that delaminated.
Jan 14 2012 12:54AM
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Parks.
Posts: 5612 - Karma: 1,093
I have had moments for a year...a lot of chips on the ski and living in reno gives me a lot of broken moment skis...I'm just happy mine haven't broken......yet. I want new skis...u can get a much better ski
Jan 14 2012 1:07AM
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Crocodile
Posts: 281 - Karma: 11

My moment bibbys are barely showing any signs of wear, I couldn't be more happy with the durability (and the overall ski). That being said, any pair of skis can break at any given point, sure some are better than others but at the end of the day it's mainly luck.

Jan 14 2012 1:27AM
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skiRay
Posts: 7558 - Karma: 926
mythreads. I have to read most of the replies still but I find it interesting that you snapped them. did the ski get caught? because I can think of no other way that they would just snap. I ski my 186 bibbys in the park pretty damn hard and I've never even had an issue. I did break my tahoes skiing some all mtn a couple years back but the ski that I broke was inder a ton of force.
Jan 14 2012 5:51PM
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Karkoskier
Posts: 2999 - Karma: 4,661
I brought them into the shop at the mountain I was skiing when mine snapped, and asked the tech if he had an opinion. He said that the ski was defintiely defective because there's no way that would happen after one run. The run that broke them was my first run ever on them and I avoided all kinked rails, my edges were detuned, and the only jump trick I did was a 360 off a 25ft table. Then I got to the bottom and the my topsheet looked like a crumpled piece of paper and the tip was bent. I called Moment and sent them some pics, they said they would replace them and they ended up giving me this year's Team's. So we'll see how they hold up.
Jan 14 2012 8:03PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
I was thinking about those Team skis, could you check in after you get more familiar with them and give a bit a review......it would be appreciated....good luck Karkoskier.
Jan 16 2012 8:30AM
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Session
Posts: 5390 - Karma: 22,282
That's probably because they cheap out, and use a core that doesn't extend in to the tip of the ski.
Jan 16 2012 10:22AM
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Karkoskier
Posts: 2999 - Karma: 4,661
I'm getting them mounted sometime after school this week, then this coming Sunday I'll be using them and I'll give you a review on them then. So far I have to say I love the graphics on them, they're by far the sickest looking skis I've seen, but we'll see how they ride.
Jan 16 2012 7:48PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
also, no one buy moment poles, mine are the biggest pieces of shit ive ever wasted money on, they literally bent at a 45ยบ angle just standing in line
Jan 16 2012 7:53PM
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Stose
Posts: 7109 - Karma: 4,123
yeah i snapped my hitting the snow off my boots. it is now a pole mount for my gopro
Jan 16 2012 8:20PM
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