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Obama signs NDAA bill into law

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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
147 years later, and the tables have turned. Welcome Amurica, to totalitarianism.

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inb4 Civilian Labor Inmate Program
Jan 2 2012 12:13AM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
blah
Jan 2 2012 12:15AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I got banned for that once.
Jan 2 2012 12:18AM
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anashyo
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 353
Inb4 shitstorm
Jan 2 2012 12:19AM
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Sherlock_Holmes
Posts: 280 - Karma: 48
pig is the win
Jan 2 2012 12:20AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
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Jan 2 2012 12:23AM
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Sherlock_Holmes
Posts: 280 - Karma: 48
and not trying to be a tool or anything but remember habeas corpus via Abraham Lincoln. No Big Deal right? just let it run it's course, if you aren't a terrorist so don't worry about it.
Jan 2 2012 12:25AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I just looked this up and it's the same thing Bush did. I don't see the problem. Just cause he has the power doesn't mean he will use it
Jan 2 2012 12:28AM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
threads
Jan 2 2012 12:32AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Funny how he keeps repeating "My Administration will not and never would use this law to harm any US citizens blah blah" in the addendum.
Jan 2 2012 12:41AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
I'm sorry man, but thats the worst logic I've ever heard.
Jan 2 2012 12:41AM
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crab_pretzel
Posts: 3919 - Karma: 622
HOLY FUCK! i was utterly disgusted for a second
Jan 2 2012 12:41AM
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abathinggrape
Posts: 1228 - Karma: 236
Lol its worse if you only picture the middle pig... see what I mean?
Jan 2 2012 12:43AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
well you tell me what is going to happen as a result of this bill? Is Obama going to imprison everybody who doesn't agree with him?
Jan 2 2012 12:44AM
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BikeMlatt69
Posts: 1947 - Karma: 60
yes
Jan 2 2012 12:49AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Dope
Jan 2 2012 12:50AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
No, I respect Obama and intend to vote for him next election. But the Idea that someone holding a power like this isn't a big deal and is ok because they "probably won't use it" is dangerous and naive. I don't think Obama will abuse it, but that doesn't mean he should have the ability to do this. Implicit trust in the government is just as dangerous as an openly corrupt government.
Jan 2 2012 12:51AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I understand your point but nobody would be stupid enough to actually use this power. If someone did, America would go ape shit
Jan 2 2012 12:53AM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
Threads for win I'm not so high
Jan 2 2012 12:58AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
So would you rather him just let everybody from Guantanomo Bay go free or would you rather him use this bill? Cause that's why he passed it, to keep those guys in jail
Jan 2 2012 1:01AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
I certainly hope America would go ape shit. I just think it's good to question and stand up to the government when some of the powers of the Executive branch have more in common with totalitarian governments than what our own constitution guarantees.

Also, I think if they did this they would make sure nobody heard about it.
Jan 2 2012 1:01AM
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solitaryman
Posts: 3578 - Karma: 123
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Jan 2 2012 1:02AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Nobody would hear about it for sure but would it really be an innocent american citizen or somebody who was actually a terrorist?
Jan 2 2012 1:03AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
BTW, not referring to OP.
Jan 2 2012 1:03AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I'm curious as to what would happen if (when) an American citizen gets arrested or detained through use of this law. If they brought it to court, it'd no doubt end up in the supreme court...
Jan 2 2012 1:04AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Ok. What do you think is going to be the result of this bill being passed? I don't think anything will happen because Bush did the same thing. The news talked about it for 3 days and then everyone forgot about it because it really isn't that big a deal
Jan 2 2012 1:07AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
This seems to be our difference, I try to be cynical about our government. I don't think its worth the chance that they abuse the power.

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" -Benjamin Franklin
Jan 2 2012 1:07AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I'm really cynical about government too, just not about this bill because like i said to woozy Bush did the same thing and nothing happened. Everyone was preparing for a shit storm but nothing happened
Jan 2 2012 1:09AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
When did Bush have the power to indefinitely detain American citizens without trial?
Jan 2 2012 1:09AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
It was in the middle of his presidency. He suspended Habeas Corpus or something and it in effect did the same thing that this bill is doing
Jan 2 2012 1:10AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
From what I've read about this it suspended habeas corpus for "unlawful enemy combatants" and seems specifically meant for foreign terrorist targets (not that this makes it ok, or un-abusable). The law just signed specifically gives the military the right to suspend American citizens.
Jan 2 2012 1:16AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
While the wording is different they give the same power
Jan 2 2012 1:18AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
If you truly believe that kind of thing could happen again without ridiculous amounts of backlash from all over the world and from right here at home, your view of America must be very bleak
Jan 2 2012 1:21AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I'm still reading, so perhaps it's addressed further in the article-

the claim used is that no court has jurisdiction due to the variables involved in guantanamo detainees. (different nationalities, reason for detainment, etc.)

however I question whether that would go by so easily if it was an american citizen who was plucked out of anytown USA.
Jan 2 2012 1:22AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
Not our views of America, our views of government. Detaining an American citizen for the right reasons and with the best of intentions without due process is wrong and should never be supported.
Jan 2 2012 1:26AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
It is wrong and I'm not defending it. I'm just looking at the reality of the situation in which NOTHING will happen
Jan 2 2012 1:30AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I really have no response to this other than you strike me as a very paranoid and pessimistic person and I hope someday you can find peace with the government
Jan 2 2012 1:32AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
For me it's about the principal though. By doing this we're going back on one of our nations founding ideals. I don't care if not one innocent American is ever hurt by this, I won't support the government having the power to do it.
Jan 2 2012 1:33AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
And that is where we differ. I say no harm no foul and you say it's the idea that counts. Thank you for the civil debate
Jan 2 2012 1:34AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Germany under Hitler was a prime example of a totalitarian state. No idea what you're talking about.
Jan 2 2012 1:38AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I feel like it's kind of a gray area. In some ways it is but in others it's not
Jan 2 2012 1:40AM
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Culla
Posts: 323 - Karma: 57
Indeed.
Jan 2 2012 1:41AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
No but your distrust of all forms of government makes me think you're paranoid
Jan 2 2012 1:47AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Plus all your sources are sensationalist pieces or propaganda
Jan 2 2012 1:50AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
This is the kind of response that pisses me off the most. "How will it directly effect me? Oh it probably wont? I dont care then..".

Your innate rights as a human being are being stripped from you. Yet you are too worried about your own trivial little life to give a fuck about something that will greatly affect your country and eventually the way you live.

This WILL affect you, whether it be directly or indirectly, for the record.
Jan 2 2012 1:55AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
See the thing is, I watch a lot of news. Obviously not as much as you but if I don't end up hearing about it, either from a news source or from my dad when I talk to him (cause he watches even more than I do) it probably isn't that big of a deal. You are blowing every little thing out of proportion like you did with the troops coming home from Iraq thread. Nothing is going to happen because of this fucking bill. That is why you are paranoid, because you think something crazy is going to happen. NOTHING WILL FUCKING HAPPEN. That is the point.

Thank you and goodnight
Jan 2 2012 1:58AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Or like the last time this happened when Bush did it, nothing will happen to anybody
Jan 2 2012 2:05AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I was kinda hoping this debate would take off.


oh well.



I don't know enough about the NDAA bill/now law to really throw much out there unfortunately. I'll get back to this after doing some research.
Jan 2 2012 2:07AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
thank you!
Jan 2 2012 2:11AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Thank you very much
Jan 2 2012 2:15AM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
we really need to change our name if the feds are going to continue their never-ending quest for absolute power.

"united states" referred to a loose union of sovereign political entities. the rest of the world uses the word "state" as we use "country." our so-called states are merely provinces these days. states' rights and individuals' rights have fallen to the almighty feds once again.
Jan 2 2012 2:27AM
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