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History

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_TK_
Posts: 467 - Karma: 128
Need some helping answering this question for one of my history papers. If anyone has any 2cents to throw at this it would help greatly! +K

Has the justification for war and the visions of victory changed over time in American history??
Dec 13 2011 7:07PM
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Dhane
Posts: 3866 - Karma: 1,722
i mean, are we still in the middle east?
Dec 13 2011 7:08PM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I'd say they haven't. It's always been to protect the free world and ourselves and the vision of victory has always been to spread democracy and the american way of life. So yeah
Dec 13 2011 7:08PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51644 - Karma: 162,260
Yes. I will reply in a little bit. And I killed it at history in school. One of the few subjects i didn't suck at/hate
Dec 13 2011 7:13PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
Not really. We're essentially doing our best to go manifest destiny all over the Middle East's ass within current UN restrictions.
Dec 13 2011 7:30PM
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_TK_
Posts: 467 - Karma: 128
The main look is at the Vietnam War and such; how the justifications have changed over time and how we are affected as American citizens. The middle east i believe to be a great comparison in the thought of justification, great ideas.
Dec 13 2011 8:15PM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Yeah but again you can argue that our justification in Vietnam was to protect American ideals and interests as we were trying to prevent communism from spreading and the idea of victory was to bring democracy to vietnam
Dec 13 2011 8:18PM
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_TK_
Posts: 467 - Karma: 128
Yeah very true, good thought +K
Dec 13 2011 8:28PM
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_TK_
Posts: 467 - Karma: 128
Bump +k for thoughts, pleeease help
Dec 13 2011 11:15PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
Yes in the old days we fought to preserve our own freedom, but now we fight for others so they can be free.
Dec 13 2011 11:19PM
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,537
A) Some of you need to stop regurgitating what you hear mommy and daddy and your left wing nut of a government teacher and learn on your own.
B) Most of you didn't understand the question it would seem
Dec 13 2011 11:25PM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I didn't see anything in this thread that was left wing
Dec 13 2011 11:27PM
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,537
"Not really. We're essentially doing our best to go manifest destiny all over the Middle East's ass within current UN restrictions."

Anyone who thinks were "doing our best to go manifest destiny all over the middle east" probably isn't educated on current affairs and probably isn't a republican.
Dec 13 2011 11:31PM
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thatsdill
Posts: 107 - Karma: 73
Yes. Look at 'Nam for an example compared to Afghanistan. In 'Nam we went in to protect democracy, stop the domino effect of capitalism. In Afghanistan we went in because of WOMD's that didn't exist, but stayed because of oil, can't even say we are staying because of democracy because we are leaving soon and their democratic system is a pile of shit. Taliban are rigging elections and people are afraid to vote because of shootings at the polls. We used to be about protecting democracy, now America is about protecting itself and its standings as world superpowers because we see ourselves as the purest form of democracy, which is horse shit.
Dec 13 2011 11:33PM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
You can just say that in both cases we were protecting american interests. And we don't see ourselves as the purest form of democracy because we aren't even a democracy. Get learned
Dec 13 2011 11:37PM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
I'll give you that.

What happened to the greatest story ever told part 2?
Dec 13 2011 11:38PM
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thatsdill
Posts: 107 - Karma: 73
You sound worse than Rick Perry would at a Gay Rights convention. Go read a book or two then come talk to me child
Dec 14 2011 12:54AM
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TallerThanThou
Posts: 615 - Karma: 13
In the Civil War, Ulysses Grant was just like, "Fuck it. The Union has more dudes, and more money, and more guns, and more everything... Why are we saving it? Let's just hurl dudes at the Confederacy until we win."

Then the union DID win.

This is an example of how generals and leaders care less about soldiers, then they do about winning quickly.

So that is sort of related.

Dec 14 2011 12:57AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
You do know that America is a Democratic Republic, right? And I'm just saying that you could argue things a lot of different ways. That's the thing about history, you can interpret things any way you want
Dec 14 2011 12:58AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Wow, that's not even close to correct
Dec 14 2011 1:00AM
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*AMILLZ*
Posts: 207 - Karma: 10
I dont really think it has. The US goes to war if we're attacked (the Lusitania sinking of WWI, Pearl harbor in WWII, and 9/11 in the current war on terror), or if democracy is threatened. The latter can be seen from the cold war policy of containment on. Since vietnam victory has changed in that we haven't really had a definitive winner or loser, the US just hasn't completely come out victorious. This could be due to the fact that we haven't actually declared war since before vietnam, however (unclear if whether korea was declared or not).
Dec 14 2011 1:31AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Good points. I think the korean war was declared but it was 15 years before the vietnam war
Dec 14 2011 1:36AM
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*AMILLZ*
Posts: 207 - Karma: 10
I also agree with this. Since the cold war our idea of winning a war seems to have changed into virtually "americanizing" the nation's government we're in. The only way to do that though is if the people in said nation are in favor of the leader we support, which in Vietnam and even before that in China was not the case at all. Cuba is also a good example of this. We initially supported Castro, however when we realized he was a communist we tried to come up with a plan to oust him (bay of pigs). This failed misterably however because the only way to create an uprising against the government of the nation is to have people against the leader of it.


I just finished a 10-pager on Kennedy and the bay of pigs, definitely why I keep mentioning it. /claim
Dec 14 2011 1:39AM
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Aidan-G
Posts: 9415 - Karma: 10,861
Ha i'm working on my ten pager right now but it's about the progessives and the populists. All my papers before this were on the civil and revolutionary wars. I know those wars inside and out
Dec 14 2011 1:42AM
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*AMILLZ*
Posts: 207 - Karma: 10
When has any nation gone to war for anything besides personal interest/national security?
Dec 14 2011 1:46AM
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*AMILLZ*
Posts: 207 - Karma: 10
Yeah I took a class on US/Soviet relations post '45 this semester. It's been brutal. Generally a WWII and colonial guy but undergrad years are for expanding horizons right?
Dec 14 2011 1:49AM
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