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Marker Dukes vs. Salomon Guardian 16

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frostymustache
Posts: 28 - Karma: 17
With the Salomon Guardian 16's coming out next fall, do you guys think it will ultimately beat the Marker Dukes in the race for the best Downhill Alpine touring binding?
Dec 7 2011 12:29PM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
I'm gonna give them at least one year to work out all the kinks. The duke its pretty strong but also heavy. If the Guardian can match the dukes strength and cut weight it may find its place into the market.
Dec 7 2011 12:33PM
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mehregan15
Posts: 780 - Karma: 753
hands down the salomon/atomic is a better binding. lighter, lower profile, and you dont have to take your ski off to switch between the touring and regular modes.
Dec 7 2011 12:47PM
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Aenigma
Posts: 11256 - Karma: 424
I'd be curious to see what the Salomons are like, since Dukes kind of suck for touring.
Dec 7 2011 12:58PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
I'd just like to here a few reasons why you think they suck.


I love my dukes, maybe cause i've been touring on them for the past few years and have gotten used to all the kinks. But ya i love them, the main reason is because they work fine skinning up stuff, and are boss when it comes to sending big shit and them being a strong binding that holds up.
Dec 7 2011 1:09PM
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padski
Posts: 167 - Karma: 318
Maybe Marker have something new to rival salomon.
Dec 7 2011 1:19PM
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Aenigma
Posts: 11256 - Karma: 424
They're heavy and awkward to use, and the heel doesn't have enough lift to go up really steep stuff. Dukes are great for short skins up slackcountry, but I would never put myself through a day of actually touring on them. You kind of have to make a compromise between going uphill and going downhill, but I think they could use some refinement.

But if you're used to them, that is all irrelevant.
Dec 7 2011 1:23PM
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inthewoods
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 111
interesting.
Dec 7 2011 1:53PM
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hawaiiansteeze
Posts: 3255 - Karma: 3,226
anyone use the MFD alltime plates. thinkin bout getting those over dukes or trekkers.

also curious to see how the guardians turn out.
Dec 7 2011 2:02PM
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406
Posts: 2302 - Karma: 92
i have had bad experience with salomon products and will not be buying anything from them, especially their bindings
Dec 7 2011 2:03PM
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arammell
Posts: 117 - Karma: 30
An MFD combo setup is going to be heavier then the Duke. 

Does anyone know what the weight specs are on the Guardian?  It seems like they would be talking more about the weight if they had somehow figured out a way to go lighter and still have the 16 din rating.  Everything I read just talks about the lower profile and heel locks.
Dec 7 2011 2:33PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Weird, I was going to say they're the exact opposite in my experience. Skinning up they aren't optimal but I'm not really bothered by that. The reason I got rid of mine is because I found them to be horrible on the way down. The bindings kept pre-releasing, and when I cranked them down enough to hold me in, they would just snap (plastic). Never before have I been more dubious of a 16-DIN binding when dropping measly 10ft cliffs, and I'm not exactly big (5'8" 150lbs). Plus the stack height just feels gross.
Dec 7 2011 2:36PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
I think what most people don't understand about Dukes/Barons is that they're technically not meant to be a touring specific binding.

They are an alpine binding first and a touring binding second. Great for some short skins up slackcountry but you definitely wouldn't want to do a full day of touring with them. Marker makes a real touring binding for that in the form of the F10 and F12 models.

Dec 7 2011 2:46PM
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LeoSpaceman
Posts: 569 - Karma: 44
so how much touring/skiing have you done on them?
or are you just claiming this because you read a press release about them?
Dec 7 2011 3:19PM
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ctownsend
Posts: 48 - Karma: 166
Here's a little video that might help answer some questions.  This was from a live webcast Tony and I did last Friday in France.  Hit me up if you have any other questions we didn't get to in the vid. 




Dec 7 2011 3:22PM
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padski
Posts: 167 - Karma: 318
its cool you dont have to take your skis off to switch the modes - you just better be good at putting your skins on without taking your skis off too
Dec 7 2011 3:41PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
I think it's funny when people badmouth the Dukes for a touring binding. I have been skiing on Dukes for three years now, going into my 4th as we speak and I love them. Sure, they aren't perfect, but they're the best AT binding I'd ever want under my feet.

Hitting the ski hill hard all day in tracked out conditions, no problem. Doing full day tours in the backcountry, nbd. I am 6'1", 190lbs, and I have very strong legs, not to mention 190 Bibby's under my feet.

The only other touring set-up I've had was Trekkers, and well, they truly suck to the point that I don't wish them upon my enemies. When the toe hight thing breaks, yeah, there's going to be release issues, but if you can find a replacement, I haven't experienced any issues with them on the downhill. Inbounds, slack or back, they are a binding that I fully trust when skiing aggressively.

Of all the skiers I tour with, I'd say 60% of them have Dukes, and there's no real complaints. The only people bitching are usually older who try to strive for the lightest set up out there and really only ski mellow terrain.


As for comparing them to the Guardian's... well, I like the idea that we will now have a choice in our AT binding (if you're looking for something beefy like the Duke that is - or else - just get some Dynafit's). Being able to switch over from uphill to downhill without taking the ski off is something I've always wished the Dukes could do - but how it is done makes me curious because the last thing you need is for your heal to release mid run. I won't be in the market for a new binding for 2 or 3 years as long as shit doesn't break, so it'll be nice to see how everything goes with the Guardian over the next few years.

I've always been a fan of Salomon bindings, so this is sweet news for me.
Dec 7 2011 3:50PM
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mehregan15
Posts: 780 - Karma: 753
none, never said I had any experience on them, that was my humble opinion. but 1. i've been riding dukes for a couple years. 2. i watched the live chat with Cody Townsend and Tony Lamiche and they answered a lot of good questions 3. take the stick out of your ass
Dec 7 2011 3:51PM
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Squaw6
Posts: 469 - Karma: 50
The Dukes are amazing. Have served me well for three seasons. But considering their age, I'd be surprised if the Guardian isn't better.
Dec 7 2011 3:51PM
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LeoSpaceman
Posts: 569 - Karma: 44
you're a tool for advertising, how can you have an opinion on a product you've never even used?

and jesus, i wasn't even being malicious i was just curious. seems like you need to remove the stick from your ass, you mindless drone.
Dec 7 2011 4:16PM
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mehregan15
Posts: 780 - Karma: 753
... im not really sure what to say here. im just stoked on what salomon and atomic have coming out. i also loved my dukes.
Dec 7 2011 4:27PM
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LeoSpaceman
Posts: 569 - Karma: 44
it's just weird you think it's the obvious better binding when you haven't even used it.

hence, you 100% believe everything salomon has told you about it.

it very well may be the better binding, but the only way you'll ever find out is by actually using it, or hearing a review from people that aren't paid to say that it's the best.
Dec 7 2011 4:31PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
missing the point
Dec 7 2011 4:58PM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
haha this
Dec 7 2011 11:28PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3344 - Karma: 5,748
GEAR TALK???

I'm glad this subject is commonplace on NS now with veteran members such as Drail sharing experience. And Cody has been really good at making himself available across the interwebz to talk about new gear.

now onto my comment(s)...

Even though Mike Douglas and Cody T totally back it, I'm not sold on the Guardian's mode switch being behind the heel. Taking my ski off to switch between modes is not really an issue for me. I have toured with dukes 25 of the last 30 days, let alone all the other times over the past three years. I like knowing there is no way to accidentally switch modes going down. I've heard that Marker has a patent on the ski mode switch being under the boot, and it's likely that Salomon had to respect this for the release of the Guardian.

The best news about all this development is simply that binding companies are catering to our demands for easier BC access. Hopefully this technology will only get better [and cheaper]. So far it is def getting more burly. I've predominantly been on Naxos followed by Dukes over the last 8 seasons with a couple random Fritchi days in the middle and some rossi 140's too (somehow I've avoided Dayrekkers). The dukes are my daily bread and butter, but they are far from perfect. For instance, plate track de-icing is a necessary annoyance and the weight is significant. After years of heel dragging, I'm finally taking the dynafit plunge (actually Plum, but same difference) in the coming weeks. I'm not getting rid of anything, just expanding my quiver. My roommate should be able to land a pair of the Guardians by mid-March and I can't wait to try them.

In closing, here's a word of advise to would be AT binding purchasers: don't throw the tried tested and true under the bus before you've been able to experience the new for yourself.
Dec 8 2011 12:57AM
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steezenskis
Posts: 1044 - Karma: 31
i dont do back country, so maybe im wrong, but it seems to me like that doesnt matter. you need to take your skis off anyways to get your skins off your skis.
Dec 8 2011 1:01AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3344 - Karma: 5,748
to put skins on, yeah you have to take skis off. but to rip off skins, it is not necessary with the right equipment and flexibility... as demonstrated on dynafits
Dec 8 2011 1:17AM
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mehregan15
Posts: 780 - Karma: 753
you're right. but if you're just doing some small hikes or traverse's and not using skins, it will be more convenient.
Dec 8 2011 4:47AM
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K.C.Deane
Posts: 1730 - Karma: 315
I hate Dukes. Get the Salomon Guardian, that is where its going to be at.
Dec 8 2011 11:30AM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
Does it have a sliding afd? Adjustable toe height?
Aka, will it be compatible with AT boots?

The tgr thread seems to believe it's not
Dec 8 2011 12:03PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
They do have a patent on it I believe, but we have heard so many complaints on a global scale about having to get out of the binding to switch from ski to tour mode. While this may not be a big deal on a run that only has a steep climb, but when you are in the Alps (for example) and you have a climb, then a descent, then a climb, then a descent, etc having to take your ski off is super annoying.

The Tracker/Guardian is slightly heavier than Duke, but has wider mounting points, wider overall construction, 25mm lower stand height, metal rails & heel construction, adjustable toe height, 2 climbing heights, and metal ski/tour engagement system. As you flex the ski, the engagement system strengthens, it doesn't open- it only gets more secure.

The only way for all of you to know for sure how awesome this binding is, is to personally examine it and ski it. I'm super confident you will be impressed once you get the chance.
Dec 8 2011 12:38PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
Onenerdykid strikes again. Good to know about the weight. That was my biggest question.
Dec 8 2011 1:31PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
It ended up being slightly heavier given that it's wider (more material) and metal (heavier than plastic). But given all of the advantages that it offers over The Duke, the slight weight gain will be forgotten about once anyone uses it.
Dec 8 2011 2:38PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I'll gladly take a heavier binding if it means having metal under my feet. Thanks for sharing.
Dec 8 2011 2:55PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
Me too. The metal on metal hinge is much better. And the wider base
Dec 8 2011 5:59PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3344 - Karma: 5,748
Can't wait to hold them and use em
Dec 8 2011 10:37PM
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AwR
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 1,880
BUMP anybody else wanna chip in?
Oct 2 2012 8:35PM
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ForeverYung
Posts: 8385 - Karma: 2,060
This. I'm looking for a touring binding with the best alpine performance, they tours I will be doing are going to be short, just to get to some fresh, won't be climbing any huge mountains. Will this binding give me the best alpine performance? Other options?
Oct 2 2012 9:54PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
My roommate uses them. After close inspection, I have decided that they are much much nicer than Dukes in both construction and utility.
Oct 3 2012 12:01AM
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AwR
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 1,880
Awesome! i have a few questions when you get a chance. What skis are they mounted on? How often is he spinning/dropping cliffs?
Oct 3 2012 7:42AM
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ForeverYung
Posts: 8385 - Karma: 2,060
Need help prease
Oct 3 2012 10:38PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
ordered mine the other day, beyond stoked.

this binding is going to force marker and other binder companies to step up their game in the a/t market.
Oct 3 2012 11:19PM
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StuckInOhio
Posts: 539 - Karma: 223
Recently ordered a pair to put on some Line Bacons. While some people are going to say "Bacons, why bacons for Guardians?" I decided this because I don't tour much, and if I do have the opportunity to tour I don't want a dedicated setup that is pow only. Bacons will be my daily driver and what I ski the most, and I have 192 Chetlers I didn't even use last season because of school/shitty snow conditions. When inspecting the binding I first noticed how heavy it was. It's heavy, dukeish. I hated dukes with a passion because it was noticeable when skiing how lifted they were, especially if I just wanted to play around the resort. I also realized that when skiing I don't notice weight too much, I just ski. You don't notice the weight until you're on the lift or if you aren't strong enough to deal with it.

It is a REAL solid binding, what I would expect from Salomon. I know people who have used it for an entire season and they all seem to love it, and none of them have had issues with it turning into a tele binding mid-run. The attachment mechanism is metal to metal, real solid and with use I don't see that there would be any play in the binding unless after a lot, and I mean A LOT of use. You would expect issues with heavy multi-season use of most bindings, even FKS bindings, Things break with wear, s*** happens. I see this binding as a great binding to throw on a pow ski or even a daily driver when you don't have the quiver space or money to own multiple pairs. I was real tempted to just take the FKS off my chetlers and put them on the bacons, then to have my chetlers as my "sometimes touring, usually not" pow ski. Either way it will be a great addition to either ski, and I am confident it will. Yes there will always be improvements that could be made to it, but regardless if you are in the market for a duke-like binding that isn't a duke, I would jump on this. They will sell out, I got the second to last small in the northeast (not tooting my horn, making a point).

tl;dr This binding is real solid. If you think it will fit in your quiver of one or of many, jump on this. You won't be disappointed.
Oct 3 2012 11:21PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
in terms of weight:

last year's dukes < this year's dukes < guardians/trackers

not that it's too drastic of a difference, though. when you're in the non-tech market a bit of added weight probably isn't the primary concern. i just grabbed a pair of last year's dukes. why? because they're cheap and i'm new to this jazz (not yet willing to drop the cash on a full tech setup)
Oct 3 2012 11:32PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
After drinkin the koolaid and realizing just how well they ski and needlessly draggin heavy shit uphill is whack
very few go back.
Yo CT Greg Hill gonna be givin up the koolaid this season?
ps I can't believe your a pro
I'm so much a better flyfisherman than you
Click for larger image
Oct 4 2012 11:29AM
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snakerton
Posts: 2434 - Karma: 1,977
are the tracker and guardian the same binding?
Oct 4 2012 11:52AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
Yes, just different colors/graphics. The Tracker/Guardian was a 50/50 collab between Atomic and Salomon.
Oct 4 2012 11:56AM
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zwiefel12
Posts: 173 - Karma: 81
I know the Tracker is to compete with the duke, but what about the Baron? I ususally keep my DIN at 8-10 and will only be doing a few backcounty trips a year. Which is why I was considering the baron, I dont need the DIN of the duke and didnt want to spend the extra money. But with the lower stack height of the tracker/gaurdian got me thinking this would be a better binding for all the time Im not in the backcountry... And this will prob be my set up for a while so Id like something that will last. Any advise?
Oct 4 2012 1:58PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
Tracker/Guardian DIN starts at 7 and with its metal construction it will be super durable and powerful for a long time. So, in terms of longevity and performance and DIN range, it should be at the top of your "what binding" list.
Oct 5 2012 3:07AM
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zwiefel12
Posts: 173 - Karma: 81
Thanks, Im going to be checking them out tomorrow and will decied from there! I figure the weight difference is only like half pound per binding and im not sure that will matter too much for the trips Ill be doing. Thanks for the help.
Oct 5 2012 3:32PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
I wish there was a way to group threads together. There's got to be twenty threads kicking around about touring bindings, each with some decent info.
Oct 5 2012 3:44PM
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