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Critique My Rough Application

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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
Hey NS,

So this winter I am applying to Ryerson for Image Arts. The portfolio has 4 parts, 6 best shots, 6 on a theme, a photo critique, and a resume. I would really appreciate it if you could critique my theme set.

For my theme, I choose to focus on a famous local bar, The Blacksheep Inn. Founded in the 20's, it sits on the river in a small town 45 minutes outside of Ottawa, Canada's capital. This obscure location has hosted some of Canada's best country, folk, blues, and jazz musicians.

Keep in mind that the prof's judging this are part of a fine art institute. They care more about the emotion/thoughts driven by a photo then the technical perfection. A lot of the weight of this assignment is the writing, which I have yet to do. You are being judged on the set as a whole, not each image individually, the shots should compliment each other. Keep in mind this is a rough draft, I plan on going back multiple times to ensure its perfect.

Personally I feel that the set starts out strong, it leads in, but then its just ends. I'm going to have to go back and get a closing image. What thats going to be, I have a few ideas.

My other comment is that Graeme (hollygrove), who is in the program, told me. He said that it might be a better idea to focus on a concept for your theme as apposed to a place/event. I have a second idea in the works, it focuses on depth/lines and how they affect your image. I should have a rough draft of that for you guys to look at in the next few weeks.

Here's the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zackbarwin/sets/72157628297901001/


Sparknotes: What do you think of the set, click the link.

Thanks,
Zack.
Dec 6 2011 11:12AM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
BTW I know these are very over-contrasted. I am in the process of re-editing. I was talking to a friend and he gave me some tips for B&W.
Dec 6 2011 7:16PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
looks cool, im not one to critique photography :P ...but my fav is the first one!
Dec 6 2011 7:58PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
and good luck man!
Dec 6 2011 7:58PM
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west-coast
Posts: 985 - Karma: 204
I have no clue how to critique photographer either, but those were pretty sick! I think they might be a little too plain and dark but then again I have no clue what I'm talking about its just my opinion.
Dec 6 2011 11:45PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
from a fine art/street photog perspective, some of them are nice, good contrast and the light sets a good tone, maybe a tad bit more noise to give a more film look

from my personal style perspective, none of them are very sharp, which might not bug some, but does me
Dec 7 2011 12:50AM
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gordie.
Posts: 2014 - Karma: 84
Ryerson is a terrible school IMO. My threads for later though
Dec 7 2011 11:39AM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
Care to explain.
Dec 7 2011 12:16PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,246
at first i thought they were kind of boring images by themselves, but then i realized it was a set/story kind of. Not bad overall, but i agree with Thomas that they could have been a bit sharper.
Dec 7 2011 10:14PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
The fourth photo is absolutely beautiful. Really impressive, I saw great textures, tonal range, and movement. It really stood out for me.

From a conceptual perspective, a canadian jazz joint might be a little dry. Material wise. That is just my opinion though, I would have chosen something with more defined culture/spirit. Music is a pretty broad ocean to express through a photograph, and lets be fair, geographically its pretty uninteresting. Maybe draw from something commonplace/nonchalant, but again, with strong underlying defined characteristics.

Toronto is a cool city, I'm sure you will like it there.
Dec 7 2011 10:56PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
Thanks guys, +k to all (unless your already maxed out).
Dec 7 2011 11:02PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
I know nothing about photography so I can't help much.



But one thing I noticed: Don't try too hard to sound formal or sophisticated. You say "This relaxed, though unpretentious, bar..." It's pretty safe to assume that a bar that is relaxed isn't going to be pretentious, that's a given. Just a little thing to watch out for, you wouldn't want to sound like you're trying to use words that you don't know the meaning of.
Dec 7 2011 11:05PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
I took that out. Thanks.
Dec 7 2011 11:14PM
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Trojan~Man
Posts: 1996 - Karma: 1,357
im enjoying this thread, because its actually full of excellent feedback. ...felt compelled to share that thought :P
Dec 8 2011 11:56AM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
I'm curious as to what gordie. has to say concerning why Ryerson is a terrible school. I know he applied to film at both Ryerson and York, and ended up at York, he might just be saying that because the (kind of) rivalry between the two programs. Also all three of the "Image Arts" program are very separate, New Media, Film, Photography. I've talked to some upper years in the film program who have been kind of skeptical in their program at Ryerson. I've never heard anything negative about the Photography program from the upper years.

I know one person suggested adding some grain to the images, and maybe its just my personal opinion, but digital gran looks TERRIBLE. I recommend staying away from it, but like i said, thats just always been my preference.

I'm really enjoying how each of the photo's compliment each other, the harsh black and white's makes the series very united, and I think thats a great thing. Excited to see what you put together for your other 6 images!
Dec 8 2011 12:06PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
This right here. Digital is not film, as much as you can replicate it, a digital grain will never look as good as the real thing. Same goes for film burns, harsh colours, and all the other things I love about shooting film.

Also God. thanks a ton, I actually like harsh feedback, its a lot more helpful than someone saying "thats so sick!" because I can take away and build from it.

Honestly at the end of the day, Photography is an art, everyone has their own opinions, I have to 100% satisfied with the work that I submit and right now, I'm not. I feel there is something missing from this set, but I'm having trouble figuring out what that is, hence why I maid this thread.
Dec 8 2011 2:03PM
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joris.blanc
Posts: 914 - Karma: 6,584
Soo, I would love to help you but pictures that aren't about skiing I have a hard time knowing what is good and what isn't !!!! But I'm gonna do my best find out what I like and like less in your pics !!!

For the first pic: I think it is one of my favorite one of the set. Try as someone said to use a longer exposure with a tripod and if there is a road next to the bar maybe try to get the light trail from a car could be nice or maybe just someone walking!!!

Pic nb 2 : At a first look it looks kinda blurry (not a lot) and I find that there is missing a central thing to look at something that stands out !!!

Pic nb 3 : I find that it has something special about it I would just take the parasol that is in the background out of the pic.

Pic nb 4 : I'm not really a fan of it, but I have no idea what to say about it sorry, there is missing something but I don't know what !!!

Pic nb 5 : I like it, but I think you could try and have the guitarist on a side of the pic and have a bit more of the crowd !!!

Pic nb 6 : Same thing as the 5 but the nb6 doesn't feel as lively as the 5th.

There this is my point of view (I could be totally wrong about all that said :P, I?v never attended a photography class )

Hope this helps you and, good luck for your entry !!!
Dec 8 2011 3:16PM
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rocMALONEYphotos
Posts: 1128 - Karma: 661
the set looks really good.. i would suggest trying to capture a little more emotion in the musicians. If that is your focus then i would say capture more emotions in the photos.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/zackbarwin/6462929363/in/set-72157628297901001/
that is my favorite photo in the set! keep up the good work man!
Dec 8 2011 4:40PM
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gordie.
Posts: 2014 - Karma: 84
You're right on man. I did apply to both-- I'll quickly outline why Ryerson is lacking in some respects, in my opinion. Ryerson typically has a habit of treating students pretty poorly. York isn't much better, but the film program faculty/administration is stronger (aka I can go to them instead of just the general student administration for any help or concerns).

Secondly, Ryerson grads tend to, and I know I'm generalizing here, but I have plenty to support it, act as though they have little to learn and are already at the "top of their game" when they are, in fact not... not many people leaving their undergrad are. I've worked (I freelance as a videographer and photographer on occasion) with many professionals, from paid professionals on film sets to other videographers, to some well known photographers, who have all told me the same thing: they don't like working with Ryerson grads, and even go so far as to try to NOT work with them. Photographer David Morris once told me that he would reject grads from Ryerson who tried to work for him as assistants because they have nothing to learn and think they know it all.

Coming from the film side of things, I've heard their terrible to work with on set. Basically, Ryerson is a great school for some things, but it really suffers in a few other areas. The film program, compared to york, is less hands on, with less/worse equipment and a (debatably) worse faculty. Ryerson somehow has a rep that it is "Canada's Art School" but a lot of people, who actually work in the arts, will tell you otherwise.

All that being said, I've heard great things about their New Media program. It's supposed to be fantastic, but if you were to ask me for an honest answer, which photography program produces better grads, that of Ryerson or that of Sheridan, I'd have to answer Sheridan. That being said, Ryersons photography program is HUGELY selective and does produce some amazing grads, along with a couple rotten apples. If you or anyone does choose to go to Ryerson, please, please, stay humble, take advice with a grain of salt, and don't proclaim you're the best arts school our country has to offer. It's all what you make of it really.

I know it sounds like I'm hugely biased here because I chose York, but it was precisely all these reasons compiled, coupled with my own first-hand experiences of their terrible administration, that led me to choose my school. York's campus may suck sometimes, but it still has (in my opinion) the best practical, hands-on, BFA film degree in Canada. I hope all that helped and sorry for writing so much!!!
Dec 8 2011 7:48PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
Re-edits/crops posted on my website. What do you guys think? I tried to lower the contrast on these and brighten a few of them up. My only concern is that the editing doesn't flow as well, while the shots look better individually, they flow oddly as a whole. I tried taking the umbrella out, but the masking just wasn't working, the texture in the water and trees are just too fine to replicate. I did take out #6, I just don't have that final image to wrap up the set right now, maybe I'll go back this weekend.

Link:
http://zbphoto.ca/blacksheep/
Dec 8 2011 10:51PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
I'm going to be honest - They look just a lot like snapshots from a couple nights of concerts.

I think the first thing you need to do is write up a list of shots that you want. It will be equally important to look at the situation, and take it into consideration, and react once you get there... but you should at least have an idea of what you want to focus on.

If you want to include the shot of the outside, go there and spend an hour working on composition. If you want to have a shot of a concert, go to a couple and shoot a bunch - take the best one.

I think if you are trying to tell some sort of story here, you should focus on the history of the place and what makes it what it is. Then look at how people interact or react to those characteristics. Look at it from all angles, and decide what's going to be the most interesting, and go for it.

If you like the shots you have, I would go for one of the outside, one of the crowd, one of the crowd and band, one of the band or performer specifically, and then figure out some other ideas to fill in the gaps. Just make sure it's relevant - adds to the story rather than just more of the similar photos.
Dec 12 2011 12:10AM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
re-threads.
Dec 23 2011 12:13PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
Okay, well the deadline is Feb. 2nd and I just finished my 6 best and 6 on a theme for Ryerson. I scrapped the black sheep idea and chose to focus on depth instead, its a more artistic idea and to me it fits the requirements of the portfolio better. Their not perfect, but its the idea that the prof's focus on, not the composition of each photo. For my top 6 I tried to choose a diverse group of photos, compositionally wise their not my best, but they capture my creativity well.

Check it out, a lot of these have been re-edited, but you get the idea.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zackbarwin/collections/72157628297860445/
Jan 23 2012 9:49PM
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chacharlie
Posts: 228 - Karma: 20
Well all but one of your "depth" focus are of leading lines converging in parallax. That's a very common representation of depth but I think there are lots of other ways to approach it, which would better demonstrate your range of creative perspective.
Jan 24 2012 3:43AM
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ironic
Posts: 735 - Karma: 104

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zackbarwin/6681484495/in/photostream/

Pretty cool, just saying.

Jan 24 2012 3:19PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
@chacharlie: The leading lines/endless photograph is where I was going with it. Getting a photo like that perfect takes a lot of work and almost flawless composition. To me, it shows my good sense of composition. Each photo took a really long time, both planning ahead (locations) and shooting.

@ironic: Thanks, thats on of my favourite photo's i've ever shot. Its funny that it came out better on print than all the rest which were shot on DSLR's in raw, that one was on a $200 compact, jpeg...
Jan 24 2012 3:35PM
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Bmo.
Posts: 4907 - Karma: 2,667
that picture is absolutely incredible
Jan 24 2012 10:46PM
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