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Who is at fault for bad ski mags?

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albatross.
Posts: 4380 - Karma: 772
Yeah, i was looking over the march 04 freeze where every single shot (like all freezes and ski mags) was from ski movies released in sept 03. The only times we get new shots is the first mag of the year because it comes out before the movies.

Then I realized all the advertisements were old too - which struck me as odd. Freeze doesnt make the advertisements too, so why are they old. This leaves two possibilities - either freeze and the ad comanies are lazy asses, or the movie companies are hording all thier footage and not giving any new shots up.

I know for one thing, that part of the reason is freeze being a bunch of lazy asses. Why not hire a few photographers to set up days with pros (there are alot of pros now, it shouldnt be hard) and get some new shots to put in the mag? There are about 3 new shots in each mag (mainly trick tips), so why not get a few more photographers going and try and get at least 80% new footage. You cant tell me thats bad for business, because more people would buy the mag if it wasnt the same old shit.

What i dont understand is how even the advertisements are old - snowboard mags have advertisements that usually have shots from movies that have yet to come out for a while (aka the jerksen pro model ad in snowboarder), and articles from unreleased movies (the article on chads gap from POP by absinthefilms). Are L1P and PBP holding out on us? How come they cant give up footage and snowboard movies can?

I want some answers kids.
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Afterlame, fall 04
Watch The Scanners! Its unreal
Aug 26 2004 11:19PM
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DENALI44
Posts: 973 - Karma: 19
damn jib monkeys are at fault for liking such shit in their mags like rails and what not and monkey skiing. shame on you jib monkeys, go back to your fuckin zoo.


Believing in jesus is like believing in santa claus, once you reach a certain age you realize that it's all made up
Aug 26 2004 11:20PM
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Insane_skier
Posts: 37 - Karma: 10
I highly recomend professionally done magazines such as; Powder, Ski, Skiing and many others which are made by expierenced worksman.

Aug 26 2004 11:25PM
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DENALI44
Posts: 973 - Karma: 19
ok putting ski and skiing in the same category as Powder, you should be shot


Believing in jesus is like believing in santa claus, once you reach a certain age you realize that it's all made up
Aug 26 2004 11:27PM
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albatross.
Posts: 4380 - Karma: 772
^SKI, SKI CANADA, and powder are all in the same leauge.
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Afterlame, fall 04
Watch The Scanners! Its unreal
Aug 26 2004 11:30PM
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airic
Posts: 720 - Karma: 16
Good point...
There needs to be more private shoots for a start
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-Airic
Aug 26 2004 11:32PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
You're making the mistake of thinking that everyone pays as much attention to what's going on in the ski world as people like you and I do. The vast, vast majority of readers of these magazines have no clue when the shots were shot, and they don't care.

Also, the time frames in producing a magazine make it difficult to include fresh shots. You're sending off your finalized pages to the printers at LEAST several weeks before the mag is actually distributed; if you're on your game you'll have your shit out two months before that magazine ever sees a newsstand.

Stacie: 'Aren't you going to open your gift?'
Wayne: 'If it's a severed head, I'm going to be very upset.'
Aug 26 2004 11:33PM
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sim
Posts: 1399 - Karma: -6
shitty?


signatures are for pussies
Aug 26 2004 11:33PM
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albatross.
Posts: 4380 - Karma: 772
kami, then how does snowboarder pull it off? and it doesnt explain the ads. Salmon has new shots of dirksen in thier ads, yet thier skiing ads are from old ski movies. The dirksen shot is from an unreleased snowboard movie. Ski film companies HAVE to be holding out on us.
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Afterlame, fall 04
Watch The Scanners! Its unreal
Aug 26 2004 11:37PM
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PocketRocketRipper
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 9
Freeze isn't exactly the pinnacle of ski journalism... I know for a fact that Powder has articles every year about ski expeditions and such that haven't been in movies yet (when they can, of course)

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Aug 27 2004 12:20AM
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SteveXs2
Posts: 7922 - Karma: 40
1) Never put Powder in the same league as Ski and Skiing, never, ever, ever, ever.

2) They don't hire photographers, they have a couple staff photogs but the rest of the shots are taken by freelance photographers who submit their photos to the mag & get paid for each photo that's published.

3) Never put Powder in the same league as Ski and Skiing, never, ever, ever, ever.


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shamesmountain
Aug 27 2004 12:57AM
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skihillraod
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 45
I am glad it is made in CO, they are getting better with their own stuff did you see mercon at invesco and high five (level1) and freeze shot in dtown (headlines) I like it more so far but like you said the first issue always comes through.
'3030'
Aug 27 2004 12:57AM
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freelowda
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 1,583
Ace of Spades - if you're referring to the 'old' shot of CR in the new salomon ad, its actually new...from an msp whistler shoot this spring.
But having the same material in movies and mags has been an old problem. Snowboard mags are not exempt from this either. The mags dont revolve around what footage goes in ski movies, and vice versa. They are not going to Not run a sick shot just because that same thing came out in a ski movie in september. When theres a shoot going on with a publishable skier...you bet there will probably be a still and film guy there to cover it, its just how it goes. Its obviously great when there is some unique shots in mags and movies that arent in the other medium. But the worst is when a mag sequence is shot from the Same angle as a clip in a video. Basically its better when filmers and photogs make their angles and shots unique when shooting the same material. And it is definatly lame when companies publish played out ads again and again. But dont blame all the problem on the magazines. And as kamikaze said, much of the reading public doesnt notice or stress about these kinds of things.
Aug 27 2004 1:15AM
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freelowda
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 1,583
Also... i would love to see more content involving film trips and sessions (ie those snowboard articles). the problem is NOT the film companies 'holding out'. unfortunatly some ski mags have their own different agendas,and politics, and freeze usually just publishes most shots from their staff photogs. there is obviously much more room to expand with fresher content ideas and articles/shots. It does seem that the Snowboard mags coming out these days have much more rad ideas and material...and are much more inspiring. hopefully the ski mags will catch up to that caliber as our sport grows.
Aug 27 2004 1:27AM
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cko
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 32
Magazines tend to work on a fairly strict editorial schedule, that means that what they print is planned way in advance. That's why mags should focus on unique angles for stories and event coverage, not just the same shit every single year that you've already seen online. One day the mags will get it and actually make an effort to differentiate themselves from the online markets. Right now they have the budgets to make it happen but they don't - for some reason. Frat boy mentality 101.



it's all very exciting.
Aug 27 2004 1:54AM
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kjfreerider
Posts: 2495 - Karma: 14
there just holding out cuz they started small and had to use old photos and stories in there mag so now if they upgraded to content that is going on say in the previous month as suposed to the previous yr we would all miss out on an entire season of stuff. and they cant afford to let all those old photos and ads go to waist now can they?



Member Since 2003-01-15
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dont get it twisted
Aug 27 2004 3:55AM
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goodguysfriend
Posts: 572 - Karma: 10
i was to lazy to read what you wrote or what anybody else wrote, but the people at fault for bad magazines would be who ever buys them.
Aug 27 2004 8:46AM
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mtbakerskier
Posts: 439 - Karma: 54
This entire thread makes me laugh my ass off at all of the peeps here that talk like they know how everything works in the ski industry when they dont ahve a clue at all.

1. Powder is the best
2. Sbc, Freeskier, and european mags come next

As for mag content, try reading a magazine that is produced by a bunch of brobrahs, you will get much more variety. Magazines are publsihed and printed in the summer, the last issue, the spring issue is always finshed in November, so no matter what all of the images in magazines are going to be at least a year old. Most times when a photog is out shooting it is usally jsut them and a small crew of athlets, ussually htere isnt even a filmer, but most shots in the magazines are simular to movie shots since, magazines dont pay that much,and it is easier / cheaper for a photog to tag along with a film crew that already has a solid crew of athletes versus, finding there own. And finally there is no excuse for still photogs to use the same angle when shooting as the movie guys, When this happens it is almost always do to an uncreative filmer / photog that doesnt have the skills to find there own angle.


www.GrantGunderson.com
Theory-3 Media
Aug 27 2004 10:21AM
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mtbakerskier
Posts: 439 - Karma: 54
oops, ment to say try reading a magazine that isnt produced by a bunch of brohbrahs.
www.GrantGunderson.com
Theory-3 Media
Aug 27 2004 10:22AM
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albatross.
Posts: 4380 - Karma: 772
Im under the impression some of you didnt read this. I never blamed ANYONE, i was asking questions. And i still have no answers.

SteveXS2 - powder is pretty much in the same league as ski and ski canada. On the same subject, i mean hiring more staff photographers. You have to hire staff right? Thats what i thought.

Freelowrida- a) snowboard mags are 90% exempt from old shots. I saw every snowboard movie at the beginning of the season, and saw very few shots in snowboarder mag. I did the same with ski movies, and saw the same shots over and over again in the mags.

As for the rest of your arguement. do you even read ski mags and watch all the ski movies? Everything else you wrote is just way off.

I still dont have my answers.
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Afterlame, fall 04
Watch The Scanners! Its unreal
Aug 27 2004 4:07PM
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mtbakerskier
Posts: 439 - Karma: 54
Well ACE,
First off ski mags do not employ any 'staff' photogs but htey do have senior photogs that get priority treatment. Ski photogs are freelance, meaning htey run there own businesses, and sell shots to whoever will buy them. Therefor it is stupid to asume that the photogs are only going to sell a shot once, and not try to resell it again to a diferent place, IE sell the photo as a ad after selling it to a magazine. Also snowboard photogs do the EXACT same thing. You just dont notice it as much since there is a lot more $$$ in snowboarding, and because of that htere are a lot more snowboard photogs shooting the same stuff but more creativly.

Finally POWDER is not in hte same class as ski canada or ski, or skiing or any other magazine. Powder is the place that most ski photogs send there best stuff to first since POWDER is known for running the best photos in the industry, just beacue they dont run the same over shot jib shit as everyother mag is no reason to classify them together with ski canada or ski or skiing. Powder is completly different.
www.GrantGunderson.com
Theory-3 Media
Aug 27 2004 8:08PM
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PocketRocketRipper
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 9
I think if there was anyone here who knows their shit, it would be mtbakersker

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Aug 27 2004 8:55PM
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freelowda
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 1,583
ace buddy, believe me, i share several of your complaints about the state of our ski mags lately. i am also involved with the little industry that is ski movie making, and you bet i watch/read more than my share of movies and mags (both ski and snowboard). most still photographers are pulling teeth to make a living selling ski shots, and the mags are trying to to hook up the content in short timeframes. i love mags...so i hope and think they will improve.
Aug 27 2004 9:34PM
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albatross.
Posts: 4380 - Karma: 772
MtBaker, since you are one of my favourite photographers you definitley know more about the shooting part and you have a few points, but your wrong on the snowboarding side.

Its not the same shots on different angles, its different shots taken from the current season of pros who have major parts in big movies.

Ski magazines have the same shots from the same (and sometimes different angles) from the previous season that can all be seen in the movies (i cant stress enough how weak that is).

Powder is the best for turning out new shots, so i was wrong to say ski mags in general. How about ski mags based on newschool (freeze, freeskier).

My question is sort of answered, but it still doesnt explain why we dont get shots from new movies that are unreleased during the season, like in snowboard mags.

I still want answers!
(Thanks for the replys so far guys)
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Afterlame, fall 04
Watch The Scanners! Its unreal
Aug 28 2004 12:36AM
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ninthward
Posts: 161 - Karma: 10
i hope it will all change, at ninthward we are stoked to push younger skiers to the spotlight, as alot of new companies, we fell that doing this will broaden the base of skiing, also the need for more photographers, filmers, artists, etc..that will drive a new creative field, i think mags will run shots if they are good, keep sendin stuff in, if not start your own thing, the more stuff to choose from the bigger this whole thing gets, and as far as private shoots go, nothing is more private than a jump or jib only your homies know about
Aug 28 2004 2:44AM
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mtbakerskier
Posts: 439 - Karma: 54
Ace, thanks for the props, but, as far as snowboarding goes Frequency is one of my biggest clients, and they always try to esure that they get fresh shots, but even in that mag it isnt uncommon to have shots that are simular to vids, for the same reason that ski mags run simular shots to ski movies, there is only so much money in the industry photogs have to sell there stuff to whomever is willing to buy, plus in addition, even the best pros in the industry nail there trick of the air once a season, and it is this hte creame of the cream that the mag want to run. There are so many variables that even if the photog nails the shot ,it doesnt mean that the athlete nailed it. The same goes for film/ The top film makers only want to run the best example of a athletes best trick smae as the magazines, since this is so hard to acomplish, it is not uncommon for sim shots to apear in magazines and viedo. And yes snowboarding is the same way, but it isnt as noticable do to the number of people filming it. If you look at my shots you will be hard presed to find a simular image in a mag since i do most of my filming independtly, but i am one of the exceptions most photogs film with film companies since the film companies provide the budget for shoots and proviede the athltes, wich is also why most of the athlets that i shoot are unkown, and do not have a budget for filming. There are lots of un noknown up and coming rippers out there, but not a lot of photgos to document htem, since all of hte money in the industry is based around the sports uber rock stars.
www.GrantGunderson.com
Theory-3 Media
Aug 28 2004 2:52AM
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freelowda
Posts: 1311 - Karma: 1,583
Frequency. now thats an inspiring publication. well worth the $14 cover price i'd say.
Aug 28 2004 3:48AM
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the-east-isnt-that-bad
Posts: 1983 - Karma: 6
Well for me, the biggest thing holding me back is stuff like availability and originality of pictures and copyright laws. Out of about 100 different pictures and graphics in my first issue only around 30 of them were taken by my photographers and about 20 were custom graphics designed and generated by me and some others, which means that I had to go and find 50 other pictures to put in that I didn't own and so had no control over. That's the biggest pain in the ass for me because i don't have too many connections yet so getting people to let me put their pics in is kinda tough...


On my way to goddom
Aug 28 2004 12:03PM
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the-east-isnt-that-bad
Posts: 1983 - Karma: 6
Oh yeah, my point is that when you cant get new pictures than you have to settle for old pictures.

However, a good magazine will have an amazing article to go with the pictures and so the pictures just help the article instead of the article helping the pictures...


On my way to goddom
Aug 28 2004 12:05PM
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monkeysteez
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 99
jesus denali is harsh
Aug 28 2004 12:06PM
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PocketRocketRipper
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 9
^harsh, but true

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Aug 28 2004 12:48PM
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