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March, 2025

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Official Ski Pressing/Shaping/Building/Constructing Thread

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NinetyFour
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All of us have thought about building your own shit at one time or another, but how many of you actually have? This thread will be dedicated to those who actually build your own gear from scratch, surely there are some of you on NS. Now I can't contribute to this thread much because I've never built anything and I only have a small amount of time working with fiberglass, but would sure love to see some info from you dudes who actually do, whether you build in your basement, or for a living. So if you can legitimately contribute please do.
14 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,856
http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=5

Just posted a bigger sale thread in here if anyones interested.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
Sick man, always been curious, although I am going the press route, it's just such a man toy to have the press.

And ginko, any details on the size of a box that VDS rubber roll would fit into? Apparently I have to convince my old man that shipping it wouldn't be an enormous cost to my personal bank account... The joys of still being 17 and living at home. Aha thanks for putting up with my ridiculousness.

Anyways a quick little update, even though my old man drives me nuts, he does give me opportunity which I love. I work at the family business and we manufacture and sell fiberglass airplane fairings on the side (we normally fix airplanes) Anyways, the parts are molded out of the shop by our fibreglass guy, then they come to the shop were myself or my dad trim the mold flashing off of the parts. For our wheel fairings there is a top and a bottom portion, and for them, we have to bond them together with fibreglass strips. So my dad being the man that gives people opportunity, and him knowing what I was getting into with ski building let me do the full bonding layup process today by my big boy self (usually I just roll the air out of the glass and clean up the brushes, containers, etc...) and it went extremely well for my first time. It's killer having to wet the matt outside of the fairing, book it, then slide it inside of the faring and positioning it without tearing it while it's wet, but that didn't happen, and the parts look great. Stoked on having something to practice laying stuff up with!


13 years ago
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,087
Ha. I guarantee that there's way more money in airplane parts than skiing. Maybe Scott should start laying up airplane parts on the side.

That's awesome you've got a chance to practice.
13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
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It's $10, but I think the last roll already sold.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Not a problem. Aha an yeah Literature, there's decent money in airplane parts. Last year though I did a project with the company, and did all of the production and assembly drawings to get a new set of parts approved. That was so much work for such a tiny thing.
13 years ago
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jaredmdub
Posts: 2229 - Karma: 564
Threads again.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Ok so a quick little update. Haven't done much lately been busy with school and work and figuring out some prices, sizes and other logistics behind building the press. So because It was raining outside and I had nothing to do, I thought I would draw up a press. I spent the whole afternoon on the plan for the press, but here is what I ended up with:

Click for larger image

Just a sketchy little Isometric view I made in MS Paint. Not all of the drawings are in proportion with each other, but It gives you a good look at the whole press frame. The whole press is just over 4 feet tall (without wheels, It will be on some big wheels for convenient moving) The blue pieces in the picture are my four I-Beams (8x10" as planned, the top pieces and bottom pieces will be stitch welded together) the green pieces are my end frames made from C-Channel (6" as planned, they will be all welded together, and then stitch welded to the top set of I-Beams to tie the whole thing together) The red piece in the drawing is a section of C-Channel that will be welded to the bottom I-Beams (this guy will be sitting on top of bottle jacks so that I can raise and lower the bottom mold to make loading cassettes easier, it will also have 4 cold rolled steel pins to hold it in place while the press is under pressure on both sides) the yellow things are mach bottle jacks, and the wood colored things are exact copies of my molds. Quite abit to read but It gives you a detailed Idea of how the whole press should work (lets pray the real deal does) The real press will also not be as precise as this guy, I assume that the 8x10" beams and 6" channel will be slightly larger.

Thoughts or opinions on the press design? Anyone have a simple FEA testing program that I could throw this in to? +K or some positive picture ratings for helpful advice.

Thanks again to everyone who's helping me out!
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
Awe yeah. Me and dad went halfway on a used planer that needed a new pulley (one that's no longer on the market, were machining one probably as you read this) also needed some new bushings, which we've already machined. The planer with a few spare blades and other parts cost us $80. Pretty nice looking unit. Will look even better after we've fixed it's few little issues. Glad that I won't have to build a router bridge to do cores.

Click for larger image


13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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you talk about shipping being insane compared to europe. i carted up the stuff and the shipping was almost 3x the price of the materials to ship to europe for me which sites in europe did you find? as im looking to build some skis as a summer project next year but not looking to break the bank over it on shipping, the uk fucking sucks (for reasons in rant for another day)
13 years ago
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,087
Those bottle jacks are pretty cool. Seems like the only worry with all that is obviously the strength and alignment with the whole thing being able to open like that.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Ok first off to Chaz; Yeah shipping to Canada is really decent. Shipping across the pond to Europe would be expensive though, no doubt. Haven't really found any European dealers for materials though, if I've seen a European based site, I would have just disregarded it right away and kept going on my search. Good luck finding some stuff though, if you get building, post up!

And Literature, pretty sure I forgot to mention that the lower portion of the press will have 1-1/4 inch cold rolled steel pins to hold the lower portion of the press in place. I'll have to sleeve the holes in the C-Channel and get some good welds to hold the I-Beams in the press properly. I'll have 8, 1-1/4 inch pins in total (pretty sure my math worked out that 8 would leave a larger buffer on the shear strength of the pins under load, maybe should check my calcs again.......) It will be pretty convenient.

As far as material goes for the press, I scored 28 feet of steel 6 inch C-Channel for a few hours of riveting on a guys airplane. Stoked on that, it looks good. Just has some square tubing on the side that needs to be knocked off (just tacked on) and a few holes in it, but they won't be any sort of critical weakness. Still waiting to figure out to see if I can find my desired size of I-Beam (8x10, thin web) I was talking to a steel dealer the other day, the guy over the phone claimed they had some 8x10 weighing in at 25lbs/foot which was ideal, got there, and they didn't...... Still searching, hopefully I'll have some beam by the weekend

For those who have commented "Threads" here is some inspiration :D Pretty cool video, sick to see where we started and how far we've come. Great lookin skis Pollard!




13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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Since posting i found a site for materials http://www.skibaumarkt.de/ its all in german (not sure if there is a site language change) but chrome translated most of it. From that i managed to cost it and a pair is looking like ~£200 of materials. What nice about this site is they sell cores and will do specific woods if you ask. They have less base material colour choice but whatever. I have a question about using veneers as a design under topsheet (and possibly base) would it just be a case of epoxying it up and laying it up between your top composite layer and your clear topsheet material? Would you need to do anything to the veneer in term of coating etc? Would woodstaining it effect the epoxy aswell?
13 years ago
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Suusataja
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Oh my.. that video was awesome, super inspirational, also that last POV cliffdrop gave me goosebumps.
13 years ago
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DrZoidberg
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I would think you could just throw the veneer in between some glass and the topsheet material, but I am not sure.

I've heard many people say oil based stains will weaken bonds to composites since they close the pores of the wood, and the strength of the bond is related to the epoxy soaking into the pores or something. I've also heard a water based stains can be used or that there is some technique to doing it right. I know people dye wood with RIt or similar dyes mixed with a variety of things, I'm not sure how that affects bond strength though.
13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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thanks i was also wondering about press design. would a press which works on putting the laid up skis in a top and bottom mould then having pressure applied through plates which are held down by flat ended screws which were mechanically drove down and held by bolts work. im not sure if it would apply enough uniform constant pressure. if you dont get what i mean i will do a paint doodle if you want.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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So I found this on finishing a board with a veneer topsheet:

http://www.happymonkeysnowboards.com/MonkeyWiki/File:Veneer_Finishing15.JPG

Also I think ON3P is going to maybe have a wood veneer topsheet option for some of their skis next year, but I can't be too sure. I'd also say that the ON3P guys wood (sorry I had to) enlighten us on their topsheets, but by the looks of things, it's a secret of the trade.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/237660-2012-2013-ON3P-SIA-Photos-and-Discussion/page9

I can see why though, it looks hellishly difficult to do. The veneer topsheet is definitely something to experiment with if you have the time and money Chaz. They look sooooo good, and wood just looks so pure. My model of my house that I designed in drafting was finished in wood, looked great, had that "Mountain" feel to it.

Take a scroll through the whole thread though. Scott and the boys look like they're trying some wicked awesome things. The skis with the hole in them? Pretty wicked and radical, glad to see that someone is trying crazy stuff like that.

Zoidberg, back to the subject of vacuum forming, you should consider giving it a shot. It may not press at extremely high pressures, but It will still work well. It also pretty much guarantee's a good press in the tips, the bag conforms to the tips and tails really well from what I've heard, something that the pneumatic firehose press can have difficulties with if your molds aren't built the best.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
I think I know what you mean, but I'm not totally sure. A picture would help some. If it's something along the lines of a skateboard press where the top and bottom molds are identical, I don't think that would work because the skis core tapers unlike a skateboard. It might work if you had a thick piece of rubber on the top mold to conform to the skis tapering core.

Click for larger image


13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,856
It would have to be a clever and well built press. Hoses inflate uniformly, and inflate quickly and consistently. One of the big things you fin out on your first home-built pairs is how essential it is for everything to go smoothly once the epoxy hits the ski, spend too much time dicking around with getting the press down and half your ski could be cured before it gets any pressure.
13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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the epoxy has a 45 min pot life, i dont know how that correlates to cure time (or is that cure time) but here is a paint doodle of my press concept idea.
it works but having a base mould shaped to the base profile and a set of top pieces to the desired top mould (with possibly rubber in between) which is in a metal frame. then on the top mould goes a board with holes through it and nuts inserted flush into the board and then a another board fixed on top of that with holes in the desired places. this double board is held at a fixed height to the metal frame and then there are threaded bolts which are inserted through the double boards to hold down the top mould pieces. so you would have your base mould in the frame, lay up the ski(s), (lay the rubber on the ski(s),) put in your top mould pieces, slide your double board between the fixed height points, then have a person on each end with a screw driver/ motorised car nut thing screwing the central bolts down onto the pieces, then the corner ones and wait till its cured. does this sound like far too much fannying about? (reading it over it does a bit) would a single top mould piece work? would there be enough pressure from bolts screwed down onto it. of course the nuts could be welded onto a sheet/frame but i was trying to have minimal/no welding as i dont have the tools to weld or taps to thread.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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The pot life is essentially working time. When I do layups to bond aircraft wheel fairings, I have about 12 minutes of time before the resin starts to turn clumpy. As earlier said in this thread the fastest Scott at ON3P has been able to do a layup and have it under pressure has been 20 minutes (alot of experience behind those hands too) So most guys could probably get a layup done in 35-40 minutes, so If you can get a layup done pretty quick then this press might work out. In reality though if you're looking to press and stay on the cheap side, probably cheapest and easiest to vacuum form a pair of skis. Lots of info on the interwebz about that.
13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,856
The threaded bolts would just warp the top of your frame. The design doesn't really confer much advantage in my opinion, to get anything solid, it needs to be metal, and if you're welding you might as well just hook it up to an air bag and do a pneumatic setup. See what skibuilders.com forums say if you want to pursue it further.
13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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yeah thinking about it, i would just aswell getting a bunch of weights and putting it on the mould it would give a greater, more constant pressure. i think i will do vacuum bag, top mould and then weight to get as much pressure as i can. im getting ahead of myself i need to decide on/design the shape first.
13 years ago
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DrZoidberg
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I'm gonna do skis eventually. I do want to do a surfboard first, cause I've vowed not to buy any more boards and make one for myself instead. I'm not kelly slater, so I won't notice if a rail is slightly uneven or something. I'll just be happy it doesn't sink and pull me down with it when it goes in the ocean.

And whoever is considering the male/female press, I'd go with the hose. Rowen pretty much nailed all the advantages. It's the same reason I switched form a bolt press to vac bag for longboards. Uniform and even application of pressure, and the mold can be one sided and is easier to make. Plus, at least in longboard making, a male/female press has to be offset for the thickness of the materials. A hose wouldn't. That picture posted looks like a concrete mold.

When I own a house my garage is gonna be an awesome workshop.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Making a surfboard will be sick to. Thats why I added the word "Shaping" in the title. I had little knowledge on how skis were made before I ventured in to this, thought it was maybe along the lines of surfboards, lol.....

Anyways, I ordered 4, 8x8", 8' I-Beams today. Hopefully after my grad is over tomorrow I'll be able to put a good focus into this project. Will maybe post a few end frame styles later tonight and get some opinions.

13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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ive been doing some thinking/reading and hands on research over the last week or so and ive decided i am going to build a full reverse camber powder ski with a tapered nose and tail around 120ish underfoot.
this way im building something which is going to be a special experience to ride on and isnt going to get trashed on riding rails and take the general beating park skis get. i downloaded autodesk inventor and have been modelling it, tweaking the shapes and taper,camber, sidecut, shovel radius, etc to get a shape i like and think will work well.
I also think i may have cracked the woodstained veneer topsheet idea after speaking to my dad who, as an architect specifies specialist woodstains, which doesnt close the pores of the wood, for things like sash and case windows. i will still need to do some testing of how well it bonds but its a step in the right direction .I am also looking into how much the flex of the ski will differ with the inclusion of a veneer layer and possibly see about only having one layer of composite and compensating with veneer, by modelling the deflections and stiffness with a programme script i used in a mech eng design course i did
i will get some shots of my modelling once ive decided what im going to go with.

13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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If you could get the veneer to adhere to the core and fiberglass with the stain that would be perfect. After though you would likely need another treatment to close the pores or else they will soak up water. And yeah developing a pow ski is sick, the flow of snow involved with pow skis just seems idk, more magical then sliding on ice and groomers with a ski.
13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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My plan was to have the veneer under a clear topsheet just for sheer durability. I will lose the wood feel of it but if you do something like a thick varnish its gone anyway.
13 years ago
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4237 - Karma: 10,746
My dad has done a pair of skis with a wood veneer on top. They are still holding up pretty well, you just have to constantly look after them, like don't leave them out in the sun after skiing, keep em clean, simple stuff like that. After a year or two they still look pretty damn good.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Pics plz? :D
13 years ago
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hot.pocket
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Second from the right.

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13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Damn those look good. All those made by your dad?
13 years ago
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hot.pocket
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Yeeeeeeup, 7 out of the like 12 pairs he has.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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The Rasta Tye Dye ones are sick. Did he just splatter different colored epoxies in there, or is it tye dyed cotton used for a graphics sheet?

Ok so, would like a few opinions on each press design and their endframes. The press on the left will likely be stronger, but will be more restricted with how large my vertical opening can be, and it shortens the size you can side load from by four inches.

Click for larger image

Also, instead of pinning the press in place, I think I'm going to have some C-Channel that will sit verticall underneath the bottom part of my press, and it will be held in place with a single bolt so It can't blow out sideways under pressure.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
Click for larger image

What are those many of you will ask. What are they? They're stoke muffins. Why? Because I Just got some I-Beam :D


Anyways quick little update, I'm a happy camper, finally having my 1000 Lbs of 8X8 inch I-Beam, got that, and a 4 foot piece of 6 inch C-Channel for all under the price of the original quote of the I-Beams alone.

Here are the beams and the C-Channel that will make up the press (got the C-Channel awhile back in return for some riveting time on a guys airplane)

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Anyways, not I gotta do some landscaping at a buds new house in return for his welding expertise. Hopefully the frame will be done within the next three weeks.
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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After alot of cutting in alot of heat with not much heat, me and a bud have 1 endframe welded up. I need to clean up a few things on it and maybe weld on a few gussets but beyond that its done. It turned out really sqaure and really exact (if that makes any sense)

Unfortuantley we had to use the 225 amp mig. The arc we inteded to use got messed up by a guy at my buds shop a few days earlier...... He wove a few welds on top of eachother. Praying that it will be enough strength to hold up under pressure.

Endframe:
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Weave:
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13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Welp, my welder buddy has been busy, so I havent been able to get the actual press finished. Just filled a few holes and done a few cosmetic welds on the one endframe that is together and done some grinding.

In the meantime:

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Built the bladder! Super important and super stoked about it. Only leaks are right around the fittings that go into the hose, but they're only a dry connection, no thread sealent was used. Fixing that tomorrow then testing the hose to 60-70 psi after that drys. Tested everything up to 20 psi tonight and it works great!
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Haven't update this thread in forever. Super mad right now because I'm chasing problems on my vehicle and having to spend nights fixing them. Can't drive to the shop to work on the press without the old gal! My focus for the past few weeks has had to shift totally away from the project so I'm not too pleased about that.... :( As you can see from my previous posts, I wasn't generous enough with my estimated time frame. Also waiting on welding from my buddy which I was hoping to have done almost a month ago. I guess that's just the devils advocate when working on a traded labor basis with a buddy!

Anyways, with any of you guys who are still on the bubble to get into this hobby, here's something to encourage you and build some stoke, even though it's a splitboard:

Argentina Episode 1 from Never Summer on Vimeo.




13 years ago
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NinetyFour
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Little bit of an empty update here. Been waiting soooo long for some welding from my buddy. Eventually I though I should at least take a day to get my other endframe squared up real nicely and tacked together so that welding it would be much quicker. So I did just that. After I got that done I went back to the waiting game, but today, I finally got my welding. So now I should be getting ready to move forward into the assembly phase of things for testing, and if it passes testing, I'm going to get it sandblasted and painted a nice blue because after all this thing is basically my own personal hotrod.

Here are the two standing endframes spaced 8 feet apart with a shop broom in the middle for reference. Needless to say, it will be a monster:

Click for larger image
13 years ago
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razors-chaz
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While you (NinetyFour) have only got an empty update, ive acctually done something. After lots of changing of minds and lots of reading of lots of things I have decided on a shape and finally got round to modelling it. I decided on an almost reverse camber, reverse sidecut pow ski.At 186cm, It's 120-130-122-125-115. so a small sidecut and its got 40% camber 60% rocker. Its camber is designed up to 10mm but this is for the mould shape so its more likely to relax to around 5mm. Its got a turn radius of 24.5m so hopefully not going to ride like oversized snowblade, like the JJs (with its silly 17m sidecut), supposedly. Despite wanting a serious powder only ski, the little sidecut is to do with the fact that skis without sidecut are unpredictable on hardpack/ice and It will be mainly lift served sidecountry im riding on them so being able to ski back to the lift without looking like a total gaper was the goal
and now some pictures.
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the colour is nothing to do with the final look of the ski, its just works well to look at the shape and to work with for me.
I have fairly big plans for the construction of the ski and need to do plenty of calculations to work out what is going to go into the construction to get the flex I want & need to look into materials. I've got my source for the main materials but need some special stuff. I expect the ski materials&delivery to come to about £250 (400USD) and i think mould materials (MDF) should be £50 max and i'm going to vacuum press which ive not looked into costing for yet, but cant be more expensive than pneumatic pressing, but will be a slightly weaker press.
What do you think? all constructive criticism encouraged.
13 years ago
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Chaunceyskis
Posts: 2197 - Karma: 346
threadssssss
13 years ago
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duimiesteez
Posts: 113 - Karma: 140
ive only build one deck, unfortunately baltic birch is wayyy too flex. im trying to find unilay maple veneer (like after bang) cores. lost of fun though
13 years ago
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jahmin44
Posts: 638 - Karma: 37
MY THREADS
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
HOLY SHIT!


Over the past few weeks, I have been flying under the radar, fighting off every urge to update this thread as I worked on and moved forward at a good pace. Within the last week I started to assemble the monster, piece by piece. It was the final push to get this thing to testing and after all the horror stories about presses shearing bolts and blowing welds over at the www.skibuilders.com forum, I was nervous. This weekend, I spent most of my time at the shop finishing this thing up so I could pressure up the hose and I'm glad to say, after pressurizing it, it passed testing successfully. It withheld 60 psi, or just over 50 tonnes of force (I think my math is right....) for over an hour today! It also looks way better in the flesh than I had ever anticipated. Seriously such a gnarly feeling having something you drew up and designed go from your head, to paper, to the shop floor.

Here is some pictures of it!

Welded the beams onto the endframes, upside-down was easiest.
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Flipped over with the wheels on. Looks empty compared to now.
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Bottom jaw.
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Bottom jaw in the press. Took some fancy work with many jacks to do this....
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After more jacking, buying some jacks, exchanging those jacks for taller jacks, lots of drilling for 5/8" grade 8 hardware to bolt my lower jaw locks in place, playing some jenga to fill the press cavity with wood for testing, and running a bunch of airline to the front of the shop, it was ready to test! The heavy blankets are on the endframes just in case anything happened to get lose....
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Dat Bulge.
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^^^ Seriously erect....

UNDER PRESSAH, PUSHING DOWN ON MEEE!
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Front.
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Rear.
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Overall view.
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60 Psi
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Pressure off, locks removed, and the bottom jaw dropped. This will make unloading and loading the press SOOOO much easier as I think the jaw drops 5 or so inches.
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Molds in the press, still missing the aluminium cassete, bottom camber sheet, upper mold spacers, profile shims, and the cattrack. The bottom jaw is fully dropped here.
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Super stoked on things right now! Glad to have pursued this hard enough to make it here.

Big thanks goes to:

www.skibuilders.com and its memebers for all of its awesome resources and knowledge.

www.NewSchoolers.com members hot.pocket, KyleA, and Ginko for putting up with a retarded amount of PM's loaded with questions.

My buddy Malcolm, Uncle Pete, Dad, and the guys at the shop for their help and services.

Glen for the free C-Channel!

Thanks everyone! Now I just have to build a few more pieces, and think about sandblasting and paint, make it look good; then it will be open season for ski building!

13 years ago
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KyleA
Posts: 865 - Karma: 510
Looks great! 
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
Thanks man! I'm debating getting it sandblasted and then painting it, or just givin it a quick wire wheel and rustoleum paint job real quick and then make it look good next spring. I'm just getting around to ordering materials now so I'd have to wait before I build skis anyways :S aha first world problems. Also, just realized it, but this thread is a year old today!
13 years ago
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
NinetyFour the press looks badass. Nothing wrong with giving it some tlc and a lick of paint. I'm still looking for thoughts on my design...
13 years ago
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25444 - Karma: 13,856
Sick! Are those bottle jacks welded in?
13 years ago
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
Thanks again guys!

Chaz, the ski design looks really good. As far as the core goes, this link should help you with a few of those calculations:

http://www.skibuilders.com/howto/skicon/woodcore.shtml

Personally I'm going to just use a baseline core on my first few skis with a tip and tail thickness of 2mm and an underfoot section of 10mm. Vertically laminated poplar. I will then see how that rides and make tweaks accordingly and try new species of wood in with the core.

Rowen, the jacks are not welded in place. I milled some reliefs in the bottom jaw and bottom stand of the press to keep the jacks in place. I've cycled them up one side at a time so the jaw becomes angled, and both jacks simultaneously and I haven't had it slip yet. I also have some tabs on the bottom jaw to keep it contained inside the press. Don't want that puppy getting loose, it weighs 500 some pounds by itself.....


13 years ago
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jahmin44
Posts: 638 - Karma: 37
My threads
13 years ago
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Bmo.
Posts: 4908 - Karma: 2,669
back in my threads, amazing work 94!
13 years ago
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