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Official Ski Pressing/Shaping/Building/Constructing Thread
All of us have thought about building your own shit at one time or another, but how many of you actually have? This thread will be dedicated to those who actually build your own gear from scratch, surely there are some of you on NS. Now I can't contribute to this thread much because I've never built anything and I only have a small amount of time working with fiberglass, but would sure love to see some info from you dudes who actually do, whether you build in your basement, or for a living. So if you can legitimately contribute please do.
Also, if anyone here is interested building skis professionally, ON3P is hiring at least 3 new ski builders starting immediately at our Portland, OR factory.
If interested, send over a resume and a bit about yourself to careers@on3pskis.com.
iggyskierAlso, if anyone here is interested building skis professionally, ON3P is hiring at least 3 new ski builders starting immediately at our Portland, OR factory.
If interested, send over a resume and a bit about yourself to careers@on3pskis.com.
What type of background are you interested in for this? Do you need an engineering type background?
KravtZWhat type of background are you interested in for this? Do you need an engineering type background?
I have a BS in Biology.
Our Production Manager has a Masters in Art Teaching.
Our Material Manager has a degree in Drafting.
I don't care about your background if you are a hard working, can follow our process without deviation, and care about building good skis.
These are manufacturing positions building skis that are already designed, so we're looking for ski builders, not engineers (though that background is fine, just know that the engineering/design/manufacturing process is already very dialed). If you are good with your hands, can keep consistent quality, and have good attention to detail, you can build good skis.
We usually know within 7-10 days if you are going to be able to build skis at the quality we need. Training to full speed often takes a lot longer (rarely less than several months), but you can tell who has the touch and who doesn't pretty quickly. This is why, at least to date, almost all of our hiring has been through internships. We do 90 hour internships (in exchange for skis) and we can tell pretty quickly who is worth trying to bring on full time.
The thing I make sure to remind people is that we build skis. We're not a marketing & design company who outsources our product. These are full time positions building skis 40 hours per week, so if building skis all day doesn't appeal to you, I would look elsewhere.
Our Production Manager has a Masters in Art Teaching.
Our Material Manager has a degree in Drafting.
I don't care about your background if you are a hard working, can follow our process without deviation, and care about building good skis.
These are manufacturing positions building skis that are already designed, so we're looking for ski builders, not engineers (though that background is fine, just know that the engineering/design/manufacturing process is already very dialed). If you are good with your hands, can keep consistent quality, and have good attention to detail, you can build good skis.
We usually know within 7-10 days if you are going to be able to build skis at the quality we need. Training to full speed often takes a lot longer (rarely less than several months), but you can tell who has the touch and who doesn't pretty quickly. This is why, at least to date, almost all of our hiring has been through internships. We do 90 hour internships (in exchange for skis) and we can tell pretty quickly who is worth trying to bring on full time.
The thing I make sure to remind people is that we build skis. We're not a marketing & design company who outsources our product. These are full time positions building skis 40 hours per week, so if building skis all day doesn't appeal to you, I would look elsewhere.
Interesting perspective from the ski builders side of the equation. Don't think the job is for me but was genuinely curious what type of people you look for. Hope you guys find the right people...Kartel 98's rule...hoping to pick up a pair of 106's before next winter to round out the quiver.
as you transition from flat to bending the ski on an angle in a turn, you also transition from the loaded contact points being what's in contact with the snow, to your "effective edge length" being what's in contact with the snow, unless the rocker profile is crazy (read: surface). but in all rockered ski cases when the contact point is inside the widest point, as you get up on your edges in a turn the effective edge length grows towards the widest point. so your effective edge length isn't always the widest point to widest point, but that's a close enough estimation. blue tomato was asking us to provide that length this year and i left the whole column blank because with tapered skis it gets even more grey on what number to "report".
Alright I've decided to take this project on. I started by drawing out some basic ideas for the profile and shape of the skis I'd like to build. Then I I took that info and began building the bottom mold. I use 3/4" MDF and routed all my pieces identical with a flush trim bit. I found i had to trim most of the wood with my skill saw first and then clean it up with the router. If i didnt trim it close enough to the template my router would bind with the mdf and cause rough spots. I decided to go with the ribbed design they use on skibuilders.com I want to keep it basic for now because I'm not sure how well everything will turn out and I'd rather not invest too much time and money in it until late I have the concept down. I think I'm going to try vacuum bag molding my skis first and see how they turn out. If they are any good I may then go for the idea of building a Pnuematic press.
Alright I've decided to take this project on. I started by drawing out some basic ideas for the profile and shape of the skis I'd like to build. Then I I took that info and began building the bottom mold. I use 3/4" MDF and routed all my pieces identical with a flush trim bit. I found i had to trim most of the wood with my skill saw first and then clean it up with the router. If i didnt trim it close enough to the template my router would bind with the mdf and cause rough spots. I decided to go with the ribbed design they use on skibuilders.com I want to keep it basic for now because I'm not sure how well everything will turn out and I'd rather not invest too much time and money in it until late I have the concept down. I think I'm going to try vacuum bag molding my skis first and see how they turn out. If they are any good I may then go for the idea of building a Pnuematic press.
Been a while since iv been in this thread! in my engineering class iv got access to a ski press so ill be attempting my second pair in the next couple weeks. going to try and build a bc/freeride type ski. 184, 135,105,125 are the major dimensions. have access to carbon fiber fabric, using a hardwood core provided by the school unsure what type of wood.
i remember someone posting about how to use catia to build your template? i wasnt able to find what page that was on. does anyone have links to that or tips on building your template? iv completely forgotten how i did it 3 years ago... lol
BakerpowBeen a while since iv been in this thread! in my engineering class iv got access to a ski press so ill be attempting my second pair in the next couple weeks. going to try and build a bc/freeride type ski. 184, 135,105,125 are the major dimensions. have access to carbon fiber fabric, using a hardwood core provided by the school unsure what type of wood.
i remember someone posting about how to use catia to build your template? i wasnt able to find what page that was on. does anyone have links to that or tips on building your template? iv completely forgotten how i did it 3 years ago... lol
If you know how to use catia go for it but a 3D model isn't needed if you aren't using a CNC machine to do everything. You could also try illustrator or snocad. Snocad is probably the easiest, but note there are limits to what you can make and when you export it uses a ton of nodes and straight lines instead of a completely smooth curve (it's to the point that it is unnoticeable in the real world but if you have ocd it might bother you).
Been working on an all wood ski for about 2 years now and I think it is dialed in.
Started with a normal build ski that had a poplar wood veneer base sealed with spar. It worked for about 20 days but after that all the wood around the edges ended up ripping out.
Next season made a pair from a maple veneer skateboard kit. The veneer was stacked higher towards the midfoot in order to create a flex profile and it was pressed with normal wood glue. After my first run on these skis I found they handled the same way a ski with dull edges does. To no surprise the wood glue didnt hold up and the skis didnt last all to long, but it was enough to get an understanding on what had to be done.
Attempt number 3 was made with a normal ski core and a harder hickory base. The base had a spar finish and the skis were held together with wood glue. They skied pretty well and the hickory base held up a little better than the poplar but there was still tear outs.
Next pair tried a higher grade wood glue which worked great. The hickory base was sealed with a lightweight fiberglass and a very hardwood sidewall. All of that equaled a solid ski with a durable base that held wax. Still skiing on these skis after a little work from hitting a rock. The stronger wood glue held together but it doesn't withstand impacts as well as a ski with epoxy and fiberglass.
The swallowtails were a mistake due to my planner destroying the tails of the cores. After skiing with a swallowtail decided to carry them over to the next pair because they worked well in slush/bumps/powder.
Ended up with this pair, pressed with epoxy and fiberglass with the same fiberglass base. They are still new but they have been skied on heavily and are holding up great. They ski really well and are super stable at high speeds.
Going to keep moving forward with this kind of ski because they are fun and surfy. In the flats you do have to skate them more than a normal ski but once it gets steep they can keep up to any plastic base ski. Check out my instagram page to see them in action.
PoikenzIf you know how to use catia go for it but a 3D model isn't needed if you aren't using a CNC machine to do everything. You could also try illustrator or snocad. Snocad is probably the easiest, but note there are limits to what you can make and when you export it uses a ton of nodes and straight lines instead of a completely smooth curve (it's to the point that it is unnoticeable in the real world but if you have ocd it might bother you).
^^^ this is extremely true. Only real reason to use CAD is if your using a CNC to cut out the molds, base, core and so on. If you are planning on doing that in the future, I'd recommend getting started on that now though, it really takes a lot of time learning to use the program, especially if it is self taught...
loganimlachDude! I love this shape. Reminds me of a slush slasher. Keep up the good work, I love it when construction gets simplified
hot.pocketThe shape reminds me of Spring Break snowboards...
...which is awesome! Been looking for skis resembling those boards for a while now.
Thanks guys. The plan for that ski wasn't that shape. One of the cores tail was ripped apart while being planned and instead of gluing up another core I just decided to make swallowtails. The original size was going to be 185 with the lost of the tail they ended up being 170. Wasn't sure how they would ski after losing that much length but they skied really well and are my go to ski on soft snow days. Definitely going to make another pair of those this summer with a fiberglass lay up instead of the wood glue.
Ok so over the past few months I tried to build a pair of skis. Over 120 hours into them and they are super fucked I kind of jumped into it willy nilly.. Wish Id know about this thread but now I do and plan to get my shit together and start putting some skis out this summer. Anyway BIGGGG question for all of you. Am I fucked here, should I just give up and try again correctly?
Let me explain
Ok so over the past few months I tried to build a pair of skis. Over 120 hours into them and they are super fucked I kind of jumped into it willy nilly.. Wish Id know about this thread but now I do and plan to get my shit together and start putting some skis out this summer. Anyway BIGGGG question for all of you. Am I fucked here, should I just give up and try again correctly?
Let me explain
Wow I'm an idiot, didn't realize tab posted your draft, anyway ill pick up where I left off. So starting with my actual ski I built my cores from 0.25 inch deep bamboo with about 7.5mm deep paulownia foam on top (skate deck/stacked construction as opposed to side by side lamination. I also put a kevlar veil between each board for bonding and maybe help prevent delam? (now just know as you read this i fucked up so many things and did so much shit for no reason) anyway after this was done I went to the school CNC to cut my sidecut, however, this CNC cuts a max of 30cm so I would have to cut each core in 3 parts. Had so much trouble creating the CAD and then getting the CNC to accept it, then the CNC wasn't available for like 3 weeks so I said fuck it and just drew my sidecut on each core and jigsaw them out individually (WHAT AN IDIOT) I actually originally planned to clamp them together and cut them like that for consistency and forgot to do that (again, what an idiot.) So after that the tips were super fucked up and they bent my blade because it wanted to follow the grain, in addition to this my sides were wavey-er than Wabs and A40 on spring break. To combat this I hand planed them (I did put them together for this) until they were somewhat flat and acceptable and still have the same (or close) side cut but obviously narrower by a centimeter or 2. Next, I had cut my ABS sidewall at I think 8mm thick and epoxied it to my core. (sidenote: I use a 2 part epoxy and hardener, heat cured, CPL and CPM but I just try to let it dry for a long time at room or garage temp it remains tacky for weeks except for one or two batches that worked well and were DRY within 24-48 hours, because of this I had to re-epoxy parts of my sidewall about 4 times). After all that I had hand planed my profile because they were done by hand like most things on these skis they were done poorly, very inconsistent and shitty. FOR SOME STUPID reason I let myself be convinced that the sidewalls needed to be slimmed down so they edge teeth bridge the gap from sidewall to core, I used a router for this and one ski as a template for the other. With many fuck ups this method also caused each ski to have one very thick sidewall and one very very thin sidewall. At this point I began to work on my press, I had a 2cm camber underfoot (severe I know that what I was going for) I had a symmetrical profile of 65mm tip/tail raise over 17.5 cm rocker, this was too severe for my thick ass core, I began to plane the cores again to get them to fit, then while testing then I put a vertical crack/snap down the ski (about 3-4 inches long in the tip running toward underfoot if that makes sense) My core was too thick and stiff and my profile was too severe. I cut my profile down to a 50mm rise and a core plained down to probably 1mm of bamboo at the tip and tails, I also blunted them to shorten the crack and distribute pressure, as well as cut out a square section 12 inches long in the tips and forgot to square the 4inches in the tails for the p-tex filler. That's where I am now. My future plans are to put a 2 layer of 10 inch long kevlar veilsn under each tip and tail with one 11 inch part on top of the core (under the p-tex filler) this with a 15inch kevlar veil underfoot, one layer of 22 oz tri-ax glass on top of that, with my top sheet above the glass will be everything on top of my core Under my core will be a full layer of carbon and one layer of 22 oz tri-ax glass, below that is my VDS strips and finally my 1.6 x 1.6mm edge and P-tex base. I plan to add all of this to my core during layup. I know my tails with flex with the profile of the press but my noses may be a stretch. I am sure anything I add and pre-cure to the core will add stiffness and pop off of get screwed up during lay-up. For my press I was planning on using a duplicator to cut my profile into 3 2x6x8 boards to make one (one ski press) ill do this twice so when I put together one ski I can just put It in its own press (I plan to cover the wood in waxpaper for leaks) then I can start on the second ski while the first cures and put it in its own press. This method should make lay up easier and I should be able to see both edges on both skis so I can see mistakes and catch them. Obviously, this is a big shit show and a terrible report of it. I just want to know if this will work. And does anyone know if all those composites and I thick core will be too much? I think it should be fine because the paulownia and foam is so soft its more of a filler. My side cut is about 82/66/80 from my originally planned 105/80/95 and my depths are 9mm underfoot spanning down to 2.5 at the tail and 3.5mm in the nose @182.8 cm (before pressing) both all these are just the cores without composites or filler on them. about 30cm back from the nose the core is 8mm deep and 30cm from the tail it is about 7mm deep. I will try to get pics up soon if anyone has interest, the hard part is I did almost all of this with a hand plane and hand tools, close to Amish style but I suck at it and everything has gashes, missing pieces or something wrong with it, they are pretty ugly. This started for a school project and everything has gone wrong its months past the deadline and I want to get into building and need to get the tools and research more before trying to make a pair ofter this pair. If anyone wants to read my school report that isn't a wall of grammatical errors let me know and I can post it on here or something. The only thing that went well are my graphics look great but are too big for my skis, this is why I wanted to get some cheap black p-tex base and white PBT for the top for this pair and use my kick ass graphics for the second pair thatI won'tt fuck up. If you read this farm I am very inpressed, please help thank you. I also hand planed the angle of the side wall so its uneven had notches in it and is ugly as hell if these things live they will probably ski like shit.
That is a big wall of text and on a side note when I figure my shit out does anyone have an opinion on cork skis? What if you took a ton of thin layers of cork and epoxied them together? Someone posted a video of people doing this with card board and it worked well and cork is light and flexible, if you could get the epoxy to fill the cells it might be revolutionary. thoughts?
DeepskierThat is a big wall of text and on a side note when I figure my shit out does anyone have an opinion on cork skis? What if you took a ton of thin layers of cork and epoxied them together? Someone posted a video of people doing this with card board and it worked well and cork is light and flexible, if you could get the epoxy to fill the cells it might be revolutionary. thoughts?
I think if epoxy filled all the cells, you would just end up with a solid brick of epoxy. Imagine a sponge soaked in epoxy. It pretty much take on the mechanical properties of only epoxy.
s-handI think if epoxy filled all the cells, you would just end up with a solid brick of epoxy. Imagine a sponge soaked in epoxy. It pretty much take on the mechanical properties of only epoxy.
kind of what I'm thinking but you could dial in how much epoxy to use and or how thick to make the cork slabs. Also the use of composites would be a big part of it of course.
Deepskierkind of what I'm thinking but you could dial in how much epoxy to use and or how thick to make the cork slabs. Also the use of composites would be a big part of it of course.
Definitely cant hurt to try. I'm by no means an expert on ski cores.
Deepskierkind of what I'm thinking but you could dial in how much epoxy to use and or how thick to make the cork slabs. Also the use of composites would be a big part of it of course.
Cork would be terrible, it doesn't add strength and it will snap. Don't rely on composite materials so much, they are nice, but pound for pound, wood is stronger (unless you use a shit wood like balsa) and doesn't break down as quickly. Research more about composites- as it stands your current design is using way too much.
To help with your building dilemma the only tools you need are a router, a table saw, and a way to press, maybe a palm sander and a jigsaw. Everything else is just nice to have (jointer, planer, etc.). Take more time researching and planning, it will help you anticipate mistakes. Buy extra material so you don't have to wait on more when you make a mistake. The two big things to watch out for are base warp and lining up your cores with your hopefully non-warped base.
DeepskierThat is a big wall of text and on a side note when I figure my shit out does anyone have an opinion on cork skis? What if you took a ton of thin layers of cork and epoxied them together? Someone posted a video of people doing this with card board and it worked well and cork is light and flexible, if you could get the epoxy to fill the cells it might be revolutionary. thoughts?
I think that honestly props you went through all of that with your cores. In the least mean way I literally laughed throughout the entire post because not joking I went through the exact same thing a while back and I just couldn't get enough! Honestly I just layed mine up for fun and to get more expierence on how the layup process works and how much epoxy I should use and so on because the layup process of the skis and make or break the entire thing. So I'd say for more experience on the next pair you want to build follow through with it and try and learn as much as you possibly can when your doing it. Maybe even record the process and watch it back to see how you could have prepared your materials better or done something better in the future.
In the subject of cork skis.
I think that they are bullcrap because they don't have the natural properties that a regular woodcore would have. The grain pattern, among other things, would not make the ski nearly as strong or capable. I see it somewhat similar to the older trashy skis that are built with a foamcore, except a little bit of a step up with cork, but still not nearly the same, or as good as wood. I was doing research in the area of actually using a hemp weave instead, but the drawbacks are that you would have to use a hemp particle board, like MDF, and since that destroys most all of the excellent qualities that hemp has in strength, flex, dampness, and so on, I came to the conclusion that it is not near a good idea to try. Same kind of idea with cork, even if the epoxy filled in the cells because I believe it is not so much about that, but more so about the different properties that cork posses in the form of a particle board, and I believe that it basically sucks and anything in a particle board format basically sucks. Cardboard works, but it just sucks to be honest. Just curious did you see that from Every third thursday? They built one and it was pretty sick, but doesn't work like a real board/ski.
By the way I forgot to say for your building process. You said you had access to a CNC. Use it next time because production quality will be a couple hundred times higher. Also A few things you could use.
ZennanI think that honestly props you went through all of that with your cores. In the least mean way I literally laughed throughout the entire post because not joking I went through the exact same thing a while back and I just couldn't get enough! Honestly I just layed mine up for fun and to get more expierence on how the layup process works and how much epoxy I should use and so on because the layup process of the skis and make or break the entire thing. So I'd say for more experience on the next pair you want to build follow through with it and try and learn as much as you possibly can when your doing it. Maybe even record the process and watch it back to see how you could have prepared your materials better or done something better in the future.
In the subject of cork skis.
I think that they are bullcrap because they don't have the natural properties that a regular woodcore would have. The grain pattern, among other things, would not make the ski nearly as strong or capable. I see it somewhat similar to the older trashy skis that are built with a foamcore, except a little bit of a step up with cork, but still not nearly the same, or as good as wood. I was doing research in the area of actually using a hemp weave instead, but the drawbacks are that you would have to use a hemp particle board, like MDF, and since that destroys most all of the excellent qualities that hemp has in strength, flex, dampness, and so on, I came to the conclusion that it is not near a good idea to try. Same kind of idea with cork, even if the epoxy filled in the cells because I believe it is not so much about that, but more so about the different properties that cork posses in the form of a particle board, and I believe that it basically sucks and anything in a particle board format basically sucks. Cardboard works, but it just sucks to be honest. Just curious did you see that from Every third thursday? They built one and it was pretty sick, but doesn't work like a real board/ski.
haha you have no idea, I screwed up cutting for my filler so I have this line about 1.5mm thick and 5mm of 7mm deep in the core and its just never ending.
So what if you replaced foam with cork and uped the amount a little bit taking down weight without taking away strength?
Deepskierhaha you have no idea, I screwed up cutting for my filler so I have this line about 1.5mm thick and 5mm of 7mm deep in the core and its just never ending.
So what if you replaced foam with cork and uped the amount a little bit taking down weight without taking away strength?
Hahah ya dude I did the exact same thing with my hand router, and it was just disgusting lol.
So I believe personally that it might not really be the weight and strength, but the torsional rigidity, and flex patterns would be all weird and different, not to sure how strong the cork itself is and how much damage and force it could take and so on. You'd also have real thick skis to get anywhere near the softest skis people are riding now. But honestly you really do never know until you try I guess, I mean that is normally what I think. If you do all your research and so on there is a possibility you can really put out a sick pair. Just don't go in without a crap ton of research and knowledge to building even one pair, because you can waste alot of money doing that! I personally have not done much reading at all on cork, just minimal, so maybe you can read and find things and ways to make cork's strength come out on display!
ZennanHahah ya dude I did the exact same thing with my hand router, and it was just disgusting lol.
So I believe personally that it might not really be the weight and strength, but the torsional rigidity, and flex patterns would be all weird and different, not to sure how strong the cork itself is and how much damage and force it could take and so on. You'd also have real thick skis to get anywhere near the softest skis people are riding now. But honestly you really do never know until you try I guess, I mean that is normally what I think. If you do all your research and so on there is a possibility you can really put out a sick pair. Just don't go in without a crap ton of research and knowledge to building even one pair, because you can waste alot of money doing that! I personally have not done much reading at all on cork, just minimal, so maybe you can read and find things and ways to make cork's strength come out on display!
Yeah man Ill have to give her a shot some time maybe they would work well as sidewalls?
I really don't know much about ski building, but if I understand correctly pretty much the only benefit of cork is that it is light and eco freindly, and maybe kinda damp(?) but pretty much useless to try to make a full cork core, correct?
so what if you laminated cork and some other wood together to make the skis a little more lightweight and flexible, and basically just use the cork as spacers between the wood stringers. you would have to devise a way so that the cork would not be saturated with epoxy though. I would assume you would also have to work around the loss of torsional rigidity and add in wood in the opposite direction as the wood/cork laminate.
kinda something like this cross section, but with all the other necessary fiberglass or carbon and whatnot as well
---------------------------
WWWWWWWWWW
---------------------------
W C W C W C W C W
----------------------------
Base Base Base Base
---------------------------
I'm really just spitballin here and don't really have any experience with making skis, just reading this thread.
Sup dudes, looking to get some advice on laminates... I'm currently on Blends and want to build a ski thats overall 10mm wider, with a tighter sidecut, and slightly stiffer. I've fallen in love with the J Metal/Vacation shape after skiing my mate's Metals, so I'm basing the shape off that.
I'm struggling with figuring out where to go on achieving the right stiffness.
For the core I have available to me Western Red Cedar (370kg/m^3, 7.66GPa) and Kauri Pine (540kg/m^3, 11.87GPa), so Kauri for stringers and and Red Cedar for the rest.
Then, for composites I have 300g (~10oz) carbon uni and 600g (20oz) fiberglass biaxial (+/-45).
I've got plenty of experience working with carbon/foam sandwich construction in boats but wood cores and heavy fiberglass mat is a bit of an unknown to me. From what I can tell the core materials I'm working with are pretty close in spec to what's typically found in freestyle skis, and the weight of the fibreglass mat is close-ish too. It looks like most manufacturers are using a 6-800g/m^2 triaxial fiberglass with carbon stringers...
My thoughts were a simple layup: [600 F biax - 300 C uni - core - 300 C uni - 600 F biax].
The fibreglass layer is about right, but I'm worried there's too much carbon. I could do a narrow carbon layer down the middle of the ski but I'm worried about lateral stiffness along the ski edge... or could I just do this? Being in Australia I really only have one shot at getting this right as it's really expensive to get materials over here (edges, sidewalls, base etc.).
Not sure how accurate the Junksupply simulator is, but plugging my layup in came out with a stiffness 'very hard', which was unexpected.
Any advice on what I can do with what I have? I can buy other composites and timbers, but I have access to what I listed for free, so it'd be rad if I could get away with what I've got.
freshiesbrahSup dudes, looking to get some advice on laminates... I'm currently on Blends and want to build a ski thats overall 10mm wider, with a tighter sidecut, and slightly stiffer. I've fallen in love with the J Metal/Vacation shape after skiing my mate's Metals, so I'm basing the shape off that.
I'd pick Kauri over the cedar. Most companies use a maple/ aspen combo to keep down weight but I find a solid core to be just as light as you don't have to make up for weight savings with weaker composite products. It's also nicer to not have to worry about where your screws are going. What are you looking at for dimensions? 2-9-2 for the core? I haven't ridden the blends, but I assume you could get away with a 2-9-2, with 2 layers of biax and one cf. I find cf not ideal for park skis, but that is just me.
In terms of sidewall materials you could always just run plain wood and seal it, or if you are worried about rot get a nice decking material like ipe (might be just as expensive as sidewalls where you are). The downsides of the wood sidewall is that it isn't as impact resistant and it can be heavier, but it is stiffer than running a traditional sidewall.
There are always things to think about when designing, which is fun. Let's be real, if you don't like the first pair, there will be a second pair, so don't worry too much. If you end up liking ski building you start to think, man I wish I did this differently and you plan your next pair. You don't want to have the Bugatti to start because you've already hit the ceiling, you need the shitbox golf so you have something to work towards.
PoikenzI'd pick Kauri over the cedar. Most companies use a maple/ aspen combo to keep down weight but I find a solid core to be just as light as you don't have to make up for weight savings with weaker composite products. It's also nicer to not have to worry about where your screws are going. What are you looking at for dimensions? 2-9-2 for the core? I haven't ridden the blends, but I assume you could get away with a 2-9-2, with 2 layers of biax and one cf. I find cf not ideal for park skis, but that is just me.
In terms of sidewall materials you could always just run plain wood and seal it, or if you are worried about rot get a nice decking material like ipe (might be just as expensive as sidewalls where you are). The downsides of the wood sidewall is that it isn't as impact resistant and it can be heavier, but it is stiffer than running a traditional sidewall.
There are always things to think about when designing, which is fun. Let's be real, if you don't like the first pair, there will be a second pair, so don't worry too much. If you end up liking ski building you start to think, man I wish I did this differently and you plan your next pair. You don't want to have the Bugatti to start because you've already hit the ceiling, you need the shitbox golf so you have something to work towards.
2-9-2 was the plan with a 10mm cedar down the middle, 30mm Kauri stringers either side for the bindings and some core stiffness/strength then cedar again outside that to make up the rest. Full Kauri would work too I guess, it'd be nice to have some more confidence in the core strength.
For simplicity sake I was leaning towards not bothering with sidewalls, they're difficult to justify in terms of the extra cost and complexity when shaping the core... I can easy just seal the walls with epoxy and having cedar would make up for most of the wieght saving anyway. This will mostly be a fun pow ski so hopefully rocks will be avoided as much as possible.
And yeah... Knowing me I'll get a bit obsessive about optimising all the materials and want to start doing this every season, so I'm sure there'll be more builds in the pipeline :D
Ok so I fucked up my last cores and didn't want to pump a shit ton of money in composites and graphics into a weak shit ski. So I'm trying it again with different dimensions using a CNC and auto planer. My question is does anyone know anything about Die cut bases like armadas? Would love to do part racebase majority of the ski with strong p tex at the tip and tail.
Also how do I know what my radius will be, I build my specs off other skis and tweak them so I wont end up with a 10 or 30m radius but how do I calculate what it will be within 1 meter or so, would like to have a 20 or 21 on these.
DeepskierOk so I fucked up my last cores and didn't want to pump a shit ton of money in composites and graphics into a weak shit ski. So I'm trying it again with different dimensions using a CNC and auto planer. My question is does anyone know anything about Die cut bases like armadas? Would love to do part racebase majority of the ski with strong p tex at the tip and tail.
Also how do I know what my radius will be, I build my specs off other skis and tweak them so I wont end up with a 10 or 30m radius but how do I calculate what it will be within 1 meter or so, would like to have a 20 or 21 on these.
I have only ever machined my cores on a CNC, as i dont trust my own use of planers etc despite having no problems in the finishing of my skis. I have gotten much more comfortable setting the machine going with less dread at encountering issues. Have you had much cnc experience? are you taking it to a cnc shop to be done by a professional?
from what i've seen from various factories doing a die cut base isnt too difficult with the correct tools, i.e. a drag knife tool and software for the cnc. from what i've seen after its just a case of taping the base and die cut bits on the underside (as i would expect you would to reduce epoxy on the running surface of the base). and then covering the base in epoxy as you would normally. To avoid warping of the material I would suggest doing the cutting as close to lay-up as possible as the base material plastics are quite temperature sensitive. I would have loved to get into doing die cut patterns on my skis but i moved to using a thicker base material and can only easily get it in black.
As for ski radius if you draw out the shape of your ski on a CAD program ( I prefer autoCAD) and then using the radius dimension tool on the arc of the sidecut you can find out your ski's turn radius.
If you want any more help with machining the core on the CNC or anything with the drawing aspect of the skis drop me a message.
razors-chazI have only ever machined my cores on a CNC, as i dont trust my own use of planers etc despite having no problems in the finishing of my skis. I have gotten much more comfortable setting the machine going with less dread at encountering issues. Have you had much cnc experience? are you taking it to a cnc shop to be done by a professional?
from what i've seen from various factories doing a die cut base isnt too difficult with the correct tools, i.e. a drag knife tool and software for the cnc. from what i've seen after its just a case of taping the base and die cut bits on the underside (as i would expect you would to reduce epoxy on the running surface of the base). and then covering the base in epoxy as you would normally. To avoid warping of the material I would suggest doing the cutting as close to lay-up as possible as the base material plastics are quite temperature sensitive. I would have loved to get into doing die cut patterns on my skis but i moved to using a thicker base material and can only easily get it in black.
As for ski radius if you draw out the shape of your ski on a CAD program ( I prefer autoCAD) and then using the radius dimension tool on the arc of the sidecut you can find out your ski's turn radius.
If you want any more help with machining the core on the CNC or anything with the drawing aspect of the skis drop me a message.
Yeah ive had a little, I would try to use the schools machine but im sure I will just find someone with one I can use for free or cheap. autoCAD is dope but I have a mac :( and as for die cuts I think they would have to be cured before layup, but if you use a nonheated epoxy it would work but you might have to bridge the gaps with a small composite.
DeepskierYeah ive had a little, I would try to use the schools machine but im sure I will just find someone with one I can use for free or cheap. autoCAD is dope but I have a mac :( and as for die cuts I think they would have to be cured before layup, but if you use a nonheated epoxy it would work but you might have to bridge the gaps with a small composite.
Even if you get it done by somebody else having some CNC knowledge will greatly help when you go to them and you might be able to negotiate a discount if you can provide them with usable files.
You can get autocad for mac (I think)
I've seen one or two places saying the industrial way to do it is die cut the base and then re-sinter the material together. Having looked about and the custom ski builders (formal diy ski builders) all seem to just use the tape method. How is bridging the gaps with some extra, small composite any different from what you're going to achieve when you properly lay them up, covering them with glass/carbon matting? Seems like overkill and likely just to give you a bulge at the die cut.
FaunaSkisEven if you get it done by somebody else having some CNC knowledge will greatly help when you go to them and you might be able to negotiate a discount if you can provide them with usable files.
You can get autocad for mac (I think)
I've seen one or two places saying the industrial way to do it is die cut the base and then re-sinter the material together. Having looked about and the custom ski builders (formal diy ski builders) all seem to just use the tape method. How is bridging the gaps with some extra, small composite any different from what you're going to achieve when you properly lay them up, covering them with glass/carbon matting? Seems like overkill and likely just to give you a bulge at the die cut.
Hmmmm I dont think It is thick enough to cause a bulge, but I plan on doing all CNC work as independently as possible.
Making good progress on my mould, it's a full rocker design. Also had a practice cutting out base material using a router and it's super easy with a router so thats good. Made up a test core section which seems a bit too stiff so I need to go back to the drawing board on that one.
Mould finished, just need to get some release wax on there and it's ready to go.
My test layup is WAY too stiff (albeit extremely strong). I think I'm on the money with the 600g quadraxial but the timber is overkill, probably about 2.5x stiffer than I'm really aiming for. I'm considering a paulownia and bamboo core with carbon stringers now, but it'll be a while before I can get the material together and make up another test piece.
DeepskierYeah ive had a little, I would try to use the schools machine but im sure I will just find someone with one I can use for free or cheap. autoCAD is dope but I have a mac :( and as for die cuts I think they would have to be cured before layup, but if you use a nonheated epoxy it would work but you might have to bridge the gaps with a small composite.
Autocad works well on Mac and draftsight is a good free alternative.
Use mediopore tape on your diecut seams. Don't worry too much about any small gaps, all that shit fills with epoxy anyways. Go grab any major manufacturers ski off the wall and check out their die cuts, you'll see all kinds of imperfections even with their extensive cnc work.
I love making skis without any cnc help, it's so much more fun and involved. CNCs aren't necessary to the process at all unless you're in a manufacturing situation.
loganimlachAutocad works well on Mac and draftsight is a good free alternative.
Use mediopore tape on your diecut seams. Don't worry too much about any small gaps, all that shit fills with epoxy anyways. Go grab any major manufacturers ski off the wall and check out their die cuts, you'll see all kinds of imperfections even with their extensive cnc work.
I love making skis without any cnc help, it's so much more fun and involved. CNCs aren't necessary to the process at all unless you're in a manufacturing situation.
I see, but at the same time I will never be even close to being half as handy as you. And by the way the podskim footy and surfaced is real tight you should get back in front of the lens a bit more
freshiesbrahMould finished, just need to get some release wax on there and it's ready to go.
My test layup is WAY too stiff (albeit extremely strong). I think I'm on the money with the 600g quadraxial but the timber is overkill, probably about 2.5x stiffer than I'm really aiming for. I'm considering a paulownia and bamboo core with carbon stringers now, but it'll be a while before I can get the material together and make up another test piece.
What is the thickness and length of your test piece? You may find it to feel stiff because it doesn't resemble the flex of a full length ski. Blah blah, science and leverage, but I know if I clamp down the heel piece of the softest ski I have and put all my force onto the toe piece, that length may only flex a couple cm, but I can hand flex the whole thing into a half circle.
PoikenzWhat is the thickness and length of your test piece? You may find it to feel stiff because it doesn't resemble the flex of a full length ski. Blah blah, science and leverage, but I know if I clamp down the heel piece of the softest ski I have and put all my force onto the toe piece, that length may only flex a couple cm, but I can hand flex the whole thing into a half circle.
600mm long, 10mm thick at one end and 3mm at the other. I know what you mean though... I still think it needs to be far softer to achieve what I'm looking for.
Finally found a supplier for laminated bamboo! Proven formula, no more fucking around with unknowns. We'll see what the stiffness is like when I wake up tomorrow. I have a much better feeling about this one, and if all is good I can make a start on the real cores and then move on to the lay up and bag.
200g plain weave carbon on the bottom, 120g plain weave fiberglass on top and a 25mm wide 200g uni carbon strip either side as well.
I'm thinking underfoot I'll have an extra layer of the 200g plain carbon 650mm long under the core and use my 600g quadraxial fiberglass as binding mat, maybe 450mm long. Stiff middle, soft tips.
**This post was edited on Sep 21st 2017 at 8:46:41am
**This post was edited on Sep 21st 2017 at 8:47:40am
Went a little wild on this shape, reverse/reverse with a swallow tail lots of carbon fiber, lightweight fiberglass, a fiberglass/wood base and edgeless. Pretty excited to get them on some soft snow.
SmartWent a little wild on this shape, reverse/reverse with a swallow tail lots of carbon fiber, lightweight fiberglass, a fiberglass/wood base and edgeless. Pretty excited to get them on some soft snow.
