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All edges break

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JATS101
Posts: 882 - Karma: 17
Just saw a post with one person wondering about which edges last the longest, and I have seen other people ask about this befor to, well this is just a little extra info for people who dont know. When you slide rails (metal on metal) somthing is bound to happen and it is most likely going to be to the couple of mm is metal on your boards. When you slide the edges heat up, when you land on the snow, they cool down, this tempers the metal making it harder and more brittle. What happens to brittle metal? it breaks, it doesn't bend but breaks. The thicker edges used by snowboard companys and now by line may last a little longer but they will do the same thing, as for people who break there edges first time on rails, thats just bad luck, you probably knocked the rail a little hard along the way causing your edge to break. That all it is, unless some companies start spending some money on testing new alloys that are lest prone to becoming tempered its all gonna be the same ski to ski. Once again this is just for the people who didnt know. And if I got some info wrong or you got somethin to add let it out.


I just wanna ski, is that to much to ask in life
Aug 23 2004 1:57PM
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west
Posts: 5229 - Karma: 36
The heat created by sliding a rail is very small, and would never be hot enough to have the temper when it hits snow.




better to burn out...
...then fade away
Aug 23 2004 2:04PM
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west
Posts: 5229 - Karma: 36
...and most of us understand that edges will break at some point, so why not search for the thickest most durable ones we can find? The temepering you speak of does not occur when sliding a rail.




better to burn out...
...then fade away
Aug 23 2004 2:05PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
All we really need to cite here is: TM edges.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Aug 23 2004 2:08PM
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estaked
Posts: 7388 - Karma: 79
west well u can on rocks liek case harden so i belive u can case harden edges on rails too
---------------------------------------------------------

'she acts like i was supposed to stick around... and i told her FUCK THAT! this isnt elimidate' - yammaTom9

$$$$$$NWFT$$$$$$

STENCIL KREW
Aug 23 2004 2:13PM
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ninthward
Posts: 161 - Karma: 10
honestly edges come in several thicknesses that are available to all mfg's, however depending on the thickness of the p-tex used determines how thick a certain ski mfg's edges come out, the edge has to be ground to the same thickness as the base. also you can minimize the effect of rails on edges by decreasing the amount of compressable material underfoot,
Aug 23 2004 2:15PM
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ninthward
Posts: 161 - Karma: 10
tempering rails with heat or anealling(sp) can actaully makr the edges too soft, they wont break but will bend all over
Aug 23 2004 2:18PM
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Aerozol
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 488
my edges are getting pretty damn round :(,
or at least one side is (I have trouble railing left foot forward)
Aug 23 2004 3:26PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
yeah, west has this one down. there is almost no heat created by sliding rails. your skis are wet to begin with, and there is almost no friction. its a good theory though. edges crack from the stress put on the ski from metal on metal impacts. such as stompin a big disaster, or from steep kinks. because the metal is part of a very ridged structure (the ski), once the forces overcome the stresses that meaterial can wistand, it cracks. However, if the edge isnt strongly supported inside the ski, the impact forces can push the edge straight out of the ski. so, its not ao much about what edge is the strongest, but what ski is the best made. and if you want to save your edges from cracks, the answer is simply detuning them so they do not take the impacts from landing on rails. and when you do this, use a method that prevents the edges from getting very hot. (belt sanders, dremils ect). as i have said before, if you get the edges to hot, either from tuning or waxing, it breaks down the bonds with the epoxy inside the ski. there for resulting in an edge that easily falls out.

I.L.I.A.G.A CREW!


I drink pepto bismal like its water.. -PJO
Aug 23 2004 7:19PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
ROCKWELL 48!

Stacie: 'Aren't you going to open your gift?'
Wayne: 'If it's a severed head, I'm going to be very upset.'
Aug 23 2004 7:29PM
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scofield
Posts: 7973 - Karma: 2,467
now its coming together (yeah right)

~Bon Bons

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Aug 23 2004 7:32PM
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fluff
Posts: 1471 - Karma: 221
i;d have to agree with the author of this post. my edges are defiently burned from heat created due to sliding metal to metal. however, i;ve noticed that my edges tend to become cracked if i disaster. leading me to believe that its not the from hot to cold action you speak of.
Aug 24 2004 9:11AM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
due, they dont get hot^. for them to get noticbly warm, there would have to be quite a bit of friction. and there is almost none on rails. maybe on concrete ledges, but not steel.

I.L.I.A.G.A CREW!


I drink pepto bismal like its water.. -PJO
Aug 24 2004 11:26AM
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fluff
Posts: 1471 - Karma: 221
are you serious? havent you had your jacket or pants melt on you if you go down on a rail. . . that didnt come out right. FU, but you know what i mean. theres totally friction. its phyisics.
Aug 24 2004 11:40AM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
thats diferent, and no, thats never happend. the plastic your coat is made of is not nearly as slick as your edge. take your ski to some random rail, and slide it along for a while. go back and forth, there isnt any noticble heat, and certinly not enough to effect the structural characteristics of the metal. in order for steel to temper, it has to be red hot. this isnt happing on rails.

I.L.I.A.G.A CREW!


I drink pepto bismal like its water.. -PJO
Aug 24 2004 11:58AM
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east
Posts: 1073 - Karma: 94
yeah i have some burn marks on my edges but not from sliding just from landing hard on the rail. It's instantaneous heat caused by collision not from the friction of sliding. But yeah to agree with the post all edges break if you ski hard enough
Aug 24 2004 12:10PM
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west
Posts: 5229 - Karma: 36
For a normal grade steel to temper it must reach a color of yellow to light orange at a minimum; that's right out of my materials engineering book. Sliding a rail does not create even a small faction of the heat required to temper or create a burn mark on steel. The spots you see on your edges that you think are burn marks are most likely small rust spots, this happens on most skis after riding and then letting your skis just sit. As for the staement reguaring coat/pants burning after sliding down a rail I have never heard of that. I've slid on my stomach down a 50ft flat rail with no evidence of burns or excessive heat.




better to burn out...
...then fade away
Aug 24 2004 12:11PM
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mckeeman
Posts: 2674 - Karma: 122
actually none of that is correct...the actual reason why edges pull out is simple. When your fresh, sharp edge slides metal on metal it causes friction...this pulls the edge out. A little trick i have learned over the years is to completely de tune your edge under your foot...with the edge being rounded, this causes less friction and will not pull the edge out. If you take a brand new pair of skis and try and detune them by sliding rails, this is how the edges weaken so fast...Cracked edges are caused by landing on the rails hard...possibly from disasters and such...so just take about 10cms under your foot and round the fuck out of it. Just keep the edge infront and behind your boot razor sharp for the pipe.


When in doubt...FSI


...fuckin send it


work to live...not live to work.
work to ski...but only if you ski to work. The simple equation to skibumming 101
Aug 24 2004 12:13PM
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west
Posts: 5229 - Karma: 36
Were you refering to what I said?




better to burn out...
...then fade away
Aug 24 2004 12:38PM
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Logchucker
Posts: 1508 - Karma: 16
Here, we can all agree that the the edge must heat up slighly when you hit a rail. When metal becomes hot it exapnds (slightly), hit the snow to coolo it of and it reatracts slightly. this slight exapnsion probably isnn't why your edge falss of as I doubt it would have an affect until you hit a hundred rail, but it may

The smart man does not know everything, rather the smart man admits when he knows nothing.
Aug 24 2004 1:32PM
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west
Posts: 5229 - Karma: 36
The heat it requires to have metal expand and contract enough to cause that type of damage is fairly high. You could never grind a long enough rail to cause that type of heat.




better to burn out...
...then fade away
Aug 24 2004 1:44PM
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skihillraod
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 45
wax your skis every day you ride check the pitch across under foot with file ect and make sure you are not dragging and you'll be fine. I broke tm's at the noses not underfoot, supposedly that is hard to do my tm's have been golden on rails
'3030'
Aug 24 2004 2:31PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
Ya, if you're careful and don't do closed angle kinks and huge distasters, your edges should last a long time. My old line mike nicks lasted 2 years doing rails for 50 ski days a year. Don't smack the dges of your skis down hard on rock or cement or anythign while walking around, be careful in the gondolas and don't chuck your skis at tress when you miss a trick. Also watch for rocks, the only crack I had in my mike nicks was from stopping on a rock. My TMs have done half a year of rails, the most agressive jibbing I've done, and have held up fine, I am sliding well made rails and taking care of my skis, that's all you have to do.
Aug 24 2004 4:34PM
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