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Why does everything cost so much?

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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
I'm tired of having to pay so much money for everything related to skiing. For example, the average pair of ski pants are $200! To me that's just ridiculous! After materials, labor, and shipping, what percent of the retail price is just pure profit for these companies?

inb4 don't buy anything if you don't like the prices
inb4 gear talk
inb4 cool story bro

P.S. mods please feel free to move this to gear talk if you feel it better suits this thread. I just think that this is more on the entire industry, not just specifically gear.
Oct 10 2011 11:11AM
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willy_baller
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 693
the average isn't $200 for ski pants. if you shop around you could get sick pants and a sick jacket for under $200. but if you want saga first drop or any of those brands you're going to pay for the name.
Oct 10 2011 11:16AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
That's true. But usually if you buy this year's stuff for most major companies, it'll be somewhere around there. Like Armada, TNF, Saga, etc.
Oct 10 2011 11:21AM
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coldcuts69
Posts: 3718 - Karma: 1,888
I agree, but thats just the way things are, if you want quality and style you gotta pay more
Oct 10 2011 11:22AM
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chardi
Posts: 5040 - Karma: 59
you can buy ski pants for like $20 at any normal clothing store in the winter. sorry you only trendwhore really expensive brands and can't afford a new saga suit each year. you are such a
Oct 10 2011 11:26AM
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chardi
Posts: 5040 - Karma: 59
its also really ironic that your name is unclesam and you are bitching about capitalism
Oct 10 2011 11:28AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
Oh well actually, I've been working since May mowing 4 lawns a week because I buy my stuff myself. So you can fuck off. I don't own a Saga suit, and the Saga vest that I preordered I paid for every penny of.
Oct 10 2011 11:30AM
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SacZiplock
Posts: 2405 - Karma: 513
Mosty for the name yea, and sometimes its also of a better quality ,
Oct 10 2011 11:30AM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Short answer...skiing is an expensive sport, it always has been and always will be...between gear, outerwear, lift tickets, and other random stuff, it's generally expensive.



Sure, there are ways to make it cheap (buy last years stuff, ski bum around, hike for turns, ect.), it doesn't change that the general skiing population has money, so companies will charge more for their goods because people will pay for it...simple business plan supply/demand. Because styles change every year, companies change their product line every year, making for almost a one off style of production, which can be set at a higher price because people will buy it. Case in point, ski companies like Saga, LDC, Jiberish (although that's becoming less and less ski oriented, which is a good thing for them), and others ALWAYS pretty much sell out of their product every season, even though it's "expensive", so why would they lower the price...that's a dumb business plan.
Oct 10 2011 11:32AM
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Tree60
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 4,961
It's because they know we are going to pay for it. end of story.
Oct 10 2011 11:32AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
Yeah, everything you said was true. But what does it actually cost them to make something?
Oct 10 2011 11:34AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
And it's nice that you decided to change your signature from fag to douche in between posts! Don't want to offend anyone with gay slurs!
Oct 10 2011 11:39AM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2802 - Karma: 429
Because people only pay that price from now until feb, then they have to reduce the price at least 50% because a whole new line will be out in 6 months.

THERE IS SO MUCH SKI EQUIPMENT AND CLOTHING ON THE MARKET THERE IS NO NEED TO EVER PAY FULL RETAIL
Oct 10 2011 11:43AM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
To physically make the product...not that much.

However, to run a business takes a TON of money...you need a design team to come up with new ideas, a marketing team to sell the product, a location (or several), a distribution team, a shipping team, the cost of shipping, you probably have tons of start up loans you have to pay, maybe even athlete contracts to pay, and tons of other expenses.


I mean, think about it, you don't see the owners of these companies rolling around in $80,000+ cars and living alone in huge houses do you...they're not making bank off of you...just enough to keep them going. Most of what the company makes this year, will be invested into next years gear.
Oct 10 2011 11:46AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
I almost always wait until something is "last year's" to get a better price. You can get such a good deal!
Oct 10 2011 11:47AM
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coldcuts69
Posts: 3718 - Karma: 1,888
he says matter-o-factly
Oct 10 2011 11:48AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
I actually never thought about the fact that there's so much more that the money from that has to pay for. Now it doesn't seem like the prices are that unreasonable. Thanks for the explanation.
Oct 10 2011 11:49AM
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k-fred
Posts: 5363 - Karma: 1,598
well owner of ski shop do have 80k+ car and make ton's of money...maybe not the companie owner but the retailer do make ton of money.and to anwser to the OP, if you don't buy the new season pants you can easely get some brand new pants for 100$, all you gotta do is buy stuff after the ski seaon and you will get a lot of 50%+ discount.
Oct 10 2011 11:53AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
@ski@jaypeak2...(sorry quote function doesn't work on mobile app...STILL!) but this year I think your gonna be in for a surprise. Almost every company is purposely making very limited quantities this year and some companies are already nearly sold out. The point is to keep value up regardless of the economy and to avoid overstock at the end of the season. There are two reasons for this. One being that the banks are less likely to lend the extra money right now for more materials if the demand isn't there. The banks are taking a hardcore look at the companies track records and trends over the last few years and lending accordingly. The other reason is to ensure that the local shops stay in business. By making limited quantities they guarantee that all the product is sold at no less than street price before it's sold out. This allows the local shops to maintain maximum profit instead of getting stuck with overstock that they essentially have to almost give away at the end of the season. So good luck waiting on those skis you think your gonna get real cheap come spring because if it's a high demand ski, you likely won't be able to get them after January this year because they'll be sold out.
Oct 10 2011 11:57AM
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midwestpowhunter
Posts: 2198 - Karma: 189
while bitching about the cost of gas, a very self-wealthy successful friend told me "stop worrying about how much gas costs and start worrying about making more money" this quote is very applicable to you.
Oct 10 2011 11:58AM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
that's what i find to be the biggest challenge of finding older stuff. it's almost always sold out.
Oct 10 2011 12:00PM
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pghjibber
Posts: 1298 - Karma: 329
part of it has to do with the current sales process for ski equipment/outerwear...

that $200 pair of snowpants has to pass through several sales processes, and each person in the process has to earn a margin

the manufacturer might make the pant for less than $50 but as previous posters have mentioned, they have to cover the materials, factory labor, shipping, customs, design, salaries, and sales rep commission

then the company has to sell it in to the ski shops at wholesale (which for a $200 pant, would be roughly $100 on avg.)

ski shops have to pay wages + potentially commission to employees, utilities, rent, etc.

So it's not hard to see how the cost has to rise accordingly.
Oct 10 2011 12:00PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
@unclesam.....yeah and it'll be moreso this year, trust me. I'm currently trying to get a certain set of boots and a certain set of skis in a certain length. Can't find em. Called two of the companies and they're already sold out. It's friggin October!!!!. And I'm not talkin obscure shit here. One of the companies just got the ok to produce more product based on demand but I won't get it till December. It's friggin October!!!! WTF?
Oct 10 2011 12:06PM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,183
I did this exact thing too.

The key though is just save up everything you make.

Also, the reason it is so expensive is because of the small market. There are very few people who buy Saga and First Drop, compared to larger companies like Salomon and Columbia. The lesser quantity sold means the prices have to be higher in order to try and make a sustainable profit, in addition to the superior quality that is already present.
Oct 10 2011 12:08PM
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BWalmer
Posts: 9141 - Karma: 12,883
Shop owners have less overhead than the company producing the goods...yes, they still do have to spend a lot of money on rent, marketing, staff, and products. However, they usually do really well because for most equipment they have a 100% mark up (meaning they charge twice as much as they paid...if not more...this leaves them room to have sales and give deals to loyal customers on those goods and still make money. That being said, owning a shop (or any business for that matter) is a TON of work and even more risk...those guys put everything into their shops and if it doesn't work out they're screwed, so if they make it work they deserve every penny.
Oct 10 2011 12:10PM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
if it was cheap, it would be too easy to be a ski bum, and that would take all the fun out of it
Oct 10 2011 12:11PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2802 - Karma: 429
I dont know what companies you are talking about but every year marshalls will have a giant ski sale of last years gear. This is where i bought my orage coat for $75. Almost every mountain has a preseason clothing sale where LOCAL SKI SHOPS try to sell off their inventory from last year.

Even if the company sells out of their product, retail stores may still have it in stock. I think you are talking about brands like saga and other micro companies. They do try to sell direct to the consumer to increase their profit margin. However, that is not how most winter clothing companies operate.
Oct 10 2011 12:13PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
yeah most shops will have overstock, but the company and online dealers will not have any
Oct 10 2011 12:21PM
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Caspaaa
Posts: 4830 - Karma: 1,466
im not trying to be a dick here but dude, why complain to NS about this?

if it's really bugging you, and i mean REALLY bugging you then do something about it... at the least you can bargain hunt for lesser known brands and pay much less, or at the very extreme, start your own outerwear company that sells for cheap

all things aside, i agree with you that most outerwear is very pricy, but it's simply because out of 100 people only like 3 aren't willing to pay 200 bucks for their saga, and i applaud you for being one of those three
Oct 10 2011 12:23PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
@ski@jaypeak2....well I was mostly talking skis, bindings, boots, etc. I'm not an outerwear guy so I'm not gonna attempt to spitball that one. I'm just saying that from what I'm seeing, this years "spring/last season" sales are going to be dramatically different than years past. Highly doubt your going to be getting the high demand products cheap because they simply won't be there. And yes I'm aware that the shops have the product but even alot of shops are already either very low on quantity or already sold out of the high demand products. You'll see.
Oct 10 2011 12:26PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
I didn't mean to come across as complaining, I actually just wanted to know how much the companies are really getting out of it. I wasn't sure if the prices were so high because they can put them there, or if it was because that's what it's actually worth.
Oct 10 2011 12:54PM
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Shifties4Dayz
Posts: 1657 - Karma: 553
i actually dont think $400ish for a jacket/combo is that bad. ive previously purchased stuff from orage where the jacket can be close to $400 and the pants are around $300. but then again, the quality of products orage makes is out of this world, at least to me. Ive been skiing when the temperature is close to 0*F and had nothing on but a long sleeve shirt and basketball shorts on under it, where as with my saga i have to wear a few shorts and sweater/hoodies to stay warm
Oct 10 2011 1:07PM
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Jaymon
Posts: 860 - Karma: 1,213
i have done a lot of work with shops lately and i can tell you first hand that skis are marked up between 80 and 90 percent and that outerwear etc is marked up 100-120 percent.

so yeah, it is kind of ridiculous that you have to pay the shop twice what it pays the factory. In saying that it does mean they have lots of room to move around for prices if you ask nicely and justify your reasons for deserving to pay a little less
Oct 10 2011 1:31PM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11988 - Karma: 12,261
go buy some black 2xl ripzone pants for 40 bucks at sportcheck.
Oct 10 2011 1:36PM
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AWALLRUS.
Posts: 5762 - Karma: 223
YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.
Oct 10 2011 1:37PM
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SacZiplock
Posts: 2405 - Karma: 513
Truuuuee ! You pay for quality mostly ! Fosho
Oct 10 2011 1:41PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
You just have to wait for the perfect sale
Oct 10 2011 2:47PM
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J.M
Posts: 2854 - Karma: 254
does anyone know where to find last years gear?  ive been trying to find some jackets, pants, and skis. already been on evo and backcountry
Oct 10 2011 2:52PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
Sure, there can be anywhere from 80% to 120% markup, but what is omitted here is that retail stores have to sell products from companies at prices set by the companies for a certain amount of time. For the few companies that sell direct, is it any wonder that their prices are usually exactly the same as those found in most retail stores? They must maintain market value, otherwise everything would be sold for much, much less, and most stores would go under.

Buy last years shit (or... OLDER) or wait till January when people will start trying to really dump their inventory.
Oct 10 2011 3:12PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
With all due respect, why do you feel that it is ridiculous that you pay a shop markup? Those shops have rent on the building, payroll and taxes for employees and various other fixed and variable costs associated with doing business. If they sold everything at even just a 50% markup, they would likely be unable to cover their operating expenses and would be unprofitable and have to close their doors.



On another note:
What IS ridiculous is a manufacturer who sells to retailers, also selling directly from their own website for the same MSRP; effectively netting those markup profits without chalking up the overhead expenses that a typical retailer would have. It's a slap in the face to retailers everywhere and is just a dirty move.
Oct 10 2011 3:45PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467
I totally agree.
Oct 10 2011 4:02PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
i don't mind paying extra to support an industry i care about
Oct 10 2011 4:10PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7145 - Karma: 17,457
Something else no one has really picked up on here is that most ski shops do very little business in the summer, so for say 6 months of the year they make very little income. My old shop paid £30,000 rent a week. Now in winter thats small change (relativly speaking) but in summer when the shop may only take £1000 a day that rent gets very expensive. Also staffing a shop gets very expensive. If you buy a $400 boot from me, staright away half of that money is just paying for the product from the manufactuer, so that leaves $200. Then you have to pay me for my time which takes more money away. Then the shop needs power and heat thats not free, also the rent. We have to market the products to get you in the shop that costs money too. If you need the boot streching or heet molding, the equipment to do that is not free. It all adds up, so that $400 a customer gives a shop, proberbly only about $30 is true profit.

Also its true what mountainviper said. Companies used to make loads of gear to make sure they would not sell out. This however is not the case any more. Most companies make product to supply shop orders. The shop then sells that product but there is no more once its gone. So deels will get less and less untill the economy turns round. Also remember that paying the full price helps the companies make better products. As has been said above most money a company makes is reinvested back into new product. So if people buy used gear or wait untill sales your inpacting the quality of the product that the company can produce.

If you think skiing is expensive, take up mountain biking and then come tell me ski gear is expensive.
Oct 10 2011 4:13PM
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VanMelle
Posts: 1277 - Karma: 1,141
DAMN INFLATION!
Oct 10 2011 4:16PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Nope.

I'd prefer that if they are going to sell direct to consumer, then they not sell through a retailer as well. If you sell to retailers at wholesale, you should not also be selling direct to consumers.

I understand that the manufacturer is looking to increase their profits, but there needs to be some consideration for everyone else in the industry as well.
Oct 10 2011 4:29PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7145 - Karma: 17,457
^ definatly true on outerwaer, but actually with hardgoods it can bring shops some money. If a customer buys a ski and binding online, ill charge him to mount them. If he buys said ski and binding in the shop the mount is free. Shops make more money on labour then selling products. Same for boots, a kid buys a boot online, finds (unsurprisingly) it does not fit and brings it to get fitted. I charge him for all the fitting work, wheras if the same kid got the boot from my shop all his fitting is free of charge. So in someways shops can make money from online sales, but I agree that outerwear is harder, but you would still hope most people (maybe not newschoolers) would want to try the product on before purchasing.
Oct 10 2011 4:43PM
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whipple
Posts: 1415 - Karma: 5,167
you just gotta look around. hell i got that purple and black b dog orage jacket for 90 bucks at like tj max hahaha
Oct 10 2011 4:55PM
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Cab3
Posts: 767 - Karma: 50
yea it pisses me off that a good park ski is usually more than $500, yet they apparently aren't suppoed to last more than a season, since all warrantys i've seen are only a year. I just buy stuff that I get the best deal on as long as it's decent.
Oct 10 2011 4:57PM
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.spaghetticat.
Posts: 4283 - Karma: 890
XXL gsuit pants - 50 dollers
XL sessions pants- 40 dollers
L FD pants- 75


Sweet jacket - 50 dollers
special blend - 60

swag
Oct 10 2011 5:06PM
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LAME.
Posts: 5795 - Karma: 2,449
Used with dirt stains and holes?

And it's "Dollars" not dollers
Oct 10 2011 5:09PM
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