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FKS vs STH drivers

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andrew95
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 124
i hate to make a thread bout this but i finally got tired of my griffons and decided to try out a new pair of bindings on my new HHP's. So here it is, what one ns? i know people complain about the brakes on FKS for snow build up but they will only be used in the park and on groomers. I have yet to hear anything about the FKS 14 or 12 for that matter. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Oct 5 2011 8:08PM
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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
threads/
Oct 5 2011 8:08PM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
They are both great bindings but because the FKS hell has metal components it has been more durable. Also the turntable heel piece makes a big difference with pre releasing and with the health and safety of your knees. The only downside is that they are slightly heaviour then the driver binding.
Oct 5 2011 8:10PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
I'm a pretty firm believer in the STH Driver system. I rocked a pair for 4 seasons, it was mounted on multiple pairs of skis that all either broke, or died. The same pair is still holding up, but the springs have become worn, and I've fucked the heel plate on them. It can be an easy fix, and the worn out springs don't cause any pre release when I don't need it.
I just want new bindings. So I am buying another pair of STH 16s.
Oct 5 2011 8:20PM
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andrew95
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 124
thanks for both posts above, ill 10/10 you if your not already. I really like the drivers but i want something that is heavy and will last
Oct 5 2011 8:31PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Well you're looking at some of the burliest bindings in freeriding.
The STH's are big, bulky, and build to last. Want heavier and burlier? Go for the STH 16 Steel. Although you probably don't have the money for need for it if you're skiing park.

Trust me man, I'm throwing the STH 16 on my park and big mountain sticks again this year. They're a solid binding.
Oct 5 2011 8:45PM
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andrew95
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 124
im a skinny guy, only 150 at 5'8 so i wouldn't see the need to go over the 14's. I just dont know if i want the fks or driver, i think im going to go for the sth though
Oct 5 2011 8:53PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Yea, you defiantly don't need a 16 then. Get some 14 Drivers. Nothing different, just a 14 DIN instead of a 16. Probably start lower than 9 too. That's what I love about the 16s. Shop guy can't even set them legally.
Oct 5 2011 9:00PM
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SteezoSaurus
Posts: 2630 - Karma: 2,670
Keep in mind dins are that high not to be maxed out. You always want to be running in the middle of your din range. This will help to ensure the longevity of din tension in the binding.
That is why I chose the FKS xxl 180. I run a 14 din and that is pretty close to the middle of the range for that binding.
Concerning the STH, keep this in mind. The ride height on that binding is quite a bit higher than the FKS. This will inhibit stability and make the ride quality more unpredictable.
The low ride height of the FKS, however, really makes a ski feel low and solid particularly when landing jumps/cliffs into variable snow.

I swear by them in all conditions, particularly pow. They have saved my knees multiple times. Some people complain about snow clumping, however you just have to be conscious about cleaning your boots each time before you get in them.

These are easily the most durable bindings I have ridden. I am 215 lbs these days and these things will not break. That is a first for me.
Oct 5 2011 9:02PM
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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
which binding is lighter?
Oct 5 2011 9:02PM
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SteezoSaurus
Posts: 2630 - Karma: 2,670
Here are the two weights:

FKS 180XXL- 5 lbs 6 oz
STH 16- 5 lbs 2 oz

The FKSs are a bit heavier, however they are a much more simplistic design. Another perk is that the release is more predictable. I have never had these release once when I didn't know or expect it to happen.
Oct 5 2011 9:06PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
i've never had a single issue with salomon's 16 din bindings either. Both are the top end bindings on the market, which you prefer totally comes down to personal preference
Oct 5 2011 9:14PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
Do people not like Marker's for some reason. I always see a lot of people with them, but then I always see people bashing them on here. Personally I think I'm going to pick up a pair of STH 12's when I need new binders cause I'm small.
Oct 5 2011 9:16PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Grab the driver version of the 12
Oct 5 2011 9:19PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
oh yeah of course.

are people sketched out by the way Marker's are mounted or something?
Oct 5 2011 9:19PM
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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
i just stay away from markers because durability issue's on my friends
Oct 5 2011 9:23PM
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andrew95
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 124
i love my griffons but its a plastic binding, the fact that its plastic speaks for its self. I just want something that will last and i can bash around thats why im considering these two
Oct 5 2011 9:29PM
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Session
Posts: 5375 - Karma: 22,080
Glad the Iowa vote is in.

Both are solid proven designs.
Oct 5 2011 9:32PM
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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
probably ordering sth 14's when i order my FR's
Oct 5 2011 9:33PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14486 - Karma: 10,635
I like the STH heel better. The entire STH line uses the same heel piece. The 12 din has the same amount of metal as the 16. Very reliable binding. As far as clicking in when there is snow on your boots / bindings, STH wins by far.
Oct 5 2011 10:42PM
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SteezoSaurus
Posts: 2630 - Karma: 2,670
Absolutely agree. It really is personal preference. I have just found that from a big guys perspective, the FKS's seem to be superior.

But yes, both are great bindings and I'm sure OP would be pretty damn stoked on either one.
Oct 5 2011 10:45PM
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andrew95
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 124
no kidding, a big thanks to everyone that responded, i think im going with the 14 drivers
thanks again guys!
Oct 5 2011 10:52PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
Fks/look pivot for life. Best bindings without a doubt. Have a few hundred days of some petty brutal riding and they don't give a fuck.
Oct 6 2011 12:19AM
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Big_Spence
Posts: 16177 - Karma: 4,352
park skis=FKS
pow/all mountain=STH

i absolutely despise trying to get in to my FKS's if there is any fresh snow on the ground. FKS+FT's=nightmare
Oct 6 2011 12:27AM
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SteezoSaurus
Posts: 2630 - Karma: 2,670
The only time that I had this problem was in Sierra concrete. If OP is riding in dryer snow, this will not be as much of a problem.
Oct 6 2011 12:43AM
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Thick.Black.Gurl
Posts: 492 - Karma: 28
May be a dump question, but is there a difference between the FKS and look pivots? They seem the same.
Oct 6 2011 1:18PM
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andrew95
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 124
yeah, exact same just different colours
Oct 6 2011 1:41PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10581 - Karma: 11,150
I've gone back and forth between FKS and STH16/S916 bindings. I love them both, the driver toe from salomon is simply amazing. The FKS will definitely last longer than an STH series, but I still see all metal S916's from back in the day a lot.

I ended up preferring the salomon driver bindings just because of how many times I got crazy pissed fiddling with FKS heel pieces in pow, holy shit. lol
Oct 6 2011 2:09PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Another thing that I love about salomon is that they use the same drill pattern and pretty much any part for their bindings. I've used super old brakes on my STHs
Oct 6 2011 2:12PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868

The brakes on my FKS 180's came off a 20-some year old pair of skis from the city dump and we mounted them with a jig from the 80's... love it. Good designs don't tend to change much.

Personally I just can't go past the FKS metal toe. I mean come on, the top half is more or less a single hunk of metal. No toe wings, no BS, just the most rock-solid, direct connection to my skis I've ever had. Makes Jesters feel like rubber.

Oct 6 2011 6:46PM
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crawley
Posts: 605 - Karma: 729
.
Oct 6 2011 10:12PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
Both bindings are great, and I would use either of them in a heart beat.

For what it is worth, I will share my thoughts on the bindings.

P-18/FKS180/Pivot18 whatever the fuck you want to call it.
-Narrow heel pattern, where the screws are right under the boot. This keeps the binding from killing the ski flex behind the boot.
-Everything that interacts between the boot and the screws that go into the ski is metal. Everything. Metal on metal contact all the way thought the interaction. This keeps things stiff, and durable. I love it.
-Dynamic toe and heel. Skis great, very little dead feeling.
-high retention - low pre release. I ski my p18s at about 13 right now. I would ski a salomon at 14.
-Classic, if it isn't broke don't fix it.

STH 16/14/12 (drivers) STH stands for Steel Toe and Heel.
-Metal where it counts. strong interaction between ski and boot.
-rockfuckingsolid heel.
-bear trap heel click in. You fucking know when you step into that bitch.
-little bit lighter then a look.
-worm drive heel adjustment, it's easy and it is precise and strong.

STH 16 Steel / 916 / 920
-Same heel as in a standard STH 16, but fuck is that toe burly as fuck. The toe piece is increadably stable laterally, aka great edge hold.
-only gripe is expensive to get new and in the states. 916s are great though.
-strongest binding out there? (maybe Look PX 18?)


Oct 6 2011 11:04PM
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division.bell
Posts: 2762 - Karma: 1,905
Not to shit on your quality post, but I am pretty sure it stands for "Steel Track Housing."
Oct 6 2011 11:14PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
maybe, I made up Steel Toe and Heel. Both answers are true.
Oct 6 2011 11:38PM
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division.bell
Posts: 2762 - Karma: 1,905
Steel Toe and Heel sounds more accurate, Steel Track Housing sounds fucking lame.
Oct 6 2011 11:48PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10581 - Karma: 11,150
loved reading that, my thoughts exactly. It's a great feeling haha
Oct 7 2011 2:06AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
Except when you have a non-Driver STH 12. Pretty sure "STH" just refers to the heel tray, since the heel tray (and AFD) is the main difference between the Z12 Oversize and STH 12 non-Driver for example.


Oct 7 2011 3:19AM
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RascalWaterMox
Posts: 1288 - Karma: 163
Im 5'10" and 160 for reference. Definitely a 3+ level skier. Rock my DINS at 10-11

The STH never released when I didn't want them too, they always performed well BUT I have broken 2 pairs of STH on bad crashes and seen my buddy eric (5'8" 155 lbs) break a pair of sth 16s as well.

I now ride only FKS/FKX binders... used them as my main binder on my park skis last year... not a single complaint.

released when I needed, never tore up a thing on them... even in horrendous falls

I believe they are both great bindings, but the FKS is just structurally superior for holding up. Depending on your ski level the STH might be fine for you... check my photos for an idea of my skier type.
Oct 7 2011 10:10AM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
kind of, the new look pivots that look similar to the fks (the turntables) are the exact same, but for a while they didnt sell turntables and they had a binding called the pivot that looks similar to the current px series of bindings and they are not the same design as the rossignol fks, they are the same as the rossignol axial bindings.

Oct 7 2011 10:56PM
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ARMADAR7
Posts: 401 - Karma: 36
I have been thinking of getting the bindings too and my biggest concern is that the toe peice on the FKS 140 isnt as good as the toe peice onthe FKs 180 otherwise it would be easily the FKS
Nov 12 2011 3:19PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
It's still a pretty good toe and well suited to anything up to about 12 DIN... if you're running higher than that you should be on the 180's anyway, I reckon.
Nov 13 2011 7:21PM
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ARMADAR7
Posts: 401 - Karma: 36
is the fks 140 toe plastic?
Nov 13 2011 7:39PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
Yup, same toe as PX12 Jib only with a 14 DIN spring.
Nov 13 2011 9:29PM
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sNaubi
Posts: 1633 - Karma: 2,357
old thread but anyway... I have look px12's that came with my k2 domains (not mounted).

but I wonder if i should invest in a pair of fks 180 or sth 16 steel, they differ with about $30 with the fks costing more.

i'm 6'2-6'3 and 197lbs, i ride park, urban and a little all mountain. i like butters.

i don't have to much cash, so i might stick with the px12's but i just want to know your opinion.
if i do buy fks or sth's i can use them on new skis afterwards without worrying if they'll last so.
Jun 13 2013 7:40AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7145 - Karma: 17,457
^ have you been coming out of your 12 DIN bindings all the time? What din setting are you using. Going from a 12 to a 16 or 18 din binding is a pretty big jump and unless you need too may be a waste of money. You could get either the sth12 or 14. They are the same build a the 16 just with a lower din range. The fks 140 is not the same as the 180 but will still be a bit better then your px although the toe will be the same just differnt heel. This may help as you can use the old toe holes as long as they are not worn. Heel piece holes would be fine too as fks are set quite far in compared to px. But yeah first of all work out what din range you actually need.
Jun 13 2013 7:50AM
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sNaubi
Posts: 1633 - Karma: 2,357
as i said, they're not mounted yet, if they we're i would just stick with them till i buy new skis or they brake.

on my old skis i had look nx 11 set to 11, they held ok up but i was just waiting for them to release or snap everytime i rode them

and as i am tall and weigh thereafter (and not getting shorter or lighter) i was wondering if it would be a good investment to buy metal bindings and a din that i can adjust higher if i need to.
Jun 13 2013 8:27AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7145 - Karma: 17,457
If you already have the px bindings just use those. If you managed to ride nx bindings you will prob be fine. Nx bindings are useless so if you were ok with those then px is a massive step up. Like I said before if you do end up wanting to replace in the future something like a fks will be easy to remount. But for now just use te px. Honestly the jump from a nx 11 to a fks is ridiculous. You will be fine.
Jun 13 2013 8:50AM
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sNaubi
Posts: 1633 - Karma: 2,357
ok, but the main thought behind it was the durability and function, not the din.

but, i guess i'll save my money then :)
Jun 13 2013 9:04AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7145 - Karma: 17,457
My point was though that for you the px will be all you need. For me I can kick off a nx binding stood still. So I move up to a px or say a z from salomon but I still release constantly on that style of binding, so I step up until I find a binding which works for my riding style, and for me that's a 16 din binding. Now for you the fact you could ride the nx means going up a level to px will be more then enough. You will actually find the px is more durable then a FKS 140 anyway. They use the same toe piece and although the heel is goo on fks its a bit h to replace brakes. So until you find your constantly popping out of the px there is no point upgrading.
Jun 13 2013 9:33AM
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DeRizzo
Posts: 3827 - Karma: 3,485
I have STH 12's. I really like them and so far they have held up great. Never had FKS' though so I can't speak for them.
Jun 13 2013 9:55AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Yeah that's a lot of dude to butter @ a max of 12DIN. I'd honestly recommend going bigger and all metal at your h/w if you're going to be buttering your big ass around the hill a lot.
Jun 13 2013 11:06AM
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