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November, 2024

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Lolnikonlol

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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
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Oct 4 2011 3:07PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Of course they are going to say that, they are trying to sell cameras....
Oct 4 2011 3:44PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
People like to repeat that adage that you don't need to have good equipment to be a good photographer. That's absolutely true, and beyond just being a "good" photog, some people that can pull off being fine arts photogs and even commercial photogs with old glass and equipment, but the majority of people who are actually photographers as a profession ABSOLUTELY rely on good gear to make a living. I mean, sure big names in photography could make shit work with a set of MF primes and available light, but there's a reason we spend thousands and thousands on gear - because it's worth it to further your art and/or business.

Having the best gear does not make the photog, which is what this sounded like, which is dumb. A good photog can make good images with gear that is limiting, but when they are not limited by gear, they can make much better images.

The way they said it does make them sound pretty dumb though.

Oct 4 2011 4:19PM
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Raz.
Posts: 7456 - Karma: 1,611
haha I read about this on photoweeklyonline
Oct 4 2011 4:50PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I think that its actually more true to say that a photographers gear is only as good as its user. You can give an amazing photographer a point and shoot and get gorgeous results. But you give a crappy photographer an insane camera, you will still get crap.
Oct 4 2011 5:09PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Having good gear doesn't make the photographer, but it sure as hell helps a lot. You can't give someone a point and shoot and expect them to be able to turn out the same quality shots as a dslr, same with a t2i and a 1dmk4. Equipment plays a HUGE role in the final image. At the end of they day, it is still the photographer composing and editing the picture, but the gear they choose to use will drastically effect what they turn out.
Oct 4 2011 5:12PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
Equipment ENABLES the photographer to their fullest potential. This was just poor/crafty wording on their part.

Oct 4 2011 6:01PM
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erikK
Posts: 3245 - Karma: 2,329
They apologized to that post like the next day or something hahaha
Oct 4 2011 7:35PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
That's so funny.
Oct 4 2011 8:25PM
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Cop.killer
Posts: 99 - Karma: 14
Social media is used for marketing. Not informative/intelligent advice. /thread.
Oct 4 2011 9:17PM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,285
sports, portrait, and event photographers rely greatly on their equipment...
Oct 4 2011 11:38PM
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eheath
Posts: 61652 - Karma: 123,517
So you're saying a 10 year old could pick up a 10,000 dollar setup and get a professional result?
Oct 4 2011 11:42PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,269
I find i funny that people made a big enough deal to warrant further action from nikon.

And I don't think he meant that at all at whoever posted above me.
Oct 4 2011 11:49PM
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MACAQUE
Posts: 2811 - Karma: 696
No he's saying that a pro sports photog couldn't get a covershot on sports illustrated using a 1.2MP cell phone camera.
Oct 5 2011 12:49AM
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S.C
Posts: 3068 - Karma: 2,285
I never said completely rely, but greatly rely. you need the skills, but you need the equipment just as much
Oct 5 2011 3:48PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
and a pro can't pick up a p&s and get professional results either

gear plays just as big a roll as the photographer in the digital age
Oct 5 2011 4:05PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
Wrongo.
Oct 5 2011 4:12PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
ok landis, go buy a $200 P&S and try to get the same quality images as a 5dmk2 with a 135L, it's not possible. there is a reason people spend thousands of dollars on gear, because it enables them to produce the best photo possible. Digital rev does a great series on this topic

Oct 5 2011 4:29PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
You are only correct if you define "professional" as an image with high resolution and little optical flaws, none of which have anything to do with a person's skill level, let alone have very much to do with "quality photography."

I've seen pros produce better images with point-and-shoots than many people have with their 5DmkII kits. I've taken pictures with a $90 point-and-shoot that far exceed much of the stuff I've seen from DSLRs. And I'm not even a photographer.

I'm not denying that good equipment enables a photographer, but to think that a professional with a point-and-shoot is automatically disadvantaged to anyone with a $3k camera is delusional.
Oct 5 2011 4:35PM
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michelle
Posts: 6290 - Karma: 428
I agree 110% with this post.

Great equipment does not equal a great image. Also saying that a 5dmkII with an L lens on it creates a better image than a shitty P&S is also ridiculous, in my opinion. Yes, you can possibly get better quality (image-wise), but content is what really matters. And a shitty photographer with great equipment cannot compose the content effectively to get an awesome image.

This is going to be a shit-storm debate anyways. Why am I even posting this. Oh well.
Oct 5 2011 5:51PM
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kn0xville1g
Posts: 205 - Karma: 14
and who are you to even post that? with your knowledge on the subject it surprises not only me but others on this site i know for a fact that your 'portfolio' online consists of images i can get on my iPhone and p&s with a little vignetting, maybe barely adjust the WB, etc. you are nothing special.


seriously, i could have taken your little christmas tree photo with a flip phone moto RAZR back in the day. suspend the site and go practice.
Oct 5 2011 6:04PM
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EricaMN.
Posts: 2704 - Karma: 347
calm down
Oct 5 2011 7:55PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Precisely. Look at how many amazing street photographers still shoot on Stylus Epics, T4's, XA's etc. They are all basic, point and shoot cameras, yet people get stunning images out of them. Image quality is only a tiny part of what makes a "good" photo. Something most of NS, in their constant gear whorage, doesn't understand.
Oct 5 2011 8:28PM
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.cam.
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 48
Examples of your photography please...
Oct 5 2011 8:31PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
x1000
Oct 5 2011 11:05PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
This has gotten silly. Whoever runs Nikon's FB account mis-spoke, of course it doesn't take incredible gear to make an good image, even a professional and commercially viable image assuming that you can work with the limitations of the gear you are using and the environment you're in.

Ha ha ha, we all had a laugh. There's no need to assault people's talent, or spew the asinine argument that "YOU can't talk, YOU can't do any better!"

What defines a professional image? It doesn't ALWAYS mean a crisp and flawless image, but depending on the definition of "professional" you bet your ass it can. All the money I make comes from photo and design; unless an aesthetic I could produce with a POS is applicable, a client isn't going to be happy with a POS shot - therefore, I CAN'T produce a professional image with a POS camera... I need the gear that's necessary to produce the image that's required of me.

Of course someone without the skill and talent of a professional photographer could not pick up thousands of dollars of equipment, plan and set up a shoot, and get good results (short of luck). But, at the same time, a professional photographer isn't likely to be able to realize a project fully being limited by shit equipment, as shit equipment can be SO limiting compared to having the right equipment.

Saying good images can't be produced with shitty gear is dumb. Also, saying that having good gear is only a very small part of producing a good image is also pretty assumptive. The more limitations that would be imposed by having less or lower quality gear would make it harder and harder to produce relevant work. What bothers me more in M+A than people posting the same "I need more gear" thread over and over again is the pretentious attitudes people get in that lead to huge flame wars over matters of theory and opinion.
Oct 6 2011 12:29AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I didnt mean it to come off that way. I just feel like a lot of people these days try to compensate for a lack of photo knowledge through excessive gear. Ive always been a strong believer of upgrade when your equipment no longer allows you to do what you want to do. I think that by starting out with "crappier" stuff, it forces you to learn more about the fundamentals than just jumping in with nice stuff. And yes I know I sound like a grumpy old man haha.
Oct 6 2011 12:53AM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
No worries, I agree with you. I also think that everyone should start out with a manual DLSR, a 50mm a roll of Tmax and a darkroom. But, I do think that when gear is necessary, you should buy it.

I wasn't specifically directing that comment at you, it's a M+A trend that a lot of people fall to, I'm sure I have as well. I just think it's something that people should be conscious of.
Oct 6 2011 1:08AM
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Cop.killer
Posts: 99 - Karma: 14
I agree! I learned how to Develop and Enlarge this summer and it was loads more fun than shooting with my t2i and editing in Lightroom.
Oct 6 2011 10:08AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
you mad
Oct 6 2011 10:16AM
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Cop.killer
Posts: 99 - Karma: 14
You not talented
Oct 6 2011 10:45AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
and for those getting mad at me for posting this, I just thought it was funny for the normal saying to be flipped by them. Didn't mean to spark a huge debate.
Oct 6 2011 10:49AM
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wait.what
Posts: 1694 - Karma: 529
I still l u
Oct 6 2011 10:54AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
??
Oct 6 2011 11:19AM
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michelle
Posts: 6290 - Karma: 428
Both you and kn0xville1g, get the fuck out. We don't need that kind of attitude here.
Oct 6 2011 3:07PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
media & arts is starting to fucking suck with people like you
Oct 6 2011 3:13PM
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kn0xville1g
Posts: 205 - Karma: 14
nope. anyone with a minute knowledge of camera composition and lighting could look at my photos and other M&A photographs of anything and then look at yours and shake their heads with confusion.
Oct 6 2011 5:18PM
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NJurkiewicz
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 697
I know right?!?! Some of these new users are just ruining m+a.
Oct 6 2011 5:28PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
>your photos
>lacks pictures in profile or link to flickr in sig
>shakes head with confusion
Oct 6 2011 6:04PM
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Cop.killer
Posts: 99 - Karma: 14
Oh I am terribly sorry, I forgot that its all just about having fun, because of course thats all that there is to life. I will be on my way.
Oct 6 2011 9:48PM
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the.cheat
Posts: 2859 - Karma: 171
da fuck... easy to speak when you don't even show us your work... ANYWAYS, to willstart- i feel lucky because thats how i learned, unfortunately on a standard zoom and not a 50, but better then most others. i'm really happy it happened that way for me.
Oct 6 2011 11:32PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
I don't know what point you're trying to make, but being a jerk isn't helping anyone, it's just making you look like an asshole.

keep it up and you will be "on your way".
Oct 6 2011 11:38PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
wait what exactly are we talking about?
Oct 7 2011 1:05AM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
haha, think he was talking about my post. Orange name confusion? Real awkward...

anyways, yea, I think that's the way to go! I realize that's hard for people, but in the perfect world i suppose that's how it would be
Oct 7 2011 1:46AM
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the.cheat
Posts: 2859 - Karma: 171
shit yeah huge orange name confusion... my bad. but yeah. i gotta order some more b&w film. i have a good thread idea.
Oct 7 2011 12:08PM
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