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November, 2024

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Audio

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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
So lately I've been really interested in the audio side of film; sound setups can be pretty cool and i've started to suck in as much knowledge as I possibly can about it. I thought that because I shoot a ton of skiing, it would be best to get your guys' opinions on audio and how important it is in skiing/what sounds should be heard/what mic setups to use etc. So a couple of questions to spark some good debate:

What kind of mic's do you use in certain situations? Are you a shotgun mic user? hyper-cardioid? lav? stationary?
How important is audio to you in skiing footage?
What would be your ideal audio setup?
Audio outside of skiing?
Sep 18 2011 10:24PM
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403MEDIA
Posts: 272 - Karma: 4,803
when it comes to skiing, I think there should always be audio as long as its not wind noise. I love hearing landings and and skis sliding on rails or snow. But if its a follow cam and its just all wind noise then its not worth the audio, unless you have a deadcat or some way of stopping wind noise.

We use a standard rode video mic to capture 90% of our audio (the rest is just the onboard mic on a 7d or t2i). Probably going to invest in a deadcat this year as well as a mic we can give riders to wear while they are skiing and get some good/most likely funny audio that way.

for shooting other stuff, I would recommend something like a zoom h4n where you can use the onboard mic, xlr mic or plug in something like a rode mic to capture your audio at a higher quality and more control.
Sep 18 2011 11:18PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
imo, the h4n sucks. Get something with better pre-amps, like a tascam or roland. The roland r-26, tascam Dr-100, and dr-40 are all better choices
Sep 18 2011 11:29PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
just out of curiosity, why do you not like the h4n? i've been hearing a few people say bad things about it lately. i've only used it once, but i thought it was really good. much cleaner audio than i've ever recorded before
Sep 18 2011 11:31PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
weak preamps mostly. its so popular by DSLR users, but its pre-amps are no better than the gain in camera. I also dislike its menu system, the DR100 is LOADS easier to adjust levels, gain, etc. Only downfall is that it has no line input, while the dr-40 and r-26 both do (better for using a pre-amp or mixer)
Sep 18 2011 11:37PM
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@ScubaSteve
Posts: 378 - Karma: 822
Interesting..
Never had 1 problem with my h4n.  Skiing, and professional usage.
Menu is so quick and easy.
Sep 19 2011 1:28AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
I wanna start incorporating audio into my edits. Prob will get the videomic just because of the cost otherwise I'd get a tascam recorder and a lav. Good idea for a thread since audio is so much more important than what people make it out to be.
Sep 19 2011 2:33AM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
Funny...I thought I remember you raving about the h4n not long ago? But I agree, it's rubbish.


I think the sound of wind can add a great effect when used correctly. Also, good sound design never simply shows whats on screen. The whole purpose of sound design is to add new dimensions not visible on screen.
Sep 19 2011 3:31AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
I might have, but the more i've researched this stuff the more I find that it has so many downfalls that I don't see why it's so damn popular.
Sep 19 2011 9:15AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Just wondering but does anyone do glidecams with a shotgun/windscreen?

Wanna do this but since the videomic is the only thing really in my budget, but I figured the videomic's little VR rubber bands might cause abrupt changes in balance
Sep 19 2011 6:59PM
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.Max.
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 701
They're tight enough that I don't see them being any problem. It's a good mic though, I've been using it for about two weeks now and I like it. Not as good as some higher end XLR shotgun mics I've played with but hey, I don't have to worry about goddamn dual system synchronization.
Sep 19 2011 7:12PM
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403MEDIA
Posts: 272 - Karma: 4,803
once you balance your glidecam with your mic on your cam you will be fine. skiing with a glidecam at high speeds is going to affect the balance more than the rubber bands on the mic.
Sep 19 2011 7:18PM
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1337
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Anyone looking to get a recorder should get the Tascam DR-40. Let me rephrase that, anyone with a DSLR should get one. Under $200, XLR COMBO inputs (Mic/Line switchable!!!) ability to record a safety track (Same audio as track 1, just at a lower level, say -10db), and decent pre-amps. I'm getting one with a Sound Devices MixPre so I don't have to use its preamps, and can utilize its line inputs. Stoked on it!

Also check out the roland r-26 if you want something even better, ability to adjust L/R levels separately (like the DR100, but the dr40 cannot do this unfortunately :/), Line/mic XLR's, and only $500. I think its pre-amps are supposed to be some of the best of any sub-500 field recorder.
Sep 20 2011 5:29PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
can anyone recommend a good pair of studio monitoring headphones?
Sep 21 2011 6:38PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
I love the Sony mdr-7506. They have a really clear, balanced sound. And only $70ish too!
Sep 21 2011 6:57PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
awesome! I'll check them out!

And I just won a Sound Devices MixPre on ebay for $440, fucking pumped to have a pre-amp. Going to pick up a Tascam DR-40 pretty soon.
Sep 21 2011 8:38PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
whatwhatwhat?? Sick dude, that's a steal. I had the MixPre at the bottom of my list due to its cost. If I could score one for that cheap I'd have it sooner...
Sep 21 2011 11:08PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
ebay pro


teach me how to snipe bids
Sep 21 2011 11:10PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,813
from what I found on Band H it sounds like its not released yet? is that the case or am I lost. If you think Im lost, where do I order it? im sick of bad sound and I have a tonne of money now so Im going to get ordering.
Sep 21 2011 11:20PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
Buy from amazon, they have them in stock. B&H doesn't have any right now. But they are out there because people have been throwing up reviews left and right. You could also buy my DR100 which might bet better for you for $275 shipped :)
Sep 21 2011 11:33PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
oh oooh I want!

Why are you changing from a DR100 to a DR40?
Sep 21 2011 11:34PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
DR100 doesn't have line in, DR40 does. The Preamp puts out line level output, so I'm utilizing it on the recorder. Don't need the independent L/R levels because I'll be mixing with the mixpre.
Sep 21 2011 11:36PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
So basically the advantage is better sound when plugging into a PA mixing console?

I might have you buy your DR100...
Sep 21 2011 11:47PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
yes. And it records 4 tracks too, and you can set it so that you record a safety track at a lower sensitivity incase your first one is too hot

and if you want it, hurry up, i have two people who want it on dvxuser and cinema5d!
Sep 21 2011 11:54PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
In that case I think I'll pass. I need to buy a some guitar stuff first.
Sep 22 2011 12:05AM
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I.B
Posts: 8137 - Karma: 24,355
This whole thread is full of wat's for me.
Sep 22 2011 12:07AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
no worries, someone just bought it from DVXuser. 1 step closer to having kickass audio! I wonder how I'm going to set this all up on hill though... Maybe leave a bag of all the gear running next to a rail or have someone ski behind me as a boom op? that'd be hella legit!
Sep 22 2011 1:15AM
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Brentizzle
Posts: 1584 - Karma: 1,871
really think thats all necessary for filming skiing? especially on hill skiing.
Sep 22 2011 1:22AM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
I personally like to man-purse the interface and just take a few laps capturing stock audio to foley in post. Live audio rarely depicts the visual in a way I like.
Sep 22 2011 1:25AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
you really can get away with doing shit like rails/taps/landings via foley? thats hella impressive. I see that as really hard to do, and I'd rather get the live audio somehow
Sep 22 2011 1:47AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
meh, it could be a little overkill, but I'm hoping to really hop on my audio game and pioneer decent audio engineering into edits, something I rarely see in videos these days. I think its an interesting concept!
Sep 22 2011 1:51AM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
IMO it's easier than recording sound and video simultaneously, and it allows more creative freedom.

This entire video was foley'd. Doing the bike jump at the end is no different than ski footage.
Sep 22 2011 1:51AM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
Necessary? No. If you wan't to make something better than 98% of ski videos, yes.
Sep 22 2011 1:52AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
that was impressive as fuck
Sep 22 2011 1:55AM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,465
man that was real sick

as for audio, i'm picking myself up a videomic pro. any concerns? i've used a videomic quite alot but like the feel and design of the pro over the latter
Sep 22 2011 9:43AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
what camera are you using it on, a t2i right? with ml thats not an awful combo!
Sep 22 2011 10:12AM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,465
i shoot with a 7d

anyways for uses i have a few interviews to shoot for my buddys ski movie, and besides that my focus with the mic will be shooting with it on my glidecam this winter and of course for anything else that requires audio
Sep 22 2011 10:31AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
hmm, invest in an external recorder, AGC will fuck your shit up no matter how good of a mic you use
Sep 22 2011 10:36AM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,465
haha i am well aware, but at this point i don't think i necessarily need an external recorder. an h4n runs around 300 or so correct? Audio isn't my biggest concern, although good audio when it's good helps a lot. I am just looking for better than my shit internal audio right now
Sep 22 2011 10:43AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
Zoom H1, under 100 and can utilize your 3.5mm mic!
Sep 22 2011 11:03AM
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Mkvackay
Posts: 1903 - Karma: 5,465
Ahhh that would be real sick
Sep 22 2011 11:13AM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
its a no brainer really...
Sep 22 2011 11:24AM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
Right now all I have is an Edirol R-09 recorder. I don't even own an external mic; I use the built in condenser. Total cost: $70 used.

Everyone should have at LEAST a cheap recorder that takes 3.5mm microphone jacks. You can get phenomenal sound so long as you design it correctly. Can't say much about the fidelity of the audio itself, however. But what do you expect for under $100?

Creativity will get you further than equipment will. Always.
Sep 22 2011 11:48AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
So I just started looking at portable recorders... I want ns to decide my next and possibly only audio/video purchase for a little while

Tascam DR-40 or Rode Videomic?

I was thinking the tascam just because A) better audio B) Headphone jack C)I could use it in interviews for decent audio considering I don't/won't own a lav for some time. Any other opinions/options worth looking at?
Sep 22 2011 9:40PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
splurge and get the dr-100. You can adjust the L/R channels independently which will be a huge bonus when you are doing that kind of recording without a pre-amp.
Sep 22 2011 9:49PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
If I miraculously shit out $100 before I order the dr-40, ok!
Sep 22 2011 9:56PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
you should have bought mine, i was selling it for $275 brand new
Sep 22 2011 10:49PM
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Troy.
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what is an audio recorder and why would I want it
Sep 23 2011 10:27AM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
K so next question about remote recorders,

how do I go about using one on the mountain? I usually do a lot of my shooting on a glidecam, don't know how I could go about also carrying a dr-40 so it could effectively pick up audio. Much interested to hear people's methods before I go about purchasing one.
Sep 26 2011 8:18PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
i think my setup is going to be this:

glidecam, with hotshoe shock mount with shotgun in it on camera, long XLR cord running to a bag with my preamp and recorder inside of it.
Sep 26 2011 8:31PM
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andstuff
Posts: 1118 - Karma: 61
I just stick the recorder in my chest pocket. Then I make laps holding a boom pole while wearing headphones.

If you're trying to mount to a camera, you're going to need an accessory arm/rail system.
Sep 26 2011 10:45PM
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