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Marker jester forward pressure adjustment ?

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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
So, a small note, i just got a pair of jesters ordered online and i'm planning to mount em myself, i had already drawn out center on the skis etc...
I was about to begin on the mounting jig, but then, while having a drink, i was reading through the manual and i saw that forward pressure on the jesters is correctly adjusted when the adjustment screw is lined out/flush with the housing...

Long story short, i already have a pair of jesters on my Ep pros, mounted and adjusted in a shop and when i snap in, the screw sticks out about 1 or 2 mm .... (so according to the manual they're not properly adjusted)

when i adjust it like in the manual, so its flush with the housing, and i step out of the binding and want to snap back in, the heel of my boot is clearly overlapping the heelpiece cup, so i cant snap in unless i bump the track back a bit, and consequentially have improper forward pressure adjusted ....

never had problems prereleasing or anything, i was just wondering what you NS shop techs think about this ....

Short story:
if forward pressure is adjusted properly like in the manual, the bindings are too small for my boot, what's up in here ?
Sep 14 2011 12:12PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,458
I have found this before with marker bindings. It is correct that the screw should be flush for correct forward preesure adjustment. However with certain boots this setting will result in a slight overlap in the heel of the boot and the binding. In this instance you have to slightly wind the screw back as little as possibly untill the boot fits. Usally though you should be able to get pretty much flush and still get the boot to fit. Having the screw slightly out I mean 1mm or under will be ok. Its one of the reasons though I switched bindings. I always found the heel piece very tight and it also held my boot to high when engaged. It contacted the shell of the boot not just the din tab when engaged.
Sep 14 2011 3:31PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
thanks buddy!

and yeah, they are a tight fit but then again i've been riding them for all of last season and they performed excellent ! (even tough according to the manual the forward pressure is too low ... )

Sep 14 2011 3:54PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
with ski season in front of the door and already hearing horror stories of torn acls and ski tech rants, anyone, preferably shoptech or someone who knows their shit, can confirm this ?
Nov 7 2011 6:45PM
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45.
Posts: 3164 - Karma: 170
You should be fine. More often than not a ski boot shell is off by 1-2mm from what is stamped. If your bindings were mounted properly with the jig, the tech would have set it for the marked BSL. Which in return, would lead to your forward pressure being of by a tiny bit.

Summary: You should be fine if its only off by a tiny amount.
Nov 7 2011 6:54PM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
what kind of boots do you have? I assume they are normal alpine boots without rubber soles?

There is no vertical toe height adjustment on markers, so I guess it could be that the toe isn't properly fitting in the front of the toe piece and therefore the heel will be too far back. I have mounted/adjusted tons of bindings including markers at my shop and have never really run into this problem. I would suggest jamming the toe in the front if it is a tight fit and then clicking the heel in. The heel piece DOES move back when the fit is proper in order for the forward pressure to be correct, but if you can't step down at all because the heel is so far back I guess you would have to move it back to get it to click in.

In short, I would do your best to get the screw flush, but if you can't no matter what you try and have skied fine with it before on another pair then I guess you could do it again, but it is definitely not adjusted as the bindings were made to be and the DIN and release settings are almost definitely not up to standard. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
Nov 7 2011 7:03PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
well, my boots are nordica ace of spades, they're normal alpine boots but they do come with vibram soles...

anyways, i ride jesters on my EP pros (shop mounted) and coreupt Tj schillers, (own freehand mount)
and both have the same problem ..

do you really think the vibram soles could make the difference ?
(now that i'm thinking about it, this could actually be a valid point)

so the logic behind it would be that the vibram would sort of jam in the toepiece, not allowing to enter properly because the heel of my boot is basically overlapping with the edge of the binding heelpiece cup ?
But once my heel slaps down and my boot is horizontal, the toe end of the boot is only making contact on the plastic toecup above and on the plastic slider/contact plate below of the boot (see picture)and the toe will fit properly and therefore slide forward a bit, thereby decreasing the forward pressure....
Click for larger image

this could be a valid explanation ....
Nov 7 2011 7:17PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
^^for the records, the boots are still quite new, 50 days on snow and the bindings are brand new ...
Nov 7 2011 7:20PM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
^^didnt want to quote the whole post

YES I do think that is the source of your problem, when I have had a trouble getting boots in alpine bindings it has been because they have had a rubber/partial rubber sole. Jesters do have a fairly large AFD plate (metal sliding thing that helps you release sideways) that sticks up and i think the rubber is probably having a hard time sliding in as you said in your post, but once clicked in, your boot is functioning as normal. I can't know without seeing the connection between the two, but that may be your problem. Unfortunately, I dunno how you would fix this other than jamming the toe in, clicking in and then adjusting the screw to be as flush as possible while still being able to click in normally.

To edit my first post, I have seen this problem occasionally, but never with normal alpine bots, only with ones with rubber.

Also, if the front toe plate is slightly curved, for easier walking, and not perfectly flat it could cause the problem too
Nov 7 2011 8:02PM
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prometheusprime
Posts: 735 - Karma: 677
When the FP is correctly set on royal family bindings, it's a super tight fit. The heel will back out slightly to accommodate the boot. Keep the forward pressure correct no matter how tight the fit is. That binder sucks to begin with, the last thing you want is incorrect FP.
Nov 7 2011 10:52PM
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Jacobsen
Posts: 112 - Karma: 18
Bringing this thread back up with a question regarding this.

I've just gotten some AK JJ's with dukes, but the shop didnt have my boots while mounting them, so I need to adjust the heelpiece myself, and I read that the screw should be flush with the housing. I adjusted the screw so it was flush, but noticed that the fit was alot tighter than I was used to from the two pairs of shopmounted jesters I also have. (although, I had no problems clicking into my dukes at all) I therefore checked the screw on my jester pairs, and they were both sticking 1-2mm out. Is it my dukes that have the correct forward pressure, and my two pairs of jesters that need to be tighter? Or should the dukes be a tiny bit looser?
Nov 27 2011 10:16AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
I'd say the dukes are correct. Every royal family binding I've ever owned is super tight and real tough to enter/exit. They keep me in though. I have yet to experience pre release on em.
Nov 27 2011 10:35AM
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jibjunkie
Posts: 3807 - Karma: 191
thought this was a good thread to dump my question as well. i bought a pair of used k2 kung fujas with schizofrantic mounted on em at a swap. upon bringing them home i noticed that the heel part where your boot heel steps down upon is awfullt close to the brake. like the brake is almost touching it but is below. my boot clips into the bindings fine but the forward pressure screw is a few mm out of the housing. when i took them to the shop he said i basically have them all the way at the front of the track. he said they would work but i told him i planned on getting new boots soon which would prolly be like 20 mm less in bsl and he said a remount would be necessary. my question is since they are schizos cant i just move the binding back and then i have more room on the track to adjust or is the schizo part completely different than the binding adjustment?
Nov 27 2011 10:40AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Schizo part is different. Never tried moving the toe and heel piece independently though. They're connected by that cable and move together. I know you couldn't seperate that on the old ones but maybe the new ones?
Nov 27 2011 10:47AM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
Hey all,

Thought I'd post here again after going back home and mounting a shit ton of bindings over thanksgiving break, I hadn't mounted any this year before that.

The new Jester and Griffon have a toe height adjustment (I think to remedy the problem addressed earlier about alpine boots with rubber soles or boots that have a very tight fit in the toe). The correct adjustment for toe height is that a business card (I believe like .5mm or something) should slide under and out from between the toe sole of the boot and the toe of the binding, but not very easily so that it almost can't slide any more. The Duke and Baron have always had this adjustment to accommodate for touring boots with vibram/rubber soles, so if you think that it is fitting to tight in any of these new bindings, check the toe height and see if the toe is fitting properly. The forward pressure screw in back should ALWAYS be flush when the binding is adjusted properly for toe height and forward pressure.

As for the schizo question, I do not have a ton of experience with them, but it sounds like they were mounted for a boot that is a decent amount larger than yours. It seems possible, although I am not sure because I don't have much experience with them, to adjust for a bigger boot and allow it to fit in the way they are mounted, but as I said, I am not sure. If it was possible, I believe it would change where your boot midsole lines up on the ski therefore making the ski perform as though it is mounted some amount forward or back from where it was previously mounted. I would suggest having them remounted when you get your new boots, just to be sure they will perform correctly and you will be able to mount them wherever you want (ex. at the suggest factory location, center mount, wherever). In general, I think people make too big of a deal about multiple mounts in their ski. So long as it is done correctly with holes at least 1cm apart and old holes plugged, it does not ruin the integrity of the ski.

As a disclaimer, I DO NOT suggest you adjust your own bindings unless you have been properly trained by a shop. A shop will usually look at them for free and do an adjustment for like $15...a lot cheaper than an ACL repair. Also, I extremely DO NOT recommend mounting your own skis as it is very easy for a competent mounter to mess a mount up with the proper tools, never mind without a jig, vise, collared drill bit, etc.

Hope this helps and keep the questions coming if that didn't clarify them!
Nov 27 2011 2:37PM
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jibjunkie
Posts: 3807 - Karma: 191
+k
Nov 27 2011 3:50PM
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