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The best way to honor 9/11 victims this 10th anniversary

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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47

Demand the truth about building 7.

Sep 4 2011 11:37AM
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Chubz.
Posts: 13918 - Karma: 25,661
awesssommeee
Sep 4 2011 7:00PM
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thedawg
Posts: 730 - Karma: 452
theres only one way to find out...someone from ns has to become the president...
Sep 4 2011 7:18PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
I don't believe that the president set it up, but I believe he knew about it and just didn't really see it as a threat. the movies on all the conspiracy's are really interesting though.
Sep 4 2011 7:20PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
a bit unrelated, but i love the way people slag off bush as being our dumbest president ever...then credit him with possibly the most involved conspiracy of all time.


There is proper ground for suspicion regarding building 7, but at the same time you also have to realize that there's nothing to compare such an event to. We can't recreate what happened, and we can't compare it to anything else because it's a totally unique scenario.
Sep 4 2011 8:00PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 36,027
Was he saying that office materials cant create a fire hot enough? Would there also be jet fuel in with that which I would imagine probably burns really hot.
Sep 4 2011 8:33PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
PhD is just 3 letters that dont mean as much as people think.
Sep 4 2011 8:41PM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
no plane hit building 7 and the NIST report claims that office fires fueled by furniture and paper burne hot enough to melt the steel....LOL
Sep 4 2011 8:41PM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
you cant have a PhD without being a pretty smart person
Sep 4 2011 8:43PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 36,027
oh fuck wasnt thinking
Sep 4 2011 8:49PM
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bigbromskier
Posts: 1175 - Karma: 330
a lot of it is definitely really hard to believe........I'm surely a skeptic, but to so blatantly attack our own country for whatever reason means that our government was ridiculously desperate or just plain out of control.

Here's a better way to honor those who died: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2011%2F08%2F31%2FDD7V1KRH2S.DTL

Move on and build a really nice space for reflection and human interaction. Looks like it should be a really nice place to hang out.

The flight 93 memorial in pennsylvania looks really nice too.
Sep 4 2011 9:07PM
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.Tom.
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 910
If anything these videos, both the for and against, show how easy it is to create an extremely compelling argument, sometimes using gross misinterpretations and claiming facts and certainties where there simply aren't any.

People seem to hear the word expert/fact/undeniable and instantly trust the person speaking or believe whatever is said. As I said, this goes for both the conspirators and the non-consprirators.
Sep 4 2011 10:37PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
Yes you can. I have had some professors who are "Dr's" and got he PhD's. They were some of the dumbest people ever. Some are very smart yes. But some are also very dumb and just good with tests and school.

Book smart does not equate to intelligence.
Sep 4 2011 10:42PM
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AWALLRUS.
Posts: 5762 - Karma: 223
QUOTING FOR TRUTH

SOME OF THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE I KNOW GET ALL 90S
Sep 4 2011 10:47PM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47

I understand what youre saying and i respect your opinion but a lot of the evidence used in the video has been tested scientifically with no bias and thats kinda hard to argue with. But you are absolutely correct about how easy it is to argue one side or another, i just feel that the public deserves to know the whole truth and the fact that the government would hide anything from the public is ridiculous. The NIST report claims a fire on the 24th floor (i think) but pictures taken document fires on that particular floor burned out. Plus there is a lot of history of building fires much hotter and much longer that did not result in collapse. The building descended in freefall for the first 100 feet, which would suggest that all 17 steel beams gave way simultaneously, which the report claims that only one beam gave way resulting in collapse, which is possible but not a complete freefall for 100 feet that is not possible. Stuff like that just makes me want to know the whole truth

Sep 4 2011 10:51PM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47

One of the people being interviewed was a professor at the University of Massachusetts and was awarded the national medal of science...these people are incredibly intelligent.

Sep 4 2011 11:11PM
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straightlining
Posts: 238 - Karma: 139
Nothing against Americans, but why are you so paranoid about your government?
Sep 5 2011 12:06AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Because there is a horrible president in office. Gonna get hated on for being a republican.
Sep 5 2011 12:24AM
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Ryan.Street
Posts: 444 - Karma: 20
i am gonna make a video... and people are going to follow me
Sep 5 2011 1:19AM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7479 - Karma: 36,027
no fuck you (this happened when there was a republican president) the reason is because large corporations and greedy fuckheads who cant agree on anything run our country.
Sep 5 2011 1:31AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
IIIIIII'm sorry, but this was completely out of line as NSG's 9/11 anniversary thread.

9/11 conspiracies are just bullshit. If you really check some facts, much of what they believe has been debunked by scientists and the 9/11 commission report, and the conspiracy believers automatic response is to discredit or try to work them in as additional conspirators to the overall "master plan". A plan that is thousands or more times complex and layered with many levels and many MANY people... lets just face it, the most complex thing our government has gone and done and had to cover up in the last 50 years was Watergate, so no, I just cant see anyone pulling something as elaborate as that off.

Not during that administration anyways.
Sep 5 2011 1:38AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
You had me with the first sentence, but I disagree with the rest. You referenced the Commission Report as a reliable source, which forgot to mention an entire building.


That aside, you all suck for bringing hate in here to someone trying to pay tribute.
Sep 5 2011 1:47AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
I will recognize that bush was in office when all of this happened. And I don't think Obama is all that bad, its' just that he's not "god" like everyone see's him. He's just like every other president. Big Corperations suck. Mostly because of Unions.
Sep 5 2011 2:18AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Sorry for the dub post. but the thing you really have to analyze is the problem with our house and senate.
Sep 5 2011 2:26AM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
Alright, I'll bite. I'm in a good mood, and have some time to kill. And I love changing people's minds about this stuff.

[0:30] "And yet, we have no examples of large fires. 8-10 small fires is what we have the worst fires on video and photographic evidence"
Fires were reported by firefighters IN THE BUILDING on floors 6-14, 19-22, and 29-30. Floors 7-9 and 11-13 had heavy fire fire conditions that burned throughout the the floors from the fall of WTC1 until the collapse of WTC7.
Click for larger image





[1:30] "Does it bother you that this building came straight down (let me finish) straight down as fast as a freely falling brick?"
Actually, it fell to the south. I could type about it, but we'll let pictures and video show it.


And as you can see in this high resolution picture, the building directly to the south (right side of the pic) sustained major damage from WTC7 falling. If 7 had fallen straight down, little to no damage would have occurred to that building.
Click for larger image

And since we're on the topic, the collapse did not take 7-8 seconds like people claim, but 16-18 seconds. This is indicative of a "domino" like effect vs. the controlled collapse.









[2:29] "In fact there's several tons of molten iron found in the base of all 3 of these towers"
This is just an outright lie. There was no molten iron found in the base of any buildings. It has been admitted by pretty much everyone that the fires weren't hot enough to liquefy steel. HOWEVER, the fires WERE hot enough to liquefy aluminum, which was very prevalent in the WTC's. Small pockets of molten aluminum were found in the basements for weeks after the collapses. Red hot steel and iron were found, due to the duration of the fires that were burning. But no, it was not liquefied.





[3:08] "Thermite. Thermite creates molten iron as it's biproduct. And we have the chemical evidence of thermite in the dust, in the molten iron, and slag at the ends of the beams."
Well, I'll just post this again:

The most telling statistic can been seen at [3:12].
"The two main byproducts of thermate are aluminum oxide (41%) and barium nitrate (29%). Both are unique to thermate and would have no reason to be found at the WTC- except through the use of thermate. However, the USGS no Steven Jones himself report finding any traces of either of these elements".
So...all the elements of thermate are found at WTC (which can also be found in multiple other places at WTC), but not a single byproduct of a thermate reaction could be found.





[4:42] "They (firefighters) weren't in the building to fight the fire though. They weren't fighting the fire"
He's actually right here, but his point is completely useless. Yes, there firefighters weren't in fighting the fire. Due to the collapse of WTC1, the entire water system in that area had been compromised, and water operations were no longer able to continue. However, firefighters were still in the building attempting rescue operations. When chief Daniel Nigro decided that conditions had deteriorated too much, he told everyone to "pull" from the site. In the world of firefighting, "pull" is essentially GTFO.






[5:30] "Fire would have brought the building down, if it would have at all, because it never has; a high rise steel frame building."
But, like was said, this is a first time scenario. No building has ever sustained that amount of damage (which by every firefighter's account, was a hole at least 20 stories large), and also sustained over 8 hours of fire impingement with absolutely no attempt to control, either by manpower or automatic systems.




This was fun. What else can I change your mind on?


Sep 5 2011 2:26AM
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Steezy_IN_KC
Posts: 2033 - Karma: 1,607
Just because you speak the loudest doesn't always mean that you are correct.
I can easily talk over someone but that doesn't make me right.
Sep 5 2011 3:04AM
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BE..
Posts: 1185 - Karma: 81
Well for one, even a small scale nuke would be enough to take down a majority of new York city so there is no way it was nuclear. Also cancer is really not the primary problem that the first responders are dealing with in regards to health. And third, there is no way that building could be brought down with such precision with one simple explosion. Also this was after the initial hits and thus it would not be chronologically possible in the first place......
Sep 5 2011 3:11AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Paying tribute is posting a bullshit conspiracy video? What world do you live in?


Sep 5 2011 4:22AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
it saddens me to know people are still naive/stupid enough to believe this was the work of osama and his dune coons. ever heard of war profiteering? this isn't the first time your atrocity of a country has done something like this either. coughpearlharbour
Sep 5 2011 4:39AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
You are so fucking stupid it cannot even be put into words.


Click for larger image
Sep 5 2011 4:45AM
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.R-Lohin
Posts: 1686 - Karma: 117
woah woah woah you have no idea what your talking about did you watch the video how does the building implode from a plane, Bin laden obvs want to take the credit from 9/11 to scare the American people on what alqueda and do... after the FALSE claim of WMD's then why was there a reason to keep fighting in the war of iraq...
Sep 5 2011 4:48AM
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Gstrong
Posts: 4776 - Karma: 519
Us lost 3000 people boo hoo, way more innocent civilians die from American military in afganistan and shit
Sep 5 2011 4:51AM
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Gstrong
Posts: 4776 - Karma: 519
Oh, and I didn't read anything In this thread
Sep 5 2011 4:54AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Strong argument bro
Sep 5 2011 5:28AM
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AOTEAROA
Posts: 2216 - Karma: 15
REST IN PEACE to the victims, and vibes to the families.

But yeah Western (in particular, American) imperialism kills 2,753 people on a weekly basis, probably daily. Lets rememeber these victims too. And stand up to stop all atrocities worldwide.
Sep 5 2011 6:17AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Lol WAT? I never recalled hearing anything, ever, about Pearl Harbor being a "set up." And i've taken some conspiracy theory classes at some private schools as extra classes. I do recall them saying that the American's knew that the attack was going to happen about 30 hours before hand from an intercepted message. And that they let it happen to allow them to have involvement into the war.

Her argument is right though. It wouldn't be the first time our government has done something corrupt like this. I do recall the US doing some pretty barbaric stuff in Laos/Vietnam? Can't really remember exact details at I learned it like 4 years ago. But they took troops and went town to town killing every civilian in sight. It was a secret mission that got let out later and there was a lot of turmoil over what was going on. Wish I could remember it to make my argument more valid but i'm too lazy to look it up.
Sep 5 2011 6:24AM
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Rodigan
Posts: 1299 - Karma: 1,859

My thoughts.....

I was sat watching the sickening events unfold on the BBC news from the very start and the weirdest thing was that the news reported that building 7 had just collapsed when in the background you could clearly see it was still standing. Although this is strange and there have been many theories for it i beleive that we will never find out the entire truth of what happened on that day. The conspiracy stories will never go away but in the interests of the families effected this should be the last thing brought forward during this month of rememberance. A high percentage of families didnt even get their loved ones home to have a funeral.

Dont think about who was to blame on Sep 11th, think about those who died, their families and the amazing bravery and courage that the police, fire and rescue showed on that day.

So to the people of NYC and those affected throughout USA ......much love from the UK, we will never forget.

Jonny

Sep 5 2011 10:17AM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
did you watch the video i posted? Regardless, the NIST report claims one column failure brought the whole building down in just under 7 seconds. That is obviously not the truth, along with the fact that it is physically impossible for furniture and paper fires to burn hot enough to melt steel. Impossible. Im not implicating anyone, all im saying is the governments account of what happened is complete bullshit and the fact they wont release information because of public safety is comical.  Like someone else already said, its quite easy to make a case for either side of the argument, but what you cant argue with is scientifically gathered conclusions versus a NIST report which didnt even test for thermite, or explosives simply because they did not expect any to be there. That is the most unscientific thing you can think of.
Sep 5 2011 11:19AM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
and your claim that the building took 16-18 seconds to come down is outrageoous.
Sep 5 2011 11:21AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
That's what i was more getting at - it was used as a way of initiating involvement in war at their own peoples expense. In my opinion, there's not a major difference between killing your own citizens and letting them be killed.
Sep 5 2011 11:41AM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
no molten iron? are you fucking stupid? there is tons of photogrpahic AND physical evidence of molten iron.
Sep 5 2011 11:46AM
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iggs
Posts: 827 - Karma: 39
im pretty sure a dirty bomb would be clearly noticeable if it blew up. they're not just small explosions but another idea is that the government or someone was hiding radioactive stuff within the wtc when it collapsed and the government didn't release all the data because they were trying to cover up something that ws hidden within the wtc 
Sep 5 2011 11:56AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
And it was a bit more than that...1)all imports of American Petroleum into Japan were halted, 2)all Japanese assets in the United States were frozen, 3)public loans were made to Nationalist China, and 4)military aid was supplied to the British. It was highly provoked, and i would even say it could have been prevented if not for the aforementioned shit stirring.
Sep 5 2011 11:59AM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
please take your Pearl Harbor debate elsewhere.
Sep 5 2011 12:04PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
It's quite relevant to the thread IMO. Has to do with conspiracy theories.
Sep 5 2011 12:32PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
Fuck off. Nobody innocent deserves to die, you dont have to disrespect the 3000 people who died on that day because innocent people are dieing elsewhere.
Sep 5 2011 12:34PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,455
You guys fucking suck for debating this in a memorial thread. I'm talking to both sides of the argument.
Sep 5 2011 1:09PM
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PurpleDino
Posts: 1513 - Karma: 483
Thank you for making the argument for me.  People need to realize the NIST report was not done in a scientific manner.  It's something you learn in highschool science labs, you don't even think about the conclusion until you have collected all the data that you can.  They thought they knew their conclusion, and continued to base their data on that.
Sep 5 2011 1:38PM
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eldridge
Posts: 2272 - Karma: 47
this thread is not about conspiracy theories, its about a conspiracy theory, WTC7. Those two events cannot be compared and my intention in creating this thread was not to create a thread that sparked debate about other conspiracy theories but just this one. So please, keep the discussion about WTC7.
Sep 5 2011 2:08PM
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Hoppy
Posts: 685 - Karma: 95
It isn't a memorial thread. The OP disguised it as such with the thread title, but then hijacked it and started talking balls.

I usually find 11/9 sympathies over the top, and the 10th year means nothing, (its no worse than the 9th).

BUT

3000 people did die, firefighters and police did stay in the building to try and get people out, even though they knew it was prolly gonna collapse and they deserve respect and condolences, so someone go make a legit memorial thread.
Sep 5 2011 2:19PM
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