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Gun Control Laws

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smeeze
Posts: 879 - Karma: 126
I personally think a person has every right to own and use firearms in a responsible way. Thoughts?
Aug 30 2011 10:05AM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
Another good point

Dec 21 2011 1:31PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
C'mon, write your own points and opinions and stop quoting videos.
Dec 21 2011 1:39PM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
Gun control doesn't work


Dec 21 2011 1:41PM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
These videos convey the facts much better than I or any of us can. 
Dec 21 2011 1:43PM
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.Annydrew.
Posts: 749 - Karma: 38
USA = 4.8 Deaths (per 100,000 people) = Guns are legal
UK = 1.17 Deaths (per 100,000 people) = Guns are illegal (except Shotguns with a shotgun licence)

Point proven.
Dec 21 2011 1:45PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
I'm just popping in to say that assault weapons should be banned in the us.
Dec 21 2011 1:45PM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
Most are
Dec 21 2011 1:47PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
Also, i quote earth the book: "assault weapons allowed people ti shoot multiple rounds without pausing to reload or question the fundamental morality of their actions"
Dec 21 2011 1:47PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
take them away from the government too then.. until then ill gladly keep buying and harmlessly using my assult weapons just like basically every other legal assult weapon owner.


Dec 21 2011 1:52PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
The goverment uses them for military purposes, ie kill people. That really is the only thing those guns are meant for, and no civilian should have access to a gun like that. Imo.
Dec 21 2011 1:54PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Again with the whole big, scary government thing. It's not like you are an oppressed people nor are there steps big enough to enter such a state of governance before anyone acts up on it. And no, you wouldn't require weapons to do that.

The case of evil government is overplayed (for you maybe underplayed?) to the point where you have to realize that maybe instead of defending your right to arm yourselves, you could think of the fact that government employees are still people. The higher ups are still people. Who is the government?
Dec 21 2011 2:00PM
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anomalous
Posts: 87 - Karma: 15
So Mike-O does not have to condescendingly ask me, I am 22 years old and a proprietor of minimal gun control. Guns should be legal to law-abiding citizens with no previous felonies or misdemeanors that involve violence. I own three firearms; a Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm, a Ruger LCP .380 for conceal-carry, and an 8 round Mossberg 500 Persuader shotgun. When I obtained my conceal-carry, I took a 12 hour class that included everything from range time to an overview of the possible legal scenarios that stem from an engagement with a firearm. I regularly go to the range and practice with my weapons.

I am a senior at The Ohio State University and I live half a block from campus. During my sophomore year, a man was brutally assaulted in the alley behind the house I shared with 8 other roommates. One of the men who assaulted him took refuge in our kitchen and no less than 20 police officers rushed inside to apprehend him. A good friend had their apartment broken into junior year during spring break and had around $5000 worth of belongings stolen. During my four year term here, I have read at least 15 police reports of students being assaulted and robbed either at gunpoint or "implied gunpoint".

Do not attempt to create the illusion that the world is a soft, cuddly place filled with people who will do you no harm. Do not be naive enough to actually believe you will never be placed in a situation where you may have to defend yourself. Too often in this thread, valid points have been brushed aside. I will not address most of them as I feel the right to protect yourself is the only validation one needs to own firearms.

I agree that owning firearms is an enormous responsibility. The legal and fiscal ramifications are frequently misunderstood and underestimated. However, firearms provide a "peace of mind" factor that is, to many, worth the risk.
Dec 21 2011 2:08PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Valid points. I haven't meant to sound condescending, it's mostly due to the grammar and style of some replies that I've asked. Age is an important factor when it comes to conditioning the beliefs of the family, friends, neighbourhood, schools (county, state) and country of such heavy issues. I've already said that earlier and apologized.

I don't know what you mean about painting a picture of a soft world out there, it can be a cruel world pretty much anywhere you are or go. I just still don't think it can be denied that the availability of firearms and the inherent risk your willing to take and create will carry on in the future generations, when the simple fact of defending yourself seems to be a thinly-veiled "kill-or-be-killed" agenda.

Dec 21 2011 2:21PM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
Well said.
Dec 21 2011 2:29PM
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anomalous
Posts: 87 - Karma: 15
I agree with your point as well; perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more on the gravity of the decision to own and carry a firearm.

I am all for a mandatory CCW class that provides a foundation of knowledge for new gun owners. I also don't mean to sound like the stereotypical paranoid "world is out to get me" type individual. I will be the first to walk away from a conflict, and I am prepared to surrender any type of materialistic possession in the event of a robbery. What I will not tolerate is the notion that serious physical harm will be brought upon myself or a loved one without due cause or justification.

A firearm should not be toted about; nor should it cause it's owner to become bold and broad-chested. It should be used as a last resort when all other options are exhausted, but I maintain that it should still be an option. My examples above were merely real world scenarios that I have been exposed to that have led me to these opinions on the matter.
Dec 21 2011 2:36PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
Its not so much that i feel we are oppressed or anything like that. its more preventing the government from gaining any more power over the people. and the government is not a government of the people anymore, politics is a profession, its not like it used to be where your normal average citizen would contribute. being a politician now is a full time job, and because of that they are more concerned with money and getting re-elected than with the well being of the people, because they arent part of "the people" anymore, many things that apply to us dont apply to them.
so without getting into a shitty politics debate, ill just say that its not a government of the people anymore, its the government vs the people. and the people are the ones that need more power not the government.

a lot of my belief in relaxed gun control laws applied to government is related to the police. I personally feel that the police, like all government, needs to fear the people. it keeps them in control and keeps them from abusing their power. dissarming the citizens is a very good way to give the police/government more reason and ability to abuse their power even more.

anyway, you keep handing your rights and your power over to the government and its very possible that we will become "an oppressed people" i know a lot of people think this kind of thought is over reacting, but its happened in the past countless times. probably more times in a government than not. and just because its the modern age where everyone feels safe and comfortable doesnt mean it can happen again.

if anything its contribution to giving power to the citizens, contributes to the well being of our country i guess...


Dec 21 2011 3:03PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Thanks for clearing things up.

I just think that in many European countries, there is no talk of "the government" doing this and that, and aside from some outliers I've never even heard that we should fear the government. I do agree that US politics are FUBAR - no one who has a say in a country's business should be allowed wages in the millions and taking money and deals from lobbyists, but yes, no more about that.

I just think it's so weird to have a now seven-pager of a thread and there's a pretty clear line between US members and members from other countries - you say guns okay, we (mostly?) say nay. Facts are represented left and right where some say more guns equals less crime and more sense of security, and others say that less guns equal less crime and moreover, gun-related deaths and accidents and no loss in sense of security.

I love this discussion.
Dec 21 2011 3:35PM
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JIBpsy^^
Posts: 2851 - Karma: 36
So are you trying to tell me that shovels dont dig holes people dig holes. Cars dont transport people people transport people. teeth dont chew food people chew food. Bombs dont  level cities people level cities. screwdrivers dont screw screws people screw screws? I am sorry but i hate that argument. A gun is a tool for killing nothing fucking else.

here are 5 reasons you are wrong about gun control


http://http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think.html

Dec 21 2011 3:44PM
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Jthoms
Posts: 201 - Karma: 13
I definitely disagree that the police should fear the people. That seems completely backwards to me. Perhaps you mean that the police should respect the people and their rights. Also it's not like the entire police force of America is waiting for a chance to abuse their power. I don't completely disagree with you here but I feel like it could be worded differently.
Dec 21 2011 3:51PM
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Jthoms
Posts: 201 - Karma: 13
His point is that the people who kill others with guns are most likely not psychologically fit to have one in the first place. He means that owning a gun doesn't make you a killer, it's your decisions as a person that lead you to killing. I think that's what he means at least
Dec 21 2011 3:54PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
yeah, I missed that one, I agree that it seems very backwards. The police who, at the most basic level, work to protect citizens and uphold the common laws, should fear the citizens they are trying to protect?
Dec 21 2011 3:56PM
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lifesadream
Posts: 161 - Karma: 145
Lolz. Cocaine is illegal
Dec 21 2011 3:59PM
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lifesadream
Posts: 161 - Karma: 145
Ns mobile cut me off... So would making guns illegal fix that problem
Dec 21 2011 4:01PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Cut off or not, I suggest reading the whole thread.
Dec 21 2011 6:12PM
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PlaygroundRapist
Posts: 1307 - Karma: 26
Countries by intentional homicide rate per year per 100,000 inhabitants.
The legal definition of "intentional homicide" differs among countries. Intentional homicide may or may not include infanticide, assisted suicide or euthanasia.

United States: 4.8
Netherlands: 0.87


In the Netherlands guns are strictly controlled, Only citizens who are hunters, members of shooting sports clubs or legitimate collectors may obtain licenses for firearms. stringent rules apply to get a gun license. Guns may not be carried around in public.
Dec 22 2011 8:45AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Sounds about as strict as getting a license in Finland - I posted the requirements on the first page.


But I think you've substituted most weaponry with... bicycles.

It's deadly out there, the bicyclists have no mercy.
Dec 22 2011 9:21AM
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steezeknees
Posts: 819 - Karma: 9
It was at this point that i realized that your a fucking moron.
Dec 22 2011 11:20AM
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Logey.
Posts: 2996 - Karma: 457
I love you gypsy
Dec 22 2011 11:38AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,122
I think to obtain a long barreled gun you should only need a acquisition license and a short gun safety course. For handguns I think they should be highly regulated and not allowed to be carried in public.
Dec 22 2011 12:01PM
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EastCoast315
Posts: 3136 - Karma: 137
Why is the government authorized to kill people, yet those underneath its reach are not? We're all people.

Dec 22 2011 12:09PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
Do you understand what the military is?
Dec 22 2011 12:18PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
im all for gun rights, but i think they should be very very restricted (who can get guns/what types of guns are legal) i could go further
Dec 22 2011 6:46PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Yes. One reason for that violent culture has a basis in your gun worship. I don't think that can be denied.
Dec 23 2011 6:43AM
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Smuffy
Posts: 4685 - Karma: 3,407
definitely. living im living in germany right now, and compared to americans theres almost no "i need to defend myself from the government" stuff. a policeman got shot in my city about a month ago, and it was making nationwide news, it was like the first time a policeman had been shot in at least 10 years. and guess what? there are extremely strict gun laws here. it seems blatantly obvious to me that less guns equals less people getting shot. and for the record, if you are a sport shooter or hunter, guns can be purchased if you go through the right process.
Dec 23 2011 10:42AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
If I recall correctly, only one police officer has died on duty in Finland in the past 10 years and he shot himself by accident and bled to death.
Dec 23 2011 10:52AM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
I am done with this thread, you are completely ignorant for some reason.  You mind doesn't ever look both ways and you ignore important points away from your opinion.  You have the mind of a nasty dictator.  Why have you come to hate guns so much?  The more freedoms leaderships take the more constricted and unnecessarily controlled  we get.  You are now just going to make some ridiculous claim to try and make me sound stupid.  Open your mind!!  There is more to this society than you and what you believe. 
Dec 23 2011 11:37AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I could say the same to you. If there's one thing I am, it's definitely not ignorant. I listen to your opinions (videos you post), understand where you're coming from, but still disagree. This is a discussion on a very tough issue, and you call me a nasty dictator. What?
Dec 23 2011 11:47AM
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purpletie
Posts: 11 - Karma: 9
More people cut their wrists retard
Dec 23 2011 12:25PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
First off, if you haven't figured it out. I love guns. I think they are the best thing ever. They look cool (mostly), they are fun to shoot, and they kill things. I love everything about them. I carry one on me pretty much everyday, I shoot them regularly, get new ones when ever I can and salivate over the ones I can't.
That said, calling mike-O ignorant, or close minded is unfounded. The guy has an opinion, and is willing to back it up, and has actually shot a gun or two in his life. He rates an opinion in this thread.
Dec 23 2011 12:56PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
And there are obviously many, many people with similar opinions. It's not like I'm trying to sway you or expect you to go 'Poof!' and stop loving guns, just representing my angle. The thing is, people seem to get all agro when subjects are this touchy.

And thanks, you too are a man of principle.
Dec 23 2011 1:32PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
its really fucking scary how many different types of people are out there packing. I was paying a speeding ticket in Missouri and in the 20 minutes I was there there was at least 10 people there to update their conceal and carry permit, black, white, rich looking, homeless looking, even a 60 something year old woman came in
Dec 23 2011 2:24PM
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ride-rider
Posts: 1761 - Karma: 20
I am sorry the Dictator comment was over the top.  But I really don't see you listening to other peoples opinions and you certainly rarely ever understand where we are coming from. 

You are entitled to your opinion, and to disagree.   However, to make comments such as these don't allow any of us pro gun to voice our opinion fairly.  Again sorry for the dictator comment lol.  

Sorry, but that's sounds like some crackhead from the corner signed on to NS to give his "verdict".

 

This is the worst excuse for having guns that I've ever heard and it's one of the only ones I keep hearing repeatedly.

 

Yeah, I read the whole thing but you're whole point went out the window with that one.

 

Anyway, the points about recreational sports, fun hobbies and the possible need to murder someone entering your property is exactly the kind of wazoo I'm talking about here...

 

If you are seriously talking about "effectively wounding" people then you'd better get your head checked.

 

Not to sound condescending, but how old are you?

 

Again, how old are you, buddy?

 

I' ain't trolling shit, you goddamn cuntburger.

 

You're statement is full of idiocy, fallacy and fear.

 

I see your from New Hampshire, but how old are you?

 

How old are you? Seriously.

 

C'mon...is that all you see? A gun away from you is a gun to a criminal?

That's fucking pathetic.

 

So, you are a 16-year-old.

Sorry for wasting my time on you.

 

Pertain to me since I don't live in NS? What the fuck does that even mean?

Learn to write coherent sentences and maybe you'll receive coherent replies.

 

You're talking about war, you fucking idiot.

 

You really are pathetic, and I feel bad saying this to a kid who's the same age when I joined NS, but Jesus Christ, get your shit together and don't be such a fucking retard - maybe you'll go somewhere in life.

I cry inside after reading this post...

 

I'm sick and insomniac, you underaged cocksucker.

 

Just give up.

 

...yet we are not in ancient times now.

 

Be bored somewhere else, yeah?

 

You know Nugent is insane, right?

That was one of the worst proponent opinions for this subject that I've ever heard. Seriously, if there are less guns on the streets legally, there will be less gun crime, highly plausible.

Dec 23 2011 2:38PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
You know what really defines someone's character? Taking angry quotes and posting them out of context.

I apologised for the age/cuntburger comments, as for a lot of those others you should really look again as to what I was replying to. I don't think I've replied degradingly to any opinion that actually had weight and the poster's willingness and ability to back it up. The only thing I do here is listen, I want to learn why so many people feel this way about guns.

I'm not the only one in this thread on this side of the fence. It just happens that most members seem to be American, hence believing in their rights and freedom to express themselves, be it with guns or without. That's what makes this an interesting discussion, but stuff like "This is America, we like guns, end of story" or this, what I replied to with the crackhead comment:

"oh theres lots of reasons, the main one being checks and balances, if the goverment is th eonly ones with weapons then the government is the only ones with power. And lots of people like to hunt and sport shoot too. And even if they did take guns away bad people are still gonna kill people they'll just use knives or hammers or run you over or something"


I don't know man, you tell me.
Dec 23 2011 2:51PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
I think this anti government, government is the enemy, type mindset in americans comes from the fact that our country was founded on the idea of minimal government, the people having power over the government, and the government being made up of normal citizens.... The US has definitely gone away from this and IMO its a huge reason for why our country has gone downhill, especially recently. we have good reason to not like the idea of our government having power over us, as it definitely has not helped us.

Personally i would never trust in my government, especially before id trust in the citizens. id rather trust citizens with guns over police.


Dec 23 2011 9:22PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
Meh. The bottom line is Gun Control does not stop violent crime, its been tried and tried and it still hasnt succeeded. You wanna stop violent crime? Then start with the criminals. Ill bet violent video games/societal trends have a far larger effect on violence in society.
Dec 24 2011 1:59AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
No, I saw those facts and I'm not gonna argue against them. It still won't affect my stance on this issue.
Dec 24 2011 4:15AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Against your phenomenal fact throwing skills, I doubt I'd be able to come up with anything.

There is logic to other things outside simple numbers. The stance on gun laws and regulation is deeply affected by cultural and national views, just as the feeling of safety. Most people in Finland, at least those who voice their opinions as I do not have any reliable poll or percentages available, would never want more guns on the streets. I'm sure I could say the same for the other Nordic countries and most Western European countries.

The three major gun crimes in Finland (Jokela massacre, Kauhajoki massacre and the Sello shootout) were all done with weapons purchased by the killers and in the Sello case purchased by a gun enthusiast in Norway and subsequently stolen from him, ending up in the hands of Shkupolli.

It's an issue of heart and ethics and why we have ended up in a situation like this as much as it is about cold hard facts.
Dec 24 2011 4:37AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
You just don't understand that on this side of the pond, most law-abiding citizens don't even want to carry guns. That's the starting point. Your logic and statistics represent things in favor of self-defense and crime prevention by civil weaponry, my logic and knowledge represents the fact that here people believe that more guns on the street represent more problems.

Cultural and national boundaries.

Dec 24 2011 5:01AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
All sober, thanks.

I don't think there's any inconsistency, I'd say I've been pretty damn consistent on this issue.
Dec 24 2011 5:20AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
While you're at it, could you tell me how I am being ignorant?
Dec 24 2011 5:28AM
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