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Google Hands European User Data to US Intelligence

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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
What is it with that goddamn Patriot Act that somehow seems to affect even people and businesses who don't believe in having their privacy and personal data compromised and are certainly not citizens of a country that upholds such a travesty?

Click for larger image.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-Admits-Handing-over-European-User-Data-to-US-Intelligence-Agencies-215740.shtml

"Google has admitted complying with requests from US intelligence agencies for data stored in its European data centers, most likely in violation of European Union data protection laws.

At the center of this problem is the USA PATRIOT ACT, which states that companies incorporated in the United States (e.g. Microsoft, Google, Amazon) must hand over data administered by their foreign subsidiaries if requested. Not only that, but they can be forced to keep quiet about it in order to avoid exposing active investigations and alert those targeted by the probes."




This compromises not only personal data, but business data as well. It's already causing an uproar here and some companies are thinking of withdrawing their technological assets and services away from US-based companies.


Get your shit together.
Aug 11 2011 10:53AM
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DirtYStylE
Posts: 3652 - Karma: 8,888
I am fine with this

The government has always had this kind of power. They can get what is in their reach at any time. The internet has never been a safe place to store personal data that you would not want to be seen.



Thats why I am always careful what I post(anywhere on the internet) because its permanent. It can always come back to bite
Aug 11 2011 1:36PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Hey, you can be fine as fuck with this for all I care, but if it extends OUTSIDE the jurisdiction your country and breaks other countries' and unions' laws is where a lot of people say "Nu-fucking-uh."
Aug 11 2011 1:39PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
k, and what the fuck you gonna do about? Dont use companies that were incorporated in america and you'll be fine. Oh wait, your country hasnt produced a god damn thing that is useful, so you have to use other countries applications and inventions...and because of this you have to play by our rules.

dont like it? dont use it!


but really, it sucks but thats just the way it is nowadays.
Aug 11 2011 1:43PM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
here comes the shit storm
Aug 11 2011 1:46PM
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DirtYStylE
Posts: 3652 - Karma: 8,888
Word









I dont think the internet has a jurisdiction
Aug 11 2011 1:50PM
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AWALLRUS.
Posts: 5762 - Karma: 223
FUCK THE POLICE, AND WELCOME BACK MIKE-O
Aug 11 2011 1:54PM
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Mr.Turtle
Posts: 3690 - Karma: 96
the whole patriot act should be illegal in the first place but theres also no way they should be using the patriot act internationally. especially if they force google to keep quiet which I'm pretty sure violates free speech
Aug 11 2011 1:56PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
Click for larger image
Aug 11 2011 2:24PM
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john.stossel
Posts: 943 - Karma: 5
by this measure theres probably alot of pharmaceutical companies that want me dead, because of how much shit i talk about certain american drugs (methadone etc...)
Aug 11 2011 2:30PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
no, just NS does...
Aug 11 2011 2:48PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
oh yeah dude. for sure.
Aug 11 2011 3:43PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
"play by our rules"...why does this national pride thing have to come up now? It almost sounds as if you are happy with the way YOUR rules overrule everything else. Can't admit that privacy concerns in countries like the US or the UK are treated like sh**? :/ I'm happy for google and facebook and all that and YES, brainy people have way better chances of making it BIG in the US than in Europe, but if they make business in our countries, they should play by OUR rules, not the other way round. And these rules (talking about Western Europe) are far from perfect, but certainly better than a "Patriot Act". After all, it's not even the companies but rather the paranoid national security that tries to get more information out of everyone.
Aug 11 2011 4:15PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I don't understand any person who would actually supress their rights for more "safety" and "control", but the main issue here is that if you want give 'em up unconstitutionally, then go ahead, but this is internationally illegal! It's not a question of dealing with it, it's a question of abolishing it.

Jesus Christ, I'm so pissed at all the world right now, especially in the Nordics, dancing on the Oslo victims' graves and trying to set up new laws and restrictions to limit free movement, free speech, privacy and anonymity while the potato is still burning hot and bouncing around from official to official looking to boost their own wish-wash agendas so the somehow now-conformist populus is adhering itself to an actual "Big Brother is Watching" -society!


I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.
Aug 11 2011 4:36PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
Idk about the other countries, but Norway doesn't seem to be the best example for a society turning into a 1984 state. I'd say Stoltenberg was a prime example of how to handle a crazy situation in a calm, assuring and positive way. He never talked about new laws or more control, he always insisted that Norway will face terror with even more freedom and liberalism.
Aug 11 2011 4:42PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Yeah, sorry, I meant that the event spilled into other countries' affairs in a very wrong, demeaning way to the victims' memories. It's a real shitshow in Finland.
Aug 11 2011 4:45PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
Same in Germany, although not in forms of laws. Makes me sick to see how everybody tries to use tragedies for their own means. :(
Aug 11 2011 4:54PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
its not a national pride thing. The US govt wont see your info if you dont use those sites. So dont use them. If you want to use those sites, be OK with the consequences or start your own company.

Its like the Law. You might not agree with it, and it might be stupid, but you know its there and you can either follow it or not...but expect the consequences if you dont follow it. In the meantime try to change what you think is wrong with it.


I understand that its a slippery slope to big brother, but giving up a little privacy is OK in my mind when every terrorists in the world is trying to stick it to my country.
Aug 11 2011 4:58PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I actually thought you were trolling in your earlier post, but you're clearly off your rocker.

This is not about starting companies or not using something. This is about another country's government using an already unconstitutional "law" affecting itself to completely illegally, as in BREAKING THE FUCKING LAW, intrude in other countries' matters and privacy.

It is not a law that touches me. Yet it seems it could. I am not OK with this bullshit and neither is the European Commission.
Aug 11 2011 5:08PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
Come on, I thought the "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" argument was getting old. Know how many countries have used this phrase to oppress their people? Prime example: Eastern Germany until 1990. They wanted to protect their citizens from the neofascists from Europe and America by greater means of security and constant surveillance. It sounds weird nowadays, but they really thought they'd be protected from "terrorists" from the west. Well we all know the truth, don't we?

You know that small steps can already cause a faceplant on a slippery slope?...using your metaphor. ;)

Aug 11 2011 5:13PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
If the European Union deems it illegal, then sue the shit out of Google, and Amazon etc. Then Google will cut off service to those areas because of the risk of lawsuit. Problem solved.


Ive never thought anything i said online or electronically was private. Its when the govt starts to physically intrude on my privacty that i will not stand for it.
Aug 11 2011 7:18PM
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CAPSLOCK*
Posts: 345 - Karma: 19
The truth is only a perception. There is always more than one truth depending on where you're standing.

Back to the subject, here's my 2 cents.

I think it's very unfortunate that the US government has to go this far in the name of national security. The fact is the US have pissed a lot of people, justified or not, in its history. Just like every other empire, the more they grow, the further they need to go to protect themselves and that becomes especially critical when no nation can out power your army, you now have to face guerilla enemies like the talibans.

Now Mike-O is pissed as he should be since the US are breaking every law possible doing what they're doing but unfortunately for him, they have no choice.

I truly beleive these events are signs of a decling empire struggling to stay on top. Just like the Romans with the Barbarians, the Americans have allies and enemies amongst the Muslims (this is an analogy, not a comparison) and need to hire 3rd party militias to ensure security in lands they can't always occupy. Just like the Romans, the Americans are getting fatter and fatter as they are getting closer to the end of their reign.

I honestly take no pleasure in seeing a nation decline little by little like this and unlike most people outside the US, i appreciate a majority of Americans but that doesn't change the fact that the US are not what they used to be. Unfortunately I think the only event that could propel the US back to their dominant state is a 3rd world war, not the kind of thing you wish for.



Now to lighten the mood, here's a hot girl

Click for larger image
Aug 11 2011 7:33PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
That would make sense for things like blog/community posts, but not for mails or private messages or things you book/buy/sell... They should be treated the same way things were treated before the computer age. You would certainly mind if someone was checking your private mail (as in: letter), so why should e-mails be treated differently?

A person that has nothing to hide simply doesn't exist. Those who claim they don't might not even know that they in fact did have something to hide and someone else discovered it secretly without telling them. Imagine you having an illness that might force you to quit work after 5 years. If you told your employer, he wouldn't employ you. Now what if this information had to be stored and somehow got through to your employer?


There's nothing conspirational about the rejection of the "NTHNTF"-myth. It's pragmatic reasons that should stop us from waiving our rights. It's not me wanting to stop people from knowing about my mysterious secrets, it's about me excercising my rights as a citizen.


Aug 11 2011 7:41PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
You know what I mean (=you know how it ended/who had the better arguments), don't nitpick. ;)
Aug 11 2011 7:44PM
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CAPSLOCK*
Posts: 345 - Karma: 19
the communists had amazing arguments except for the fact they disregarded human nature :P
Aug 11 2011 7:53PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
Who said something about communists?
Aug 11 2011 7:57PM
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CAPSLOCK*
Posts: 345 - Karma: 19
you did!
Aug 11 2011 8:05PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
Not really, I talked about Eastern Germany, not communists. Read a history book.
Aug 12 2011 6:16AM
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CAPSLOCK*
Posts: 345 - Karma: 19
Eastern Germany was communist until november 9 1989, read a history book
Aug 12 2011 4:36PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
You're a complete joke. First of all, it was state socialism, not communism (not by definition, that is). Almost every communist rejected the Soviet Union and its satellite states. Second, it didn't end on 11/9/1989. What on earth have you learned at school? :D
Aug 14 2011 5:26AM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
WRONG.
Aug 14 2011 5:28AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
"Signle" yourself out of the crowd and get banned already~
Aug 14 2011 6:06AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Why doesn't this surprise me at all?

Oh and to people saying you should watch what you put online, according to the laws I know (national and international) in my little European country you are still the only rightful owner of that data, if you email to a company (with i.d. verification) you can inspection the data they have collected about you. And let it be destroyed. No company may hand over the personal data of their clients over here to a third party in that way. That Google is an American company, that doesn't matter, they also operate over here and thus have to abide to our laws, not the other way round.


Aug 14 2011 6:35AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
so sue them and kick them out. until your country does that, google will continue to punk the shit out of your laws.
Aug 14 2011 1:03PM
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vauban08
Posts: 575 - Karma: 119
I don't think so. Germany last year had a huge debate about whether Google should be allowed to put up pictures in Street View - many people had privacy concerns. At the end, the big public pressure forced Google to give every citizen the right to have their house pixeled in Street View.

So no, your "either we abide google's laws or we have to kick them out" is false. Google needs its users, therefore it usually respects countries' laws sooner or later.
Aug 14 2011 1:14PM
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Tha_Wizard
Posts: 836 - Karma: 1,249
i agree with all of that. but whats more fucked up is that people know this stuff happens, people are aware of corruption in government but no one does a thing. It just gets progressively worse. Its just a matter of time before it fucks us all.

Aug 14 2011 1:38PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Blind acceptance under the veil of something else, be it for increased security or moderation of hate speech, when the accepting is done you're already down the road of signing off most of your other rights.

Seems to me that the people who have been scared stiff with terrorism scares have actually forgotten that their ancestors fought tooth and nail for those rights they are so willingly floating away.
Aug 22 2011 4:20PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
wow now i'm glad i don't live in the US AND Europe.
Aug 22 2011 4:25PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
It's all going to shit everywhere. Relatively speaking, of course.
Aug 22 2011 4:41PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
it seems to me that people care more about owning whatever the next Apple product is than what's actually going on in the real world. like, "who cares that we have the highest debt in world history, at least we can buy iPads."
Aug 22 2011 4:45PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
"...now IN WHITE!!!"

*stock soars sky high*
Aug 22 2011 4:46PM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
all of you guys just come on up to canada, we need a few extra hands. As a bonus, our government has been completely retarded for years, its not new and frustrating for us! we are used to it. plus we gots the snow for the skiing. you know what im talken aboot eh?
Aug 22 2011 5:27PM
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LeadThug420
Posts: 869 - Karma: 26
I'm only mad that they got caught.
Aug 22 2011 5:31PM
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