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Current Economic Environment -- Are We Fucked?

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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
So, who else thinks we may be fucked? Unemployment is still high, Europe could completely bring down the whole system 2008-style if they don't figure out a plan quickly, and growth is anemic in virtually all developed nations.

Also, there's a rumor that S&P could downgrade the USA after markets close today. What a shitstorm Monday could be.
Aug 5 2011 3:42PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
When 20% of the country can bring the entire country to a grinding halt... yes, we're fucked.
Aug 5 2011 3:45PM
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[cmyk]
Posts: 261 - Karma: 177
at this point im hoping for zombie apocalypse. it would be much more fun than becoming homeless.
Aug 5 2011 3:46PM
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marsh.
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 1,403
img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZEK5Zodu5efucpTQ6rswkXpbIwbmbRa3xsmo_nhGvsQzAb7aH[/img]
Aug 5 2011 3:48PM
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marsh.
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 1,403
fuck me

Click for larger image
Aug 5 2011 3:48PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
I mean, the US isn't doing so well with the whole debt thing, but Italy and Spain are in SERIOUS trouble right now, and the central bank of Europe hasn't committed to purchasing their debt. Do you really think the eurozone could survive that? A breakup of the EU would be ugly.
Aug 5 2011 3:51PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,892
oh yeah, we're all fucked. except maybe China.
Aug 5 2011 3:52PM
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[cmyk]
Posts: 261 - Karma: 177

My theory is that China has had this planned all along, i mean, look at it:

*Chinese are good with math
*they know they cant invade cuz we all have nukes and it would be the end of the world if they did
*they know americans are greedy
*they have been buying up most of our debts and lending us more money, sealing our fate

their gona wait till we're all living out of cardboard boxes and come in waving a commy flag and that'll be the end.

Aug 5 2011 3:58PM
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jsaya_SagStraps
Posts: 1840 - Karma: 29
Not true. China has plenty of issues.
Aug 5 2011 3:58PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,892
economically though, i'd saying they're fine.
Aug 5 2011 3:59PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
With the first being the USD, I'm assuming?

Sure, changing the structure of the EU is probably a good idea, but having it happen through the financial collapse of two member countries would not be the best way to get it done.
Aug 5 2011 4:09PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
Personally, I can't think of a better way to get it done.
Aug 5 2011 4:12PM
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ryano
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 1,535
i just got done working a big corporate convention for a bunch of banks and credit unions.

they had 3 world economists come in and speak. so i heard hours of talks about the economy and its trends and where/when its projected to come out of it.

that being said. we arent fucked. we arent doomed.

there's a chance we'll be in a double dip recession. but not likely.

things are on the rise. slowly but surely.

there's a helluva lot of variables and trends from the past and also world economics.

and since the US Dollar has gone down in value, thats increasing tourism to the states quite a bit. which is provided a lot of income for business, etc.

there's a lot more i could say. but i'm to lazy to type it out.
Aug 5 2011 4:13PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
My brother works editing the federal financial bills but even that doesn't make me feel any better about the situation.
Aug 5 2011 4:29PM
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ryano
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 1,535
i didnt say its a double dip yet. there is a possibility tho. but not likely.

there was a slight rise in the economy in 2007 but went down in middle 2008.

and i dont care how much you guys try and defend him, obama has not helped at all with the economy and national debt.

there were graph after graph of our country going to shit in 2009 - late 2010.

and as much as you guys will not admit it, there was an increase during bush's presidency in 2006-07.

the collapse of our dollar isnt a good thing. but it is bringing in a lot more foreigners who will spend there money here because we are cheap now compared to else where.

also, because of that, the US exports are at a high as well, because more countries are buying from us now that we are cheap.

in the end, it is starting to turn around. a double dip recession is not likely, its only happened like once in our nations history.

and i'm not posting in this thread anymore.

inb4 shitstorm. obamab vs bush. 12 year olds not knowing what they're talking about. pointless cyber fighting.
Aug 5 2011 4:31PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
I usually don't get into these debates on NS, but here I am.

I'm not really going to try and throw "facts" down or pretend I know a lot about the current economy in a way that means anything. I will say: Every empire falls, and we are currently in an almost completely global empire... when your empire's wealth is based on money and not land or resources, or anything real - and the empire (first world) goes bankrupt...

...well, it doesn't look good.
Aug 5 2011 4:44PM
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Candy
Posts: 1052 - Karma: 176
"50 Things Every American Should Know About The Collapse of the Economy"
http://www.businessinsider.com/collapse-of-the-economy-2011-5#
Aug 5 2011 4:48PM
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ryano
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 1,535
googled: US Exports

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/trade/tradnewsrelease.htm

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports

yes, you are correct. the deficit was a high in may. as opposed to april.

but, the imports were also at a high a very high that month. which makes the deficit that all time high one month out of the past 3 or 4 years.

look at the graph on the 2nd link. exporting, for the most part, continues to rise and rise.

the percentage of growth of how much we are exporting each year is higher than how much we are importing each year. 2008, exporting rose 12 percent or so. importing only rose like 6 or 7 percent.

ok. now i'm done.
Aug 5 2011 4:54PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
market will rally on monday. all the lemmings will jump back in on the buy low mantra. just watch.
Aug 5 2011 4:56PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
Aug 5 2011 5:16PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16

'Murika must stay strong! rawr rawr rawr.

But cereal you guys should probz cool it on the wars so you don't fuck over the whole world with your debt. Should be lulz when the debt crises hits tho. I'm going to be sitting on a pile of gold. (a very small pile since that shit is bank thanks to you). Both war parties make me lulz with this debt ceiling business when no one even MENTIONS foreign policy even though its probably the biggest underlying contributer to the problem.

Aug 5 2011 6:00PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
other than certain flaws (such as - who will volunteer to work the mines - 'cause I highly doubt we can build a robot to do that), I believe that humans are smart enough to figure some sort of social system that is resource based, and not money based. Call it an unachievable utopian dream of a bunch of hippies, I believe we are capable of something better than what we have now.


All I know is that the monetary system isn't working in our favor, as a global society - and if we don't change, we die.
Aug 5 2011 6:29PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
We will eventually reach a surplus. The American economy has had a fluctuating trend, and so do other capitalist countries. The problem with our economy is that we have high highs and really low lows. Congress just took some fiscal responsibility cutting social security and Medicare and raising taxes. I expect once the baby boomers are dead and gone we will be able to move toward with lowering the deficit. Perhaps even getting zeroed out.
Aug 5 2011 6:57PM
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dmc12380
Posts: 3548 - Karma: 797
this may be just me, but I predict by 2020 the u.s. along with the world will be riding at the crest of a wave as clean energy finally becomes justified and scalable.
Aug 5 2011 7:04PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Try 2050. By 2018 were expected to Eli
Aug 5 2011 7:22PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Damn mobile ns. By 2018 were expected to only eliminate a couple trillion in debt. It's sounds like a big number but it's really a small part of our over $14 trillion deb
Aug 5 2011 7:23PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
it's not a barter system. if you want beef, you eat beef.

if you contribute positively towards society you get to be a part of society. if you choose to sit around on the couch smoking pot and playing video games all day, every day - well... you don't get to participate in society and you die.

call it communism, call it whatever you want... i believe it can work in a global scale - in time... we're not ready yet, and may not be for some time.
Aug 5 2011 7:36PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Two problems with the ryans idea: a 20trillion cut over 10 years is way to intense because no representative would support that given that the typical constituency is old. And why would we cut 20 trillion when we don't have 20 trillion in debt? And 1% seems reasonable to me but 1 in 100 is alot when looking at the big numbers like 14 trillion. So say were at 10 trillion. That means that we cut 100 billion which would probably be taken from underfunded discretionaries. I like the ideas of cutting costs and raising taxes to get rid of the debt instantaneously, but the people who get to vote on legislation don't. Also please don't post more than once consecutively.
Aug 5 2011 7:52PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
have you ever considered the fact that some people actually enjoy being a farmer? As it is now, farmers aren't getting rich. If you get rid of money, you would eliminate a lot of stress from "jobs" such as farming. Combine that with the elimination of ownership, farmers would have way more freedom to grow what they want without dealing with Monsanto, resulting in a wider selection of strains of crops with healthier attributes.

getting rid of money does not mean getting rid of the motivation to produce, it just shifts the wants/needs of the world.

Side note: Apparently - Humboldt Country voted Monsanto out entirely... huge news right there.
Aug 5 2011 7:56PM
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HamFaceGirl
Posts: 5242 - Karma: 2,684
1.the government prints a shitload of money up
2. Give it to all the homeless and the rest to everyone else
3. Spend all the money and have a great time for a month or so
4. Nuke ourselfs
5 ???
6. profit
Aug 5 2011 8:03PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
so, i just looked into this - I gave you misinformation. The real thing going on is that farmers in Humboldt and Mendocino County's are suing Monsanto to get the right to grow crops that may have traces of Monsanto gm seeds while being protected against Monsanto themselves.

but this is getting off topic.
Aug 5 2011 8:04PM
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Scott0_robot0
Posts: 3291 - Karma: 212
i think you forget that china also gets all of their money from us and others, buying up all there shit they make their.
Aug 5 2011 8:14PM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
Lol. Yeah, let's get rid of our medium of exchange. That would be so efficient. "Sir, will you take 1200 carrots as payment for this three piece suit?"

To woozy: Yeah, obviously a haircut is preferable to default, but it may not make the most sense to let government debt issues get out of some payments. People may be scared to invest in those countries for fear of repayment, and the borrowing costs for those countries could shoot up.

S&P downgrade last night kind of comes as a slap in the face. The USA needs to really make an effort at cutting future spending, especially as borrowing will likely be slightly more expensive now. I agree with whoever said we should look at foreign policy as a source for potential cuts.

Could be a shitstorm on Monday, or maybe the markets have already priced in the downgrade. We'll see.
Aug 6 2011 9:00AM
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yung_stone
Posts: 203 - Karma: -62

other things we should be worrying about

Aug 6 2011 10:46AM
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rhcp
Posts: 2598 - Karma: 18
You seriously need to apply your critical thinking skills before posting ignorant shit like that.

I stopped listening after about one minute. Two things:

1) As easy as it is to paint all financial institutions as greedy, evil, and a waste of resources, financial institutions and a well-functioning market are essential for any economy. There is almost no way the world standard of living would be this high today if we didn't have those financial institutions. Not to mention, I guarantee you everything you use has in some way, shape, or form arrived at your hands through the help of a large financial institution.

2) The sick people in the world are definitely helped more by the "greedy corporations" than they are hurt by them. Think about it...do you really think modern medicine would have had such a great leap forward in the past century if the incentives to invest in R&D and, at a more individual level, attend school and work for the corporations were not present? Those "greedy corporations" have saved way more lives than any armchair commentator that wished the world does not revolve around money, and that virtually all people are not driven almost entirely by incentives.
Aug 6 2011 12:55PM
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yung_stone
Posts: 203 - Karma: -62
I wasn't really relating the video to our current economic status and I don't really care what you have to say so...
Aug 6 2011 4:50PM
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