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Help for my dad

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-GL-
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 37
Hey guys, Me and my dad have been skiing together for a while and this year since a family friend of ours are traveling the world and living for a month in utah we are going on a trip to ski there for sure. Well my dad has only skiing East Coast conditions ever since he started skiing. He is a good skier and can do like double black groomed trails on almost all east coast mountains but has never skiing in deeper snow or any type of powder at all. Once it did snow a couple of inches at Killington and he says his problem is he cant turn left at all im not sure why and it might just be because hes just not used to skiing in that kind of snow.
So the reason im making this thread is to maybe give him some pointers on skiing powder and im sure some of your tips will be able to help me and improve my skiing technique also.

Thanks guys, much appreciated
Aug 2 2011 10:52AM
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DayMan
Posts: 4704 - Karma: 8,748
lololol hes like zoolander
Aug 2 2011 10:54AM
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xoxxooxo
Posts: 462 - Karma: 31
Search.......................Bar

Aug 2 2011 10:55AM
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idskithat
Posts: 1314 - Karma: 154
cool story hansel
Aug 2 2011 11:03AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
mybe he should take some lessons and actually learn to ski first...


Seriously though, he doesnt know how to ski properly.
Aug 2 2011 11:47AM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Mabeye he doesn't have enough leg strengh to turn his skis when they are under the snow?
Aug 2 2011 11:52AM
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Ian.D
Posts: 1254 - Karma: 1,093
Well skiing pow with east coast skis meant for ice and granular could be a problem. I'd say lean back a little
Aug 2 2011 11:54AM
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-GL-
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 37
ok! thanks everyone, he deffinitly could use a lesson or two, and maybe he could demo better skis when he's down there thanks again for all the input
Aug 2 2011 12:06PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
never ever give advice on how to ski again.
Aug 2 2011 12:42PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
Get some fatter skis with rocker. That will help him a bit
Aug 2 2011 1:01PM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9297 - Karma: 7,732
my advice on pow skiing is that it depends very much on the moisture level in the snow.

Utah snow almost always has a super low moisture content because of the lake effect snow. In this type of snow, the best advice is to BURY YOUR TIPS. There's nothing worse than skiing pow and feeling the need to lean back the whole run. True powder skiing is when you can bury your tips beneath the snow and ski how you would normally ski (except it feels amazing!). Fat skis will help in powder because they will want to surface after each turn, but honestly sometimes i feel that fat skis keep me from burying my tips (which is what it's all about).

For heavier snow conditions with higher moisture content i would recommend fatter skis because they won't want to bury themselves under the heavy snow.

I see way too many people leaning back in powder when they should just bury the tips and ski the way they know how to ski. Hope that helped
Aug 2 2011 1:39PM
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xoxxooxo
Posts: 462 - Karma: 31
made me lol

Aug 2 2011 3:14PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Take an advanced private lesson on a pow day is what u need. Skiing pow is not at all like skiing groomed, in deep snow u r not edging like on groomed, instead it should be much more rhythmic, ur weight also has to be distrubuted much more evenly between ur two feet. in deep snow u need to carry much more speed, it seems counter intuitive, but that is the only way to keep ur skis manuverable. The last thing I would tell u is that in most pow conditions, u wanna keep ur weight centered and drive into your boots, but in really deep snow it is easier if u center ur weight directly over your heels instead of skiing off of the ball of your foot
Aug 2 2011 3:29PM
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Bock
Posts: 748 - Karma: 1,652
Well that certainly helped me. Thanks!
Aug 2 2011 3:36PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
And I ski in Washington.
Aug 2 2011 9:26PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Get him to take some mogul lessons... Learning the proper technique for that = able to ski anything and everything. Its easy to tell which pros were in a mogul program because it makes a huge difference to the way they ski.
Aug 2 2011 9:31PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
No no no no no no...

If anything, a race program. You realize mogul skiing is not how people carve around the mountain, correct? It isn't good form for anything but moguls.
Aug 2 2011 9:41PM
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tcgoldman
Posts: 704 - Karma: 723
I'm sure he will figure it out
Aug 2 2011 9:47PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Lolwut? You have no idea how many racers I see who leave a course and dont know how to turn. High level racers have a ski for each turn shape.... You think thats learning good technique? I wouldn't say so. Basic race training is ok, but thats just focusing on the same basics you cover in a mogul program. If you want to learn how to actually ski... Shred moguls all day. You sure as hell can't bust GS turns down a narrow chute, but I bet you mogul skiers would make it through juuuuuust fine.
Aug 2 2011 9:53PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
Alright, well all I'm saying is mogul skiing is high speed side-slipping... racing will teach you how to effectively use an edge.
Aug 2 2011 10:21PM
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schism
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 389
hes probably trying to start the turn with his upper body, and since hes in the pow his lower body won't follow.

get him a lesson with just focusing on skiing with your lower body & pivoting.
Aug 2 2011 10:23PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.. I seriously cant emphasize enough that this is what SO many people do wrong (including me when I first moved out to Utah). I thought, hey the more I lean back the more float and maneuverability I will get, but that isnt the case at all. Definitely ski normal, "burrying your tips" as he says.
Aug 2 2011 10:32PM
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BIGben*
Posts: 1942 - Karma: 8
. But also did he ha e pow skis in killington?
Aug 2 2011 10:46PM
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-GL-
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 37
no he did not, the only skis he owns are like 2004 nordica carving skis honestly have no clue what they are called but he is due in for a new pair sometime soon
Aug 2 2011 10:48PM
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Skithedeep
Posts: 645 - Karma: 39
dont bother having him ski on his carving skis. There are tons and tons of places to rent pow skis in SLC, and it is definately worth the $40 a day. when my family came to visit me in Utah I made sure they rented pow skis from Alta's ski shop, and they are all very good skiers from washington, but had never skied in the 20+ inches the snow gods dealt us that day, and it made their day soooo much better than tryin to make it on carving or mid-fats. by the end of the day my dad and sister were shredding Alta pow like all the locals, and had the best day of their lives.

as far as pointers, the don't lean back advice is the best. I have learned that skiing pow aggressively and with forward pressure like any other turn will make your day much better. Too many people are either leaning back or too tentative or relaxed in pow and cant initiate a good turn.

all in all, once you get the feeling for deep pow, nothing on a mountain will ever beat it again.
Aug 2 2011 11:02PM
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Dr.Rick_Marshall
Posts: 407 - Karma: 44
I cant understand if this is a joke or is this serious?
Aug 3 2011 2:51AM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
clearly you dont...you would eat shit so fucking fast if you decided to bury your tips in PNW cement it wouldnt even be funny, although i do agree with the skiing normally in lighter pow
Aug 3 2011 3:03AM
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BASEDRILEY
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 898
Thats what he was saying dumb fuck.
Aug 3 2011 3:14AM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
100% serious.

How many pros come up through mogul programs now?
JP, JF. TJ, Henitiuk, Tanner, Bibby to name a few.. The only reason racing programs are known to provide such good skiing skills is because you used to register your kids for a race program, NOT moguls. This is changing now, and all the good skiers are coming from mogul and freestyle teams. Mogul technique is about a million times better for freeskiing than racing. The skills are so much more applicable. One is about skiing a perfectly groomed course, the other teaches you how to choose a line and ski it, how to land well enough on all your tricks to ride into a mogul pitch immediately after, and amazing jumping technique. If you think racing will teach you more about skiing outside of a course then a mogul program... You are wrong.
Aug 3 2011 3:21AM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
sure seemed to me like he was agreeing with the previous post in burying one's tips even though he lives in washington and it would seem counter productive to perform such an act

why am I a dumb fuck? because I interpreted one post on an online forum differently than you did? for that I sincerely apologize and I am sure the level of my intelligence is far inferior to yours and that of your buddy whose post I'm sure it was.

you have a good day sir, good to see so much love comin out of the 206
Aug 3 2011 3:25AM
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BASEDRILEY
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 898
not the reaction i expected. 10/10 for you
Aug 3 2011 3:46AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Spoken like a mogul skier. Lots of pro's have racing backgrounds too. Good skiers right now are coming from newschool teams.
Aug 3 2011 4:56AM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5852 - Karma: 4,531
Are you kidding me? I mean really saying top level racers can't ski off a race course? Do you not understand that carving is the basic for all types of skiing except moguls in which you pretty much do the opposite of carve. As in shorten your legs in the arc of the turn and lengthen your legs in the transition vs lengthen your legs in the arc and shorten them in a transition in a pure carve. (Complete simplification I know) but that moguls is the direct opposite you need to do in powder if you want to ski powder properly.

No you can't bust GS turns down a narrow chute but you can make short turns (based out of a slalom turn which all 'racers' learn) or you can slide the turns which anyone that has spent a decent amount of time on snow can do. Yes, moguls can teach you how to jump and land but so can downhill racing. For powder a race lesson would be much more beneficial.
Aug 3 2011 7:05AM
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tribefan226
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 209
if u get powder, have him rent some powder skis. makes a huge difference
Aug 3 2011 10:23AM
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astralboy15
Posts: 100 - Karma: -53
Daron Rahlves.


/ stupid debate.
Aug 3 2011 11:01AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
sage and seth would beg to differ.

Oh and daron rhalves sure didnt look like he knew how to ski in the last couple movies he was in. Matter of fact, pretty sure all the true big mtn sliers nowadays came up through a racing(not moguls) program.
Aug 3 2011 11:05AM
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ridearmada14
Posts: 441 - Karma: 18
"For powder a race lesson woudl be much much more beneficial"- i respectfully disagree completely.


Mogul skiing is the foundation of all skiing and I can actually tell a mogul skier in powder when I see one. It's because they rip it so fucking hard. Mogul skiers create the best skiers in the game i don't even think it's possible to argue that
Aug 3 2011 11:12AM
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Dr.Rick_Marshall
Posts: 407 - Karma: 44
No, Racing does everything you mentioned and more. The foundation of a ski turn is using your edges, mogul skiers do not use their edges. In a race course you have to pick your line and ski it right. You have obviously never been on a race course because i have never seen a perfectly groomed course, you are constantly dealing with varying terrain and conditions. Most of the CAF guys started racing then moved to moguls. Pretty much every notable big mountain skier has a racing background. Racing teaches you a turn you can use anywhere on the mountain, moguls does not. Only advantage a mogul skier has is in jumps. More and more kids are skipping racing and going straight to park because of junior freestyle programs. Which to me is sad because they are missing out on the fundamentals of a good turn and what actual skiing is.
Aug 3 2011 8:17PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Most of the guys like shane who were pro mogul skiers, started as a little kid in race programs, the fact that this is even an argument is rediculous, sooooo many great skiers come from both, it can't just be a one or the other debate
Aug 3 2011 8:30PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7480 - Karma: 11,479
Yes, every single race course is perfectly groomed. All the time. 120+ racers attempting to ski the same line means no ruts appear. Ive never seen it happen.

Seriously that is one of the dumbest things I have heard. Racing and Moguls both give you the ability to freeski the mountain IF you learn the basics first. At the extreme level, IMO racing is more helpful. A race course at the highest level has bumps and terrain changes that only the racers feel. At that speed, a little rut hit at the wrong angle means crash and burn. You can master that, you can master almost anything. Besides, who skis with their entire legs together anyway? :)

Regardless of which gives you a better set of skills, its all about basics.
Aug 3 2011 8:36PM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5852 - Karma: 4,531
Of course at the top of your game there are exceptions. All professional skiers should be comfortable enough to rip it all around the mountain by the skills they have picked up and the sheer magnitude of the amount of time they have spent on snow. Those guys I'm sure have done a lot o technical work outside of moguls and within big mountain skiing, as I know the top mogul skiers in Australia also work on 'pure carving' or a racing carve as well as working on their moguls technique. People that are at the top of their game obviously have to all around skills to ski as all parts of skiing are integrated and to be the best you have to be able to do it all. But for a basic racer vs a basic moguls skier the racer will be better in powder because he can utilise the long leg in the arc of the turn, short transition and pure carve rather than the short leg, long transition and slide in moguls.
Aug 3 2011 8:38PM
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OMGHEDIDNT
Posts: 706 - Karma: 12
this
Aug 3 2011 8:46PM
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whistler14
Posts: 247 - Karma: 14
Not trying to be a douche but it sounds like you haven't skied powder properly. Racers are good at using their edges to carve, this has nothing to do with powder skiing.... I grew up with some awesome racer ski buddies and kids that would only rip moguls and i have to say from my experience mogul skiers rage powder much harder. some racers honestly suck at skiing pow
Aug 3 2011 9:09PM
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OMGHEDIDNT
Posts: 706 - Karma: 12
yeah you can see it on Tanner in Retallack too
Aug 3 2011 10:02PM
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yuck
Posts: 8384 - Karma: 2,090
when i read this i thought it said he could do double back

and my first thought was that your dad is fucking cool as hell


but he cant turn left in a few inches of snow? that doesnt even make sense.
Aug 3 2011 10:21PM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
ya I agree with this post.
Aug 3 2011 11:38PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Youre from VT, so I'll go easy on ya.

First of all, Ive never seen a rut in pow, and I somewhat doubt you have either. Moguls skiers aren't trained to stiff-leg it over obstacles in their way, they absorb them, which is inherently a way more useful skill when you're riding unpredictable terrain.

Second of all, every good pow skier rides with their legs together. Good luck shredding deep pow when you're cruising around in gorilla stance... I have a feeling you might have difficulty turning.

Im not hating on racing, as Ive been through both a moguls and a race program, but one is honestly just more useful for skiing the whole mountain.
Aug 4 2011 12:36AM
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Low.End
Posts: 556 - Karma: 21
i wish i skied powder like this....If i tried burying my tips skiing pow here in the PNW i'd nose dive 100% of the time
Aug 4 2011 12:53AM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9297 - Karma: 7,732
for sure man, i've been there. Best advice for that type of snow is fat skis and try and ski as normal as possible. Unless you can find a steep enough slope that you can bury the tips without it stopping you.
Aug 4 2011 11:09AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7480 - Karma: 11,479
Im not saying there are ruts in pow, what I am saying is racing causes you to adapt. Races can be held in any weather. Trust me, Ive never been in a race thats been cancelled due to weather conditions. A couple years back we had a race after 3 feet of snow. It was gnarly.

Racers dont stiff leg it either. You stiff leg it, you get air. No contact on snow=slow. Watch a racer in slow motion on a rutty course. They absorb everything. Hence the stiffboot boards. Better feel for the snow.

And to pow skiers skiing with their legs together, they are no where NEAR as close as mogul skiers. Theyre closer to racers. The gorilla stance, as you call it, has been abandoned for quite some time now. It is impossible to shift ones weight quickly with such a wide stance. You watch any SL races from this year and you will see how close their feet are coming together at the apex of the turn. Here are some images to prove my point..
Who has the closest stance to Arne?


Click for larger image

Click for larger image
Click for larger image

I know that photo of Ted is rather old, but the stance is what I am getting at.
Aug 4 2011 2:16PM
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HalfandHalf
Posts: 1216 - Karma: 207
I take it you dont live on the west either huh?
Aug 4 2011 4:21PM
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