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Video Discussions: Shot Composition

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Official_Recap
Posts: 1075 - Karma: 525
OK, so I thought I'd create a thread to open everyone up to a bit more discussion on the forum (regarding video in this case). It was brought up in another thread by a few members that there should be more open dialogue about perspectives / techniques / etc. where everyone can express their ideas on certain points and learn from each other, rather than simply a "critique my edit" thread.

So, something that has been interesting me for a while is the idea of shot composition. I personally have gone through different phases of shooting; between always incorporating movement in my shots, and shooting with no movement whatsoever (emphasizing the layout of the frame to engage the viewer). The idea of this thread is simply to see what everybody's view on the subject of shot composition is: Do you think movement is what engages a viewer? or do you believe framing the shot is what brings a scene to life? I understand these are very vague questions, but I just want this to be a catalyst to a (hopefully) insightful discussion.

Two examples:


From Alex Horner: No movement (Although the audio mixing does give it a sort of pace)






From Landis Tanaka: A lot of movement, particularly in the nature shots.









Please be respectful of one another. Bear in mind everyone has and is entitled to their own opinions. We are here to use those opinions to potentially open each other's minds and maybe step outside our comfort zones to go experiment with shooting in new ways.
Aug 1 2011 10:26PM
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[evan]
Posts: 5628 - Karma: 117
threads for when im not falling asleep in my chair

looks like a good read man k+
Aug 1 2011 10:31PM
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NJurkiewicz
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 697
threads for when I can read through it all later
Aug 1 2011 10:38PM
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Dwarftosser1
Posts: 2602 - Karma: 951
I feel way more engaged with movement. Especially when it comes to things such as nature. It goes back to if I was actually in the shot. let's say the shot is of a beautiful forest, I wouldn't just stand there looking into the forest without swiveling my head around and looking all around me. I also feel like Moving shots convey a different emotion then a still shot which to me gives off a kind of a depressing feel, while movement coveys joyfulness, and an energetic feeling.


That probably made no sense haha
Aug 1 2011 10:45PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I feel like I could write a book on composition. I will write more later, but all I will say for now is that at the root of good composition is geometry. Being fluent in concepts like gesture, form, scale, and pattern will separate your work from the rest.

I feel like I've said this a hundred times but if you want to produce amazing footage, don't study videography. Study drawing and painting.
Aug 1 2011 10:52PM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
To me, a still and symmetrical shot is so beautiful. Horner used this many times in his video. Having dolly and slider movements are also nice when done well, like Landis does, but like said above, they convey different messages and evoke different feelings. I find its also much easier to do a still shot well then a moving shot. Panning a shitty tripod doesnt really cut it for me.
Aug 1 2011 11:10PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
Here's a question - is camera movement (panning, dolly, whatever) considered part of the "composition" of the shot? Or, is the composition referring to what's going on in a single frame, and as camera movement occurs it changes the composition?
Aug 1 2011 11:28PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
The latter. Composition is the two-dimensional arrangement of what is a three-dimensional illusion.
Aug 1 2011 11:30PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
I like static shots alot, especially when they point out symmetry or a flow of lines to be specific, Horner's video is a great example of that. I just cant stand when a static shot plays out for too long. General rule of thumb is that a clip shouldn't be longer than 7 seconds, in my opinion this should just be a general guideline when shooting static shots. If a static shot is gonna play out longer than 7 seconds, it might as well just be a photo in my opinion.

To answer the question from my perspective in the OP; I feel that static shots can be just as engaging as shots with smooth motion, they just need to be framed and composed perfectly. But shots with both motion and no motion are important imo. I feel like any movie or short film cannot just have one.
Aug 2 2011 1:32AM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
I knew you would say the latter. I actually disagree though.


I can see why you say that that is the definition of composition, but in my opinion, when using a camera that records motion, the definition of composition changes because motion (either in the frame or the camera itself) is inherent to motion pictures (obviously). So to me, any camera movement is part of composition, and the way the image changes throughout the shot is still a part of the composition. just my opinion though.
Aug 2 2011 10:16AM
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TaranItUp
Posts: 1313 - Karma: 802
This once I get back from soccer
Aug 2 2011 10:45AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
haha well I approach video like painting, so it only makes sense.
Aug 2 2011 4:03PM
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TaranItUp
Posts: 1313 - Karma: 802
I'm going to bump this, there is some great potential with this thread.
Aug 3 2011 11:15PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,093
For my short opinion (taking a break from working/studying) I think composition is very tough and can really make or break a clip. I feel like a lot of people hit good composition by accident i know i have.

One of the big things ive been working on with my filming (action stuff) is keeping the subject in the same spot of the frame as i pan/tilt. In skiing, this can be very tough because of how quick it can be, but if you can nail a close up shot with the skier taking up 50-75% of the frame, it can look amazing. The illusion of you object "not moving" in the frame but the background moving very fast is very appealing to me. I worked on this the last weekend with some track racing, god damn it was hard but i nailed it once and i was very happy with myself.

Another big thing to think about (landis mentioned this) was geometry within the frame. Having random little edges and lines and objects on the edge of the frame really can throw off the geometrical aspects of your image and you need to make sure you keep distractions from your real subject out of your frame.
Aug 3 2011 11:30PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
yeah completely, that's how i knew you would say the latter.

i try to do a little of both. i'd say about 6 months ago i started really trying to approach video like a painting (although i never thought of it that way until i heard you say it). its definitely a fun way to shoot.
Aug 3 2011 11:37PM
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kootenayklaus
Posts: 3914 - Karma: 2,179
I prefer the static a lot actually, but I am a sucker for a good dolly shot or a crane shot. I view videography as candy, there are so many flavors, it just all comes down to what you like best.
Aug 4 2011 1:02AM
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Bentley@DOSMedia
Posts: 1410 - Karma: 1,827
A crane or dolly shot look the best with juxtaposition. Copious amounts of dolly and/or crane shot ruin the illusion of the shot and effect it has.
I wont name any companies or people in particular but there are some that use dolly shots all the time and after a while you dont even realize they are dolly shots.

The Visual Story by Bruce Block is GREAT book about composition. I highly recommend it and you can pick it up for about $10 on Amazon. Its summer and I know a lot of you have time on your hands. Its not to long and a great read that you wont be able to put down.
Aug 4 2011 1:19AM
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Bentley@DOSMedia
Posts: 1410 - Karma: 1,827
Oh and I would chime in more on the subject, but I just havent found my exact style yet so I feel like if I say something, I will feel different about it a week later.


Aug 4 2011 1:21AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I highly suggest this book. Excellent tips on compositions. Techies beware; there's hardly any mention of camera settings or technical tips. It's purely theoretical, which is how it should be.

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Nature-Outdoor-Photography-Revised/dp/0817439617/ref=dp_ob_image_bk
Aug 22 2011 11:09PM
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