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2012/2013 Gear

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corski
Posts: 505 - Karma: 319

I just saw this in chairlift diaries maybe 2012/2013 nordica skis...TJ pro model?

Yes i do know it isnt 2012 yet but i just saw this and thought they looked sickClick for larger imageClick for larger image

Jul 13 2011 2:32PM
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mattb912
Posts: 3078 - Karma: 194
Everyone has their own opinion on skis. Though he did go a little overboard (like he usually does), he clearly was not a fan of the JJ. Just because it is a great ski for you, does not mean it was a great ski for him.
Jan 11 2012 7:08PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
I like to ski, fast. The JJ likes to suck dick wad out of one of those skinng stirring staws they have at Starbucks. We didnt get along. I have skied the JJ, I took it out, and half way through the run decided it was a total piece of shit, was unstable at any speed, could not hold a line for shit, and provided no support on landing anything worth jumping off of. Maybe if you skied nothing other than Utah powder at speeds below 10 mph with lots of unnecessary and gay turns, it would be half decent, but I stand by my statement that it is more adapt at helping a shitty back seat skiing park rat look cool outside the lodge than being good at going down the fall line.

Your mileage may vary.
Jan 11 2012 7:10PM
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DUKES
Posts: 5150 - Karma: 691
before anyone posts some shit remember this is an OPINION not a fact................or is it?

Jan 11 2012 7:15PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
lol noooo

you are obviously not 6'2"+ or you would know what cobra is getting at, the shape and sidecut just make them ski WAY to short. Try arching real SG turns on them through a chopped up steep pow field, its fucking terrifying and incredibly unstable
Jan 11 2012 7:17PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
well i took it out this weekend and found it quite stable at speed on an icy run at beaver creek.

this will probably be my new everyday ski for the way it held an edge on a groomer, probably going to replace my solly tornados as my groomer ski, i used to race and can honestly say that i was impressed by the way this held an edge on the shitty ass birds of prey run at the beav. sadly it was their best run open at the time.

i have yet to ski them in the super deep pow, but in the 5 inches we got on sunday they were quite fun and floated well.

for you to take a half of run and judge a ski to call it complete shit is absurd to me.
Jan 11 2012 7:22PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1435 - Karma: 1,895
reverse rocker?! newest shit on the planet!
Jan 11 2012 7:28PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
correct i am not tall so that could be my reasoning, but anyone who is 6'2" shouldnt even consider a 185 ski.

back on topic, oakley has some nice stuff for next year, especially some new sunglasses.

here are next years t-hall signature series?

Click for larger image
Jan 11 2012 7:37PM
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Pool.
Posts: 2820 - Karma: 662
here are last years thall signature series?

they only get new sig series every 2 years ive noticed
Jan 11 2012 7:40PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
I lost.
Jan 11 2012 7:46PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
So for someone that hates on Moments, I bet you're one of a handful of people that know what's going on with this ski, ya??

It goes far beyond what magne-traction did for Lib Tech and is a completely different beast altogether.
Jan 11 2012 7:47PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
that used to be the pattern, but these are not the same as this years nor last years notice the strap.


and these are much cleaner then the model from two years ago.
Jan 11 2012 7:58PM
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ace_
Posts: 3189 - Karma: 39
Spot on. that ski blows
Jan 11 2012 8:01PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
They introduce sharp angles on an impact and glide surface. From a hydrodynamics standpoint, it causes hooking, interferes with buttering, causes strange things to happen when skiing through "unconventional" surface conditions, and puts unnecessary weight at the end of the skis. From an impact standpoint, it causes premature chipping and delamination.

The guys who really have it right, are Black Diamond, ON3P, Nordica(some of their skis), Salomon(some of theirs) and Movement. They are combining early taper, with traditional camber, and low rocker with no real tip profile. This is where ski design is going.
Jan 11 2012 8:31PM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,223
Nordica Patrons are where its at
Jan 11 2012 8:37PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Yeah that is what I am on this year. Although they are pretty sweet, you can tell Nordica is a race ski brand to the core. They should have added early taper, and stiffened the tail a bit. Otherwise, pretty sweet sticks.
Jan 11 2012 8:41PM
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TheScratch
Posts: 796 - Karma: 11
2012?2013 Outerwear http://www.shredtalks.com/2011/12/27/2012_2013_ski_snowboard_outerwear_preview/
Jan 11 2012 8:46PM
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DW.
Posts: 2683 - Karma: 74
I might be wrong here, let me know. But the angle on their skis is super minimal, if you were to compare it with other skis, there might be like 1 mm difference in material, especially on the park skis, they're barely squared. Also, I haven't noticed any difference at all in terms of strange things when I be slayin tha pow, and besides that, the tips never make contact with the snow. Lastly, I'm pretty sure there is actually material removed, not added.

I definitely see where you're coming from with the delam though, although once again, yet to happen to me.
Jan 11 2012 8:50PM
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DBL
Posts: 1405 - Karma: 2,218
New Oakleys!!!

Jan 11 2012 9:09PM
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NCgaron
Posts: 142 - Karma: 15
those are looking really dope!
Jan 11 2012 9:13PM
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DW.
Posts: 2683 - Karma: 74
those are looking like crowbars w/o riggers.
Jan 11 2012 9:13PM
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DW.
Posts: 2683 - Karma: 74
albeit really dope
Jan 11 2012 9:14PM
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YooperSteeze
Posts: 1248 - Karma: 45
http://www.behance.net/gallery/Line-Ski-Design-Chronic-2012-2013/1847321 Could be a huge repost, but it appears to be the drawing that is the basis for the new chronic.
Jan 11 2012 10:20PM
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Pool.
Posts: 2820 - Karma: 662
the topsheet is oragne with that grafic on top
Jan 11 2012 10:30PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Although this is a large rabbit trail from what I was trying to say, Yes, the square tips move more surface area towards the tip, which increases the swing weight(per unit length) and also provides more hookage. That is the whole Idea behind a reverse/reverse ski. Flotation underfoot, smearing, hookless turns with a thin tip and tail.

IMHO the square tip/tail do much more for brand recognition than for performance. Even if it would improve the ski, I don't think they should lose the squareness.

P.S. I design/build skis/boards.

P.S.S. The Moment Ghost Chants are amazing...
Jan 12 2012 12:06AM
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pbandj
Posts: 5610 - Karma: 28
finally something to compete with eg2's maybe?
Jan 12 2012 12:16AM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
FWIW - I've been on at least 11 different pairs of Moments over the last 5 years and haven't had one delamination issue. On average, I get 70-80 days a year. Also, I've only had at most 4 or 5 core shots total and I ski gnarly shit most of the time without worrying what lies underneath the snow. Yes, you might experience hooking more than other companies, but we continually stress consumers to detune the tips and tails because of how sharp the edges are received from our supplier. Over the past couple of years, we've incorporated a detuning process before skis ship out, but it's still recommended that you do your own inspection and adjust accordingly.


Again, I'll ask... have you been or seen the new ski? If not, then reserve your thoughts til OR/SIA or until you actually step into a pair. While the concept isn't new, it certainly is to the ski industry and done differently than before. Also, it's a fully functionally design and not some gimmick.
Jan 12 2012 12:18AM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Yes, I have seen it, no, I have not skied it. Sorry I voiced a rather harsh opinion. I have owned a couple pairs of Moment skis, and wear Moment outerwear, its great stuff for sure.

I am all for new innovation and tech from the ski industry, and I wish there was more. I am impressed with the "new thing" and hope it performs like the marketing claims.

P.S. I had a delam issue with two of the six moment skis (3 pairs) I have owned. I fixed it, and they didn't have further issue, but I did feel like the corners had something to do with it (I was skiing through a lot of brush and stuff). I did, however, like the square tips when carving in crud, they seem to give a little extra edge in choppy chunder. If Moment were to combine that with a low profile rocker design/no tip profile, I would be happy to purchase more in the future. (hint hint)
Jan 12 2012 12:32AM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Am I the only one in this damn thread wondering what moments new "thing" is?
Jan 12 2012 12:42AM
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DW.
Posts: 2683 - Karma: 74
yes, you are.
Jan 12 2012 12:45AM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
You raise a good point here as I've heard the more subtle rocker is, the better it performs. Basically, when you have abrupt rocker, it actually works against you than for you.

As for the square tips, one of my favorite non-rockered skis was the 190 Ruby. It was a total crud busting machine. But as of now, my ultimate tip design (or the one I prefer most), is on the Bibby Special. It's quite the exaggerated shark nose design that slices through crud a lot easier and doesn't hook as much in deeper snow. This is something you see on many of ON3P skis (also no surprise that Moment has helped them over the years). As for other performance with a dignified square tip, I can't say I've notice much difference although it's been a long while since I was on anything but them. I will say it's slight odd that the Vice features a more rounded tip but the Team/Jib skis are fully squared.
Jan 12 2012 12:57AM
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mode2n
Posts: 2856 - Karma: 255
In the new Tanner Hall "Point Of View" video there seems some sort of new goggle frame (not colorway) by Oakley... Since I've heard rumors that they're dropping the crowbar I'm predicting possible crowbar 2's?
Jan 12 2012 1:01AM
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mode2n
Posts: 2856 - Karma: 255
ahh damn it nevermind! I got beat to it
Jan 12 2012 1:04AM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Nice! I had the Ruby back in the day, they were sweet. I got to try the Bibby Special last week, and they are definitely amazing.

Also, with the rocker, to specify, I was referring to the actual tip rise profile. Actually doing away with a tip, and just rounding off a rockered nose. So it planes up, then stops. I see more and more skis/brands with this. Its awesome.
Jan 12 2012 1:12AM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
Next years s7s?
Click for larger image

Congrats Kye!
Jan 12 2012 1:33AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
those are the aforementioned squad 7's.
Jan 12 2012 2:01AM
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Deviate
Posts: 273 - Karma: 240
Unsure if this has been posted or not (apologies if so), but can see some of the function of the tracker/guardian. Looks good. :)
Jan 12 2012 3:14AM
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TaySwift
Posts: 3436 - Karma: 1,622
Once again atomic uses another companies binding structure, well at least the nose piece is
Jan 12 2012 5:02AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
Just so everyone has their facts straight, this is not a Salomon binding that Atomic rebranded. It was a 50/50 collab between Salomon and Atomic from the start- totally shared budget and R&D.
Jan 12 2012 5:16AM
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SIX
Posts: 4595 - Karma: 506
When will people finally realise this? Seems like every thread that I see about the guardian people are saying atomic copied Salomon...
Jan 12 2012 6:55AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
I can see why some people might think that since we use their STH bindings and they use our Race X bindings. But starting with Tracker/Guardian, bindings will be developed together between the brands.
Jan 12 2012 8:20AM
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herman.
Posts: 146 - Karma: 81
check the strap, it's new!
Jan 12 2012 9:11AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
It' s great to see all these big companies working together to improve product, but I can help the feeling that they are like one huge conglomerate intent on keep upstarts at bay.... I get it, it costs a shitload of money to generate a good binding, but I feel kinda like a cash cow getting milked by rebranded product. Oh that's no a look binding that' s a rossi, salomon, atomic, tyrolia collab.

Screw it....I can' t wait for the day when I can get all my hardwear (not just boards) from local companies.
I mean On3p, Moment, Icelandic, Liberty can make product that are as good or better than those big boys at competitive prices....Why can"t we get some smaller binding and boot companies, generate jobs and product right here?

It guess bindings and boots just aren' t so simple nowadays (I miss those beartrap three pin I used to tele on, oh yeah and those leather boots I used).
Jan 12 2012 9:15AM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
as for bindings, here is the biggest issue....

insurance. Yes, they are hard to engineer, but the reason no smaller guys will even touch them is the insurance associated with them.

If people here knew how much the liability insurance just a small company like ON3P costs every year with the very, very small number of skis we make (relative to the major industry players), people would be surprised. Now increase the likelihood of a lawsuit 100 times and increase your exposure (because to actually produce bindings, you are actually going to have to be producing a reasonable amount of volume, where with skis you can get by on a lot less) and you have insurance costs that go through the roof. I could hire a whole new employee for what we pay in insurance each year, so I cannot even imagine what salomon/rossi/etc are paying to be protected when selling the huge number of bindings they do each year.

On the production side of things, boots and bindings have huge set up costs. Just the cost of building the molds to produce boots or binding is enormous.
Jan 12 2012 9:30AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
Are these products manufactured in Europe and Asia because of those countries liability policies, specifically the liability cap on claims? If so, then maybe we need to reconsider the system we used to keep manufacturers responsible for their product. Maybe I am suggesting that their is something wrong with the system if we cannot produce items in a sustainable manner in our own country. There are millions of skiers in North America but we cannot supply them with bindings made here because of the way we have organized our manufacturing laws....? That is FUBAR. I guess the jobless rate shouldn' t really come as a surprise to anyone....
Jan 12 2012 9:50AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,896
Like iggy said, mold investment is huge. Ski molds aren't cheap, but they are cheap when compared to injection molding. For example, the Atomic Hawx mold series alone (no materials or R&D costs) is about 600,000€ for the size run. Just the mold costs.

It is such a huge investment to make boots, which is why there aren't really any "small" boot brands.
Jan 12 2012 10:19AM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 36,055
Look and rossi are owned but the same company so of course they will share binding. Doesnt make sense for sister companies to make binding competing with eachother.
Jan 12 2012 10:46AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
see daleboot.
Jan 12 2012 10:49AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
If someone buys a xxx brand binding in the U.S. and it fails causing them injury, they can file a lawsuit against xxx in U.S. courts, or xxx north american division.
Jan 12 2012 10:57AM
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Slowbro
Posts: 3863 - Karma: 21,303
Curtis the only company actually using a licensed guardian binding is Scott
Jan 12 2012 11:17AM
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herman.
Posts: 146 - Karma: 81
Click for larger image
more armada!
Jan 12 2012 1:29PM
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