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Conforming 30p to 24p

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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,840
I'm using a PC, and I'm trying to figure out how to conform 30p to 24p in order to get some subtle slow motion. I understand that all the mac users just use cinema tools, but I don't have that option. Should I just put the clips on the premiere timeline at 80% and render in 24P or there an option to conform them first. I have streamclip, but I can only get it to drop frames, not slow down the footage.
Jul 6 2011 10:27PM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
unless premiere works differently than fcp, that won't work because all it will be doing is slowing the clip down to 80% by doing frame duplicating shit. what you want it to do is play 30 unique frames (no duplicates), but take 1.2 seconds to play all those frames instead of 1 second. i think you can do it in after effects but i'm not sure how one would do that
Jul 6 2011 10:47PM
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eheath
Posts: 61683 - Karma: 123,905
This wont work, like will said, because you will render it to be 24p and then slowing it down will look worse. Now, a 30p shot in a 30p timeline CAN be slowed to 80% and have it still look smooth since that changes it to "24p" speed, but less than that doesn't really work.

You should be able to conform with a program for PC, i am not aware of one though, im sure someone on here will know thought.
Jul 6 2011 11:06PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,840
so a quick solution would be to use a 30p timeline, slow the clips to 80%, and to then render the project in 30p?
Jul 7 2011 12:26AM
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WillStart
Posts: 3955 - Karma: 3,192
interesting, i was not aware of that. makes sense though
Jul 7 2011 12:31AM
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eheath
Posts: 61683 - Karma: 123,905
its the same concept with a 60p timeline and being able to slow down to 40%. When footage starts to look bad is when your mind cant perceive the motion of the video anymore, which is when the frame rate drops below 24fps. So, for instance, in a 60p timeline with 60p footage, you can slow it down to say 60% and its at about 36fps movement, so it still looks smooth. Although, with 60p i never go below 50% you could technically go to 40% but you might as well conform your clips at that point.
Jul 7 2011 12:39AM
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mBall
Posts: 1690 - Karma: 2,827
so with 60p footage in a 60p timeline slowed to 40%, would you render it in 60 or 24?
Jul 7 2011 5:10AM
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GreenHorn
Posts: 4896 - Karma: 1,209
do you guys know of a program to use instead of cinema tools? or some other way to do it? i have fcp but not cinema tools and am not sure how to conform my footage
Jul 7 2011 6:57AM
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eheath
Posts: 61683 - Karma: 123,905
no no, it would still be a 60p timeline but since the brain can comprehend motion down to 24fps, 60p at 40% technically should work. Then, when you compress it, you can change it to 24p or just upload it 60p and youtube/vimeo/ns converts it to 24p flash video.
Jul 7 2011 2:15PM
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mBall
Posts: 1690 - Karma: 2,827
I dont quite follow... I know that the brain can comprehend motion down to 24fps. So why would 60p slowed down to 40% in a 60p timeline be any different than conforming really?

If you rendered (i assume thats what you mean by compress) at 24p in a 60p timeline wouldnt it utilize the 24fps (from the slowed down 60p 40%) making it virtually the same as conforming 60p to 24p?
Jul 7 2011 4:29PM
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eheath
Posts: 61683 - Karma: 123,905
well yeah 60P at 40% would be conforming it to 24p basically, conforming would look better, i was just making an example.

As for the second part, what your editor does when you put a 60p clip into a 24p timeline, it drops 36 frames to make it 24p, not 60p. It doesn't hold the frame rate unless you are in a 60p timline. so you cant just drop it in and slow it down because it turns into 24fps and so slowing that down at all would look bad.
Jul 7 2011 4:44PM
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mBall
Posts: 1690 - Karma: 2,827
Yeah i got the second part. So if you slow down 60p 40% in a 60p timeline, would you still have to render it in 60p, or would it be fine to render it in 24? Specifically if you have 40% clips and normal clips and you want it all to come out in 24....
Jul 7 2011 4:56PM
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eheath
Posts: 61683 - Karma: 123,905
it would still be "60p" because you're using a 60p time line. The reason it will still look smooth is because its the equivalent of 24fps so your mind still sees motion. Now, if you want the time line to be 24p you need to conform it from 60p OR you can slow it down how you want in a 60p timeline, then export it and drop the exported clip into the 24p timeline and fcp will drop 36 frames for you.
Jul 7 2011 5:01PM
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mBall
Posts: 1690 - Karma: 2,827
Okay. Can fcp not export a different frame rate then the timeline? Because with Vegas you can have a 60p timeline but still export in any framerate you like...
Jul 7 2011 5:14PM
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eheath
Posts: 61683 - Karma: 123,905
oh well, yes you can do that. i usually don't bother because i do full quality export then compress in quicktimepro and then vimeo/youtube/ns changes it to 24 or 30 fps.
Jul 7 2011 5:20PM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
Im pretty sure everyone in this thread uses FCP, so as a CS5 user I will chime in. In premiere cs5, if you put 30p or 60p in a 24p timeline and make the clip 80% (for 30p) or 40% (for 60p), YOU WILL GET SMOOTH SLOW MOTION. I have also tried this in FCP and it is not the case. Another reason why *in my opinion* Premiere>FCP.

This was all shot in 60p and slowed down 40% as described above:

Jul 7 2011 5:40PM
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erikK
Posts: 3245 - Karma: 2,329
^ So I take it that putting 30p footage into a 24p timeline and then slowing down the footage 20% is BETTER than just putting the 30p footage in a 30p timeline and slowing it down 20%? That's how I took your post, correct me if I'm wrong.
Jul 7 2011 6:13PM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
Correct. And if you put 60p into a 24p timeline, slow it down 60%.

30 x 0.8 = 24

60 x 0.4 = 24
Jul 7 2011 6:22PM
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erikK
Posts: 3245 - Karma: 2,329
Hm, I'll have to try that. I never knew it would make a difference since 30p slowed down 20% is 24p, which is smooth to human eyes anyway. Thanks man!
Jul 7 2011 7:11PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
buy a mac. problem solved!
Jul 7 2011 10:28PM
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erikK
Posts: 3245 - Karma: 2,329
I was using FCE on my school's computer and didn't like it too much, but that was when I used vegas so maybe i would like it more now that I use premiere. I just don't see why so many people want macs just for FC though
Jul 7 2011 11:24PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
Final cut's pretty straight forward once you learn how the interface works and its much more manual than premiere.
Jul 7 2011 11:39PM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
Click for larger image
Jul 8 2011 12:07AM
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ripper_shredder
Posts: 243 - Karma: 45
sure bud
Jul 8 2011 5:53PM
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