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Mexican gangs threaten to behead DEA agents

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Snowgoner
Posts: 5047 - Karma: 968
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/01/national/main20076278.shtml
14 years ago
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deleted2
Posts: 958 - Karma: 107
The DEA is the biggest joke ever it wouldn't be a war on drugs if they didn't start it..... And not to mention, according to our constitution and what our forefathers said, personal possession of anything should be legal, hence, George Washington grew hemp, "Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country." Thats from Thomas Jefferson, also, whoever said we kicked Germany's ass in WWII is a dumbass, if it weren't for the USSR then we wouldnt have won WWII, and we still haven't won NATO. Just get over your stupid as fuck, ignorant, America Fuck yeah attitudes. And did i say the DEA is stupid as fuck.

14 years ago
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Lil_Crit
Posts: 79 - Karma: 13
Good. The DEA should have never been conceived, it is a giant waste of money and resources used for something that never will be stopped
14 years ago
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Darth_Veeder
Posts: 1054 - Karma: -26
>Implying NATO is a battle and not a supranational organization.
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
Drug use and exchange will never be stopped, but that does not mean it should not be controlled or made legal.

I think you will be hard pressed to find a (good) sincere argument for the legalization of heroine or cocaine.

Also it is important to think about where those drugs come from (legal or not) and who benefits from their sale. Currently much of the cocaine products come from Central and South America, where their production is heavily controlled by large drug cartels. Most of the heroin in the world comes from Afghanistan, where it is controlled by the Taliban. Neither the Taliban or the drug cartels would give up their control of these drugs if they became legal, the only thing that would change is how they transport and distribute the drugs. If you legalize heroine, you will increase cash flow to the Taliban, and like wise with cocaine and the SA and CA drug cartels. I do not believe that either of these is in the best interest of the United States, Canada, or any other developed western democracy.

The DEA operates outside of the U.S. as well as inside the U.S. DEA team are engaging and destroying Taliban controlled poppy fields in Afghanistan, as well as fighting the drug cartels both in the U.S. and in SA.
14 years ago
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Ski303
Posts: 468 - Karma: 22
fuck europeans
14 years ago
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1773 - Karma: 2,968
wtf are you talking about? do you really think that taking action against the violent drug cartels that have pillaged and raped mexico will eliminate the latino vote? i think you seriously underestimate the intelligence of latino citizens.

and before we think about ANOTHER military action we should just legalize. lower the human cost, lower the monetary cost, and save america from being the world police.
14 years ago
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Lax_Bro40
Posts: 5166 - Karma: 18
What about the DEA teams fighting in Afghanistan? Are they a joke to? Trained by Special Operations teams to fight the opium problem? They must be huge jokes. What you also don't understand is when an American is taken hostage, its not the DEA you have to worry about. Remember when the Somali pirates took that ship cpt. hostage? Navy Seals dealt with it. And I would be willing to bet my ball sack that the 7th Special Forces Group already has guys on the ground in Mexico.
14 years ago
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,537
It took a navy seal team to kill Pablo Escobar basically putting a major halt to the Colombian/American cocaine trade. So yeah they'll lose. They aren't close to what Pablo was.
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
The Zetas are incredibly formable, I would not underestimate them. While a highly trained U.S. JSOC combat team will be more then a match for them in a fire fight, the drug war is about much more then that. The Zetas are masters of unconventional warfare, and they were taught by the best. They are thoughtfully organized and well protected.

That said, well organized police work, backed with strong intelligence can produce results:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2011/07/201174191048378110.html
14 years ago
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Lax_Bro40
Posts: 5166 - Karma: 18
I think any SFG the army has to offer are more highly trained in unconventional warfare.
14 years ago
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
THIS THIS THIS

if they would just legalize marijuana the drug cartels would have no buyers for their product and would fizzle out. either that or they would go to selling all cocaine and opiates, but the market for those are so much smaller than marijuana it would run then out of business regardless.

legalize marijuana and the drug cartels will fizzle out and die. pretty simple concept really..

14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
Your ability to only see things on such a basic level, with no ability to comprehend 2nd tier effects would amaze me if you had not previously proved your intelligence is in the far left hand side of the bell curve.
14 years ago
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
explain your interpretation of these second tier effects
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
The drug cartels control production of most drugs, including the majority of marijuana, legalizing it does not put them out of business.
14 years ago
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knows_butter
Posts: 477 - Karma: 32
I would like to hear your reasoning on this point. I'm not being condescending, just curious.
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
The Taliban has a monopoly on Heroine production. They single handedly control and tax the best poppy fields in the world, and more heroine and opium production then the rest of the world combined. The DEA is currently involved in aggressively attacking and destroying the Taliban drug business at its roots, in Afghanistan.

If you open up heroine or other opiates to legal use, and pull the DEA off the Taliban, you will both increase the demand for these drugs, while making it easier for the Taliban to compete against smaller producers.

Same goes for drug cartels in Latin America, with regards to cocaine and marijuana. The Latin American drug cartels also control a significant amount of the large scale marijuana grow operations inside the U.S. boarder. DEA teams go after these grow operations as well, not so much to destroy marijuana and keep it from users, but to hurt the cash flow to the cartels.
14 years ago
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
damn the taliban is responsible for all heroines? what the fuck i thought wonder woman was on our side
14 years ago
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knows_butter
Posts: 477 - Karma: 32
I have a differing opinion. Not saying I'm right, just my thoughts:

In the hypothetical situation herione is legal in the US, the govt will put sanctions on Afghani (probably all middle eastern) herione/derivatives. The US Govt obviously knows the Taliban is in control and of course they will not allow any trade that puts a single cent in their back pocket. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they only made it illegal to sell herione produced anywhere other than the US.

Open herione production up to leading scientists/entrepreneurs in the States and I'm certain they will find more efficient/productive ways of making it than a bunch of starving arabs in the desert can do now.

Same goes for weed. Legalise weed and the free market will produce the dankest shit for not much more than the cost of tobacco. Say goodbye to Mexico's drug industry.

14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
How much U.S. farm land should be diverted from food crops for poppy/heroine production?

The Afghan climate has shown itself to be remarkably hospitable for poppy plants (about the only thing that fuck hole is hospitable for), the Taliban would continue to provide massive amounts of heroine to the world, which would hurt the price U.S. poppy farmers could hope to get.
14 years ago
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Pee_and_Ski
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 57
it is not a good time to be a cop in mexico
14 years ago
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
You guys also lost it from an operational sense, like Operation Rolling Thunder and the Battle of La Drang
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
Early on in the war when GEN Westmorland was attempting to use big war tactics against the NVA and VC and lure them into firefights while at the same time limiting Rolling Thunder to purely military targets we were loosing.

In the 70's however, when NV civilian and strategic targets were opened up to bombing, while the Marine CAP teams, and 5th SFG ODA's made significant progress in counter insurgency, saw a swing the the favor of the U.S. and RVN. The Viet Cong had been almost completely eliminated, and the NVA was hurting on supplies while being forced to give up guerrilla tactics. The RVN forces were pushing the NVA back, while U.S. forces downsized under mounting political pressure. When U.S. forces had left the country the RVN leadership started cutting military supplies to fatten their own wallet and the RVN forces were left with out enough supplies to withstand the last NVA offensive. The war in Vietnam could have been won, if the American People had stayed in it. GEN Westmoreland's strategy of attrition however, backfired, and the American People lost the will to fight before the NV people (who's opinion did not matter as they were in a communist country)
14 years ago
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Mass aerial bombardment was essentially useless in all facets of the Vietnam War, I cant believe they never caught on to that.
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
Once the started bombing Hanoi, and it's harbor, the NVA suffered heavily. It is also unknown how much supplies would have flowed down the Ho chi min trail had they not had to rebuild it every day.
14 years ago
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
It also did for the French when they leveled Haiphong 20 years prior in a naval bombardment, it still didn't hinder the Vietminh to an extent they hoped it would. Just like Haiphong, Hanoi did hinder the NVA in a logistical sense but it still didn't stop the NVA from launching Tet. The bombings in the North and surrounding area of Hanoi proved to be an even greater waste as there was nothing to bomb nor destroy.
14 years ago
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MilfHunter777
Posts: 248 - Karma: 31
Breaking Bad type shit right thurr
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
Tet was a disaster for the NVA.
14 years ago
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Bukkakeskitrip
Posts: 5677 - Karma: 95
herp derp
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
good. im rooting for the mexicans. they have no money and america sends tons of money to employ mexican police in mexico to fight the cartels, and this has literally become a us government funded mexican civil war. more mexicans are dying than us soldiers in the middle east by like 10 times, and i hope the mexicans chop off as many dea agents heads as they can. i have much more sympathy for a cartel member trying to make a buck than i do for a dea agent who wants to police another nation. put it this way if a mexican dea agent had the balls to come to my country and fuck with me, id chop his head off too.
14 years ago
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
this is true under the current system. If marijuana was legalized, grown, and regulated in the united states, the drug cartel would have no one to unload their product on in this country. which is a high majority of their clientele i assume. thats also assuming that if it was legalized, the price of legalized product would be below the price of the current black market. if it was at par of above current black market prices, then it wouldnt do anything to the cartels or affect them in anyways. the key is to undercut them and create a monopoly in the united states that the cartels cant overcome. therefore forcing them to move onto other drugs to stay in business.
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
and yeah if you legalized drugs, all the killing would stop, and all the cartels would go broke and eventually dissolve, but that would be too smart of a thing to do for someone like mr obama
14 years ago
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Bukkakeskitrip
Posts: 5677 - Karma: 95
next step - follow Portugals suit for an entire abolishment of drugs from the black market.
14 years ago
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
And also a PR disaster for the USA.
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
the drug war is almost as fucking stupid as the kids who od and their parents who blame the drugs and not the stupidity of their own kids......very harsh but true...i know people that are addicted to nicotine, but where is the nicotine epidemic???? People die from drinking alcohol... OMG PEOPLE DIE FROM ALCOHOL WE HAVE TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL OMG... haha fuck this stupid country
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
and yeah i think for a force like the dea that rushes into peoples houses and SHOOTS THEIR FUCKING PET DOGS, they probly will be fine with a few of their members getting their heads chopped off...
14 years ago
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
I dont know who is worse, John Stossel or you
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
and doworkson, you dont get it.
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
and doworkson, you dont get it. If you are a mexican who has no food and no money, and i hand you an ak47 and 1000 bucks, you will fight for me. As long as drugs are illegal, there will be huge profits to be made, and the cartels will continue to have billions of dollars to hire EVERY LAST POOR MEXICAN in their whole country to fight for them. the cartels are indestructible... Good lord i cant believe how stupid some people are that they think you can stop supply and demand...
14 years ago
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
i could put in my lengthy opinion to all of this here, but arguing about the war on drugs never gets anywhere
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
^its true its like trying to convince people that the world is round...
14 years ago
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bobby.brown
Posts: 199 - Karma: 11
proletariate, whats your problem? all i said is if your kid ods on alcohol, you wont be hunting down jack daniels will you... so if he ods on drugs, dont balme anybody but yourself. Americans love shifting blame...
14 years ago
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
We should annex Mexico. Who's down?
14 years ago
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
eh all you'd have to do is marijuana.

oh and btw its worked wonders for portugal (although their economy, population, and demographic is much different that the US, so it could have different results if put into effect here. but you never know until it has been tried, speculate all you want)
14 years ago
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
id also be interested in hearing cobra commanders response to my comment since i responded to his. i enjoy debating.
14 years ago
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Bukkakeskitrip
Posts: 5677 - Karma: 95
um, what? legalizing only marijuana would stop illegal manufacturing/distribution of all other drugs? and yes i know it has....that's why i brought it up. i support the idea..
14 years ago
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midwestpowhunter
Posts: 2198 - Karma: 189
legalize drugs then all americans go to the border and point and laugh as all those dirt bag cartels go back to kidnapping and then they find out that in an effort to ruin their lives, all americans boycot going to mexico. within a few weeks they wont have drugs to run or people to steal so they will go back to migrant work. it will be like the housing bubble of mexico. ballin out of control one day, stugglin the next. thats how you win the war on drugs. oh ya and as far as border crossing.... just set up 25000 sentry guns and everyone go on vacation. jk the last part....
14 years ago
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
OMG if they just legalized weed for like 7 year olds to smoke the world would be ok overnight.  GAWD, the DEA is SO STUPID!!!111!1!!!!eleven
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
The drug cartels would still have a monopoly on production, just because it is legal does not mean they would get out of it. The vast majority of production level grow ops in the U.S. are run by South American drug cartels. Once marijuana (which I assume you are talking about) becomes legal, the cartels would just switch distribution methods, and still unload their product (often grown in the U.S.), just using legal channels.

For another producer to compete with the cartels (who would still be competing against each other) they would have to find a suitable climate and land for growing, to do this they would have to give up producing another crop, one which they can currently a government subsidy for, even if they export it. Even if an new comer was to attempt to break into the marijuana production, there is nothing to suggest that the current big players (cartels) would not use less then legal means to harass the new producers.
14 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
I can not believe you are saying something has worked wonders for portugal (and included the economy) right now. Portugal is right next to Greece when it comes to shattered economies. Their GDP to government spending ration is terrible, if portugal wants to get out of this in one piece they are going to need to cut spending severely. Unfortunately with their current high tax rates, and high level of government involvement, the private sector is hamstrung and will be hard put to pull them out on their own. It is going to be a hard few years for the people of Portugal.

That said, I am for the legalization (or at least decriminalization) of marijuana at the federal level (I would expect states to follow, especially many of the western states, with budget problems). I just think many of the programs Portugal implemented were unnecessary and utopian in design.
14 years ago
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
how could they switch channels and unload it legally if the US only produced it though goverment run facilities and by goverment workers at below back market prices? example: the oakland hydro grow house. its a 100% goverment funded and employed grow operation. The workers are paid just like other stateworkers are, and everything they put into the plant and take off of them are carefully written down and regulated. if they even put a drop of fertilizer in a plant it has to be written down and accounted for. same goes for how much they harvest.

and when you say  suitable climate and land, they wouldnt have to worry about that. Its called hydro. all over the country in every single city there are abandoned warehouses everywhere. the recession has hit many businesses hard and forced them to shut down factories and warehouses all over the united states. The goverment could take these warehouses, turn them into legal, secure, and highly regulated grow operations. It would put 1000's of people back to work and would create not only new jobs, but revenue for the economy to get back on its feet. Similar to how they started building a lot of things after the depression(dams, bridges, roads, ect..) they could create a similar program with the legalization and production of marijuana. These warehouses would be goverment buildings with security, and all the other legal measures that come with a goverment building. Also with it being indoor hydro facilities, production could continue year around 265 days a year in any climate in any city. it would just be one big outdoor crop in the fall like the cartels do.
i know personally if i got pay and benefits like a normal state worker, and my job was to grow and regulate the production of marijuana in a warehouse i would be all over it. its not that hard of a job.
14 years ago
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