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What if time is completely relative to its observer & 100% internal

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Shredability
Posts: 2756 - Karma: 501
If an hour passes, some people or animals may feel like its fifty five minuets and some may feel like its one hour and five minuets. No one will ever know how long time actually travels because its an internal feeling, sure you can use a clock but to one observer the second hand ticks every .09 seconds and to another it takes 1.01 seconds, this being an internal feeling. For humans the time we feel may be less extreme because its not noticeable (people operating at flash speed), but for animals their internal time might be far faster or slower. I thought of this while walking home and seeing a humming bird, the little thing operated at such a high speed, but not just the wings flapping (12-90 per second) because that may be a spastic muscle reflex, but the way the bird did everything looking around for nectar & rotating its head.

Thoughts?
Jun 12 2011 1:17AM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Does the hallway still exist when your door is closed?
Jun 12 2011 1:22AM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Allow me to elaborate

Time is the 4th dimension and therefore one of the most real things in the universe. To assume time is not real, one must assume that basically everything is not real. However that is very arguable. Does the hallway still exist when your door is closed?

Of course "Time" itself is simply a word, a representation of a concept. But the concept it represents is one of the basic fabrics of existence.
Jun 12 2011 1:23AM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Time: The indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.
Jun 12 2011 1:24AM
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[evan]
Posts: 5628 - Karma: 117
^What if you used a glass door?
Jun 12 2011 1:31AM
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Shredability
Posts: 2756 - Karma: 501
But that's not saying that individuals can't react to the passing of time in a different way, our own perception. Time is liner like I said in the op, but it can be perceived differently
Jun 12 2011 1:31AM
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
i have a question regarding this topic.

would time exist if there were no clocks or sundials in the entire world? or would it require the termination of everyone who has previous knowledge of time?
Jun 12 2011 1:31AM
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Shredability
Posts: 2756 - Karma: 501
Your talking about "the time" not "time", time would still pass because it has and will for a infinite period. "the time" is based on the position of the sun around the earth
Jun 12 2011 1:34AM
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Get.Kronk
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 226
And even then , the time would still exist as long as the sun rises and sets.
Jun 12 2011 1:36AM
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emilyiscool
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 60
i get what hes saying pretty much whos to say in someone elses head a second is longer for one person than another. we have no way of communicating or figuring that out because the mesurements are based on our own perception the same way you would have no way of knowing if you are seeing the same colours as someone else
Jun 12 2011 1:38AM
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hellyeaaaah
Posts: 640 - Karma: 8
shit just got real
Jun 12 2011 1:39AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
I wonder if sloths feel that they are moving super fast in their own minds....
Jun 12 2011 1:43AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
well thats all relative.

We run 10mph and think it's fast. We drive 90mph and think it's fast. We fly 700mph and think it's fast.

Jun 12 2011 1:51AM
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Shredability
Posts: 2756 - Karma: 501
Yea, that's what I'm trying to say.
Jun 12 2011 1:55AM
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e.wait
Posts: 869 - Karma: 1,954
Due to their extremely fast reaction speed, time may, in a way, move slower for a fly (at least according to what they perceive). What I mean by this is that, because they are able to react so quickly, less time is spent processing information, therefore the reactions of animals such as humans seem slow to them (in comparison to their own reaction speed). So I suppose that what you are saying may hold some truth. Time is a constant, if it wasn't, then physics textbooks would need to be rewritten and basically every theory/law regarding our universe would no longer make sense.

But I'm pretty sure what you just described is the saying "time flies when you're having fun." For someone who has trouble focusing, time may SEEM to move slower, but the world for them is moving at the same pace as it would be for you.
Jun 12 2011 1:57AM
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PilleDaKid
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 2,629
How fast time seems to be passing depends on what you're doing. If your sleeping, eight hours can feel like seconds. But if you're getting raped in the bung, one minute is going to feel like a lifetime. I've heard that right before you die a chemical gets released causing time to essentially feel like its not moving.
Jun 12 2011 1:59AM
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
yeah your brain releases a few chemical like nano seconds before you brain shuts down when you die. its a defense last ditch survival mechanism for your body. pretty interesting stuff
Jun 12 2011 2:06AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
True, but I wonder if they feel like they are moving at the same pace as say we would normally move as humans in their own minds.

Sloths have 1/4 the reaction time as humans. Maybe all of this is relative to how they perceive time. Maybe in their world, a minute in our time 15 seconds in their mind....
Jun 12 2011 2:07AM
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,537
TIME IS REAL. CLOCKS, SUNDIALS, AND WATCHES ARE TIME MEASURING DEVICES. DAY AND NIGHT ARE THE ORIGINAL TIME MEASURING DEVICES. TIME IS REAL. however time can be sensed differently in a sense that however much info your brain processes will create lags or expedites in time. examples.
1.you got a new job You're driving in a car on a new road in a new state in a new town to your new job. You're brain is processing a whole new landscape different sounds sights smells. The hour long drive will seem longer because your brain is processing a shit load of info.
now you're on that same road a year later you've driven it every morning you've seen the landscape hear the noises smelt the smells heard the sounds day after day that hour long drive now feels like it takes 15 minutes. at the end of those three years working that job you find yourself at work in a post sleep haze saying to yourself wow how the fuck did i get to work i just spaced out the whole drive. thats perception of time.

2. You're a baby same deal whole new world experiencing sensation overload. remember summer in your childhood. they were so fucking long and the school year was never ending. now as a teenager you say at the end of every school year "fuck that went by fast" and your parents will tell you it only gets faster. same thing as the drive your perception of time is off due to the lack of the brain processing information.

an to the guy who said you go into your room shut the door does the world exist outside of that room. assuming there are no windows or cameras hooked up to a tv in your room does the world exist outside of that room. the answer is its unprovable even though we are all aware it is existing outside of the room we cannot prove it or validate that the world exists outside of our room.

all in all time exists and is universal. the day, clock, sundial, and watch are just ways to measure an earth day. And even though we measure the length of the universe in earth time as in the universe was created 14 billion years ago (or whatever the figure is im not totally sure.) if we met another intelligent being they would say the universe is 10,000 klaxons long. its the same amount of time in different measurements. time is universal. boom
Jun 12 2011 2:20AM
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PhilboydStudge
Posts: 3431 - Karma: 206
Yep, DMT sounds awesome. When you hear stories of people in near-death experiences who saw their life flash in front of them or some other vision, don't dismiss that. There's a good chance that they did see that, for their brain thought they were going to die and released DMT, causing them to see things that may have felt like a very long time in just a second.

All of this stuff is mind numbing though, I don't really like to think about any of this unless I'm tripping, and then it's the best time in the world.
Jun 12 2011 2:24AM
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Deezy
Posts: 4580 - Karma: 1,004
heres something ive been thinking about... when you die.
this is actually kinda legit.
when you are living... how do you work? its all your brain right? so how does that work? the cells and electricty. therefore life=the cells in your brain and death is those cells when they stop working.

so everything gets turned into an electric signal and sent to your brain. your brain does it all.
when you read, its your eyes to an electric signal and your brain reads that.
when you listen, its your ears that turn the sound waves into electric impulses and to your brain they go.

when you are dreaming its the same thing. just your brain is making up all the external impulses... how do you know you are not in a dream right now and your brain isnt just making things up... you dont know.

when you die those stop. correct?
time stops, your vision stops, your taste stops, your feeling stops, your emotions stop, everything stops.

when you die its like when you fall asleep and not dream. you dont previeve anything. the cells just stop working and everything stops.

now when you die. wtf happens to the rest of the world. you cant compaire yourself to everyone else because you could be making them up in your "dream" its a real fucked thing to think about.

when you get baked its just THC fucking with your brain and everything gets changed. your eating habbits, your emotions, etc

so now when you think of life and things that are happening, like reading this... its just your brain getting electric impulses and putting it all together up there in your head.

im just kinda going off here. so ill stop now. hope you guys get what im trying to say....

Jun 12 2011 2:34AM
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Bloom.
Posts: 3538 - Karma: 13,249
Everything we experience is subjective.  The physical universe exists as it is, while us and other life forms use our perceptions to experience and rationalize everything internally and externally. In that sense, everything we experience is going to depend on how we interpret it. Time doesn't exist in the physical universe. Time exists in our subjective experience of the universe. Billions of years may seem like a really long time to us, but as I said its all subjective so some other life form capable of experiencing and percieving the universe may see billions of years as minutes.
Jun 12 2011 2:37AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
my face just melted.
Jun 12 2011 2:41AM
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SenorVaca
Posts: 246 - Karma: 25
This theory would explain how people have different reflex times, would it not?
Jun 12 2011 2:46AM
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Travapple.
Posts: 6787 - Karma: 88
What if time is not linear ie wormholes???? timetravel?
Jun 12 2011 3:15AM
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PilleDaKid
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 2,629
I've also heard that if you've done DMT that when you die the chemical doesn't get released and you die an extremely painful death. Obviously nobody can confirm this but that would suck. I want to be just chilling tripping on DMT when I die...
Jun 12 2011 10:32AM
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egg.
Posts: 3231 - Karma: 3,477
this entire thread hearts my head way too much
Jun 12 2011 10:37AM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
Is everyone in this thread high or what?











Time exists (at least on a macroscopic level), but it is relative to the observer.
Jun 12 2011 11:44AM
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*Dos*Planker*
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 168
its definitely an interesting concept
Jun 12 2011 11:48AM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
what if the thinkers cult was still active?
Jun 12 2011 11:57AM
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sammy_
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 467
makes you think in a different way....i like it
Jun 12 2011 11:58AM
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corona
Posts: 12791 - Karma: 32,701
this is what I hate about you Athiests. You start over-complicating the simplest things such as time. Time is what God wants it to be; he created a linear reality for us to live in. It's not constantly changing and perceived different. It's just another of God's forces, like the tides or winds.
Jun 12 2011 11:58AM
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Relish_man
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 551
that's why all the girls say i can't last in the bed when in my head im a fucking champ
Jun 12 2011 12:17PM
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saranac_tortex
Posts: 518 - Karma: 14
lol
Jun 12 2011 12:37PM
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Travapple.
Posts: 6787 - Karma: 88
i really really hope this is a troll.
Jun 12 2011 12:45PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Lol fortunately you're right! Time doesn't actually exist, its just an imaginary quantity that we made to keep track of things. Cosmologists measure time using doppler shifts, completely urelated to what we think of as time. The most accurate clocks we make to keep track of time don't tap into some mysterious time flow to check the time, they use atomic decay and electron spins flips (I think?), but they're not measuring time based off of "time" so to speak.
Jun 12 2011 12:47PM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
lrn2 Descartes.


Also, what do you mean by real? What do you mean by exist?


Also, your last comment is retarded.








TIME = POSITIVE ENTROPY?
Jun 12 2011 12:48PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
THIS. Thats what I was trying to say.
Jun 12 2011 1:17PM
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.jersey
Posts: 1925 - Karma: 9
threads for when i want to get mind fucked in the future
Jun 12 2011 1:41PM
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BIGben*
Posts: 1942 - Karma: 8
If i hide my face with my hand is my head gone? Peekaboo.
Jun 12 2011 1:55PM
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broto
Posts: 9039 - Karma: 25,662
i always think of this when i'm trying to swat flies (which is all the time in the summer). even when the fly swatter reaches the spot where the fly is in a fraction of a second, it still somehow manages to just barely fly out of the way in time. any other animal would have been caught underneath the fly trap. say it was a human hand. there is no way a human could react that fast. an explanation is the fly's brain processes things much faster and time goes slower. they see the fly swatter coming in at a slower speed and are able to easily just out of the way.
Jun 12 2011 2:23PM
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Mt_P0wDerJuNkIe
Posts: 1506 - Karma: 58
Time is not constant. Time changes with your position in a certain gravity field or your speed relative to the speed of light.
Jun 12 2011 2:32PM
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son
Posts: 55 - Karma: 12
*in fetal position* theres no such thing as niggers, theres no such thing as niggers!
Jun 12 2011 2:49PM
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EasyEast
Posts: 1983 - Karma: 118

you mean hurts?

and this thread deff has some interesting concepts it reminds me of stuff my physics teacher used to talk about, it really makes you think

Jun 12 2011 2:56PM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
Time actually does exist ... it can be sped up or slowed down depending on gravity and your traveling speed, so how is that possible and how can it change if it doesn't exist ?
Jun 12 2011 2:58PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
time is derived from the speed of light, which is constant under normal circumstances. The passage of time is relative to the observer, as you get closer to the speed of light outside objects appear to move slower. Since there is a constant value you are measuring relative time to, you can do the math and determine the actual time if two animals are observing something at different relative times. KNAWAMSAYANNNN mah nigguz?
Jun 12 2011 2:59PM
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Dwarftosser1
Posts: 2602 - Karma: 951
Cogito Ergo Sum
Jun 12 2011 3:04PM
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
is it that their perception if time is slower, or is it just them exercising their ability to move that quickly?
Jun 12 2011 3:22PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
time is relative...and the universe is nothing without observers, so yeah your statement is pretty obviously right haha. you want to go into the physics of it look up string theory.

What really fucks me over is how 3-d space isn't really 3-d...and we live in a world that looks like it was programmed like a computer game using mathematical principles...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
In a larger and more speculative sense, the theory suggests that the entire universe can be seen as a two-dimensional information structure "painted" on the cosmological horizon, such that the three dimensions we observe are only an effective description at macroscopic scales and at low energies. Cosmological holography has not been made mathematically precise, partly because the cosmological horizon has a finite area and grows with time.[4][5]

We don't know SHIT about the nature of time and our universe because we simply don't have the technology to analyze the lowest and highest energy frequencies.

STRING THEORY? THE ANSWER TO RELATIVITY AND SHIT? Maybe. lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory

I hate wikipedia but this is pretty accurate. My astrophysics professor told me that it was accurate enough to get some basic knowledge about this subject.
learn your shit then come back maybe you'll see how half-baked some of your thoughts are. Hell, what I posted is half-baked in itself. I try to keep an open mind but man, this makes sense to me...

oh, and brodski, about your idea of how the brain sees your life flash before your eyes as you die...I've had that experience and I got very interested in near-death brain activity and it turns out that the natural process of death makes your brain turn to the last survival tactics it has, and that is scanning your whole memory for a way to get out of the situation you're in, even prenatal memory (just a hypothesis for that part though). I'll be back for this thread later. Relativity is definitely an interesting subject.
Jun 12 2011 3:37PM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3577241


"IGUSs also carry something called a 'schema', which is a generalised model of our perception of our environment. It holds several rules about what is best to do and what is not a good idea to do. The information we receive from our surroundings is passed to the schema to determine how we react in certain situations. The decision is conscious, but we also do unconscious computation of information: the schema is updated unconsciously. The conscious part of the IGUS in humans focuses on the input register, which we call the present. The unconscious part focuses on information in the memories, and we call that the past. This is why we consciously experience the present and remember the past.

The movement of the information through the IGUSs registers creates the illusion of the flow of time. It is not time itself that flows. Each IGUS has a different speed for the flow of its information between registers. This corresponds to differences between the perception of the speed of the flow of time. Flies, for example, need to process more information per second in order to fly so quickly but still avoid common obstacles; therefore, they perceive time as going slower. To us, a fly's perception of time would look like slow motion. Flies only live for a few days, or a few weeks as a maximum, and to a human, this is a very short lifetime. But to a fly, this feels a lot longer."




Google ftw
Jun 12 2011 3:40PM
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RIP_leos_shack
Posts: 710 - Karma: 3,200
Fuck I was just about to say that, but you beat me to it.

Taking an average fly's lifespan at 10 days and an average human's lifespan at 80 years, as a proportion of lifespans, the 1 second that it takes you to swat a fly is equivalent to 48.7 minutes from the human perspective.
Jun 12 2011 4:21PM
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